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More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.


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Primrose Colliery being at Pontardawe, their wagons would have reached Malvern by the Midland route via Brecon, Hay and Hereford. Too far south for my immediate interests but of course if they got as far as Malvern that's not to say they would not have had customers in the West Midlands. According to POWSides, their wagons were black, white lettering shaded red. Perhaps primrose-tinted spectacles are required!

 

Now which direction did the Malvern Gas Works wagons come from?

 

Primrose owned a few collieries around Pontardawe. The history of the company is complex and pre-dates the Swansea Vale Railway, coal initially being moved to the Swansea Canal. Primrose also opened a "large" colliery alongside Ynisygeinon sidings - known as Tareni Gleison. Large in Swansea Valley terms only, compared with those further east in Wales and most English collieries, it was no more than medium size. It opened in 1903 and was sold in 1928 to the Mond company who wanted to use the coal for their zinc smelter at Clydach on Tawe. Closure came in 1949. The Primrose company sold off most of their other collieries to finance the sinking of Tareni (this is the short name by which it is normally called). POWsides do a Tareni wagon which covers the period when the pit was owned by Monds.

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Reverting briefly to the GWR 4-plank diversion, here's one I did earlier – much earlier – before the consensus on 'Red vs Grey'  came down in favour of red, but I can't face repainting all of them. This one is the ubiquitous Coopercraft moulding with sprung axleguards and etched brake levers. I must get round to adding some couplings...

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So moving up to S7 then are we?

 

I find the larger scale is usually more impressive at exhibitions. For home use, I'm happy with 4 mm scale. There's room for the trains to go round and round...

 

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Reverting briefly to the GWR 4-plank diversion, here's one I did earlier – much earlier – before the consensus on 'Red vs Grey'  came down in favour of red, but I can't face repainting all of them. This one is the ubiquitous Coopercraft moulding with sprung axleguards and etched brake levers. I must get round to adding some couplings...

 

It looks like you've also improved the push rod safety loops - my microstrip replacements fail to replicate the way these are formed into rectangular loops supported by a single strap. I don't think I've explained that very well; I expect only Miss Prism will understand what I mean. 

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Back to the PO wagons, and my rather inexpert hand lettering using gouache and a mapping pen. The Camerton wagon is built from much modified Slater's mouldings and long pre-dates the POWsides transfers. I might just ro-do it one of these days

 

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The Evans wagon is scratchbuilt though the brake lever came from a Ratio LNWR kit, I think.Still waiting for safety loops I see...

 

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Another scratchbuilt effort from a photo taken at Chippenham in 1902.

 

I need to build several  Timsbury Collieries wagons in the earlier, black, livery and, unable to face lettering by hand, I have commissioned POWsides to do the transfers for me (sheet ref 1013). This they have now done though I have yet to use them...

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I find the larger scale is usually more impressive at exhibitions. For home use, I'm happy with 4 mm scale. There's room for the trains to go round and round...

 

 

It looks like you've also improved the push rod safety loops - my microstrip replacements fail to replicate the way these are formed into rectangular loops supported by a single strap. I don't think I've explained that very well; I expect only Miss Prism will understand what I mean. 

 

 

I did a few other mods: axleboxes of course, squared ends to the headstocks, V-hanger support rod (or whatever it's called), made the brake shoes 'handed', but I didn't find spring buffers – probably not readily available in those days – plus basic internal details. Oh yes, I moved and redid the label holder.

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This one is the ubiquitous Coopercraft moulding with sprung axleguards and etched brake levers.

More please...  how did you do this?  whose parts?

 

Taking your own leaf from the journal that you edit, can we persuade you to write an article?  I could suggest a title...

 

"Hoisted by my own etc., etc., etc.."

 

regards, Graham

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I did a few other mods: axleboxes of course, squared ends to the headstocks, V-hanger support rod (or whatever it's called), made the brake shoes 'handed', but I didn't find spring buffers – probably not readily available in those days – plus basic internal details.

 

I didn't comment on the axleboxes and the straight rod behind the V-hanger as I'd done those myself. I'd missed the squared ends to the headstocks... Just goes to show that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

 

I do like the lettering on the PO wagons - my black-on-white method was partly founded on the belief that I'd struggle to get neat enough lettering of adequate opacity with white on black. Did you use the gouache onto gloss black paint or directly onto matt black? One of the most useful things I've learnt through comments on this thread is always to apply transfers onto a gloss surface, whether they're waterslide, pressfix, methfix or rub-down. If I was starting again with my PO sides I would try working on a gloss white rather than matt white base.

 

I just looked up the Timsbury transfers - they're designed to fit the Cambrian kit C53 for the Wheeler & Gregory wagon with the full-height door? I have one of those waiting for a purpose in life, having preferred the C74 kit with the through top plank as the starting-point for my Huntley & Palmer wagons.

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More please...  how did you do this?  whose parts?

 

Taking your own leaf from journal that you edit, can we persuade you to write an article?  I could suggest a title...

 

"Hoisted by my own etc., etc., etc.."

 

regards, Graham

 

 

Touché.

 

Those wagons are P4 but I do have a few S7 in various states of unfinishedness... Trouble is I spend so much time chasing other contributors that I don't have time to write my own.

 

For the benefit of any S7G members who may be reading this thread, the latest Newsletter has recently gone to the printers. Apologies in advance for the late arrival on your doormats.

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I didn't comment on the axleboxes and the straight rod behind the V-hanger as I'd done those myself. I'd missed the squared ends to the headstocks... Just goes to show that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

 

I do like the lettering on the PO wagons - my black-on-white method was partly founded on the belief that I'd struggle to get neat enough lettering of adequate opacity with white on black. Did you use the gouache onto gloss black paint or directly onto matt black? One of the most useful things I've learnt through comments on this thread is always to apply transfers onto a gloss surface, whether they're waterslide, pressfix, methfix or rub-down. If I was starting again with my PO sides I would try working on a gloss white rather than matt white base.

 

I just looked up the Timsbury transfers - they're designed to fit the Cambrian kit C53 for the Wheeler & Gregory wagon with the full-height door? I have one of those waiting for a purpose in life, having preferred the C74 kit with the through top plank as the starting-point for my Huntley & Palmer wagons.

 

The gouache was applied directly to the matt black paint – gives a better key for the watery paint. But I agree gloss is better for transfers.

 

The Timsbury transfers are indeed intended for the Cambrian C53 kit – you may have to juggle the transfer slightly as I seem to have got the spacing fractionally wrong! Even Homer nods... Wagons 100-149 were supplied by Wheeler & Gregory in four batches between October 1899 and 1901. The more familiar grey livery would have been applied from about 1907 onwards – so fits your timeframe rather neatly! 

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More "putting my models where my mouth is"...

 

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Another case where POWsides will come to my rescue in future. These models are mostly scratchbuilt but use bits of Cambrian or Slater's kits where possible. Brakegear, axleboxes etc from the usual sources. From memory the W-irons are Eactoscale sprung variety retro-fitted some years after the wagons were first constructed – they were built as compensated EM and converted to sprung P4. All three are lettered on one side only as even the younger me had limited patience! More missing safety loops...

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The thought occurs... unless you're following this thread on a iPad or similar, those photos on screen are larger than life size. And the models are showing their age!

 

The same is true of most of my photos - but yours are looking very good, I won't say for their age!

 

I was taken with Martin Nield's editorial in the latest MRJ No. 259 - photography is very good at revealing the inadequacies of one's models but that can cut both ways. I like to think it spurs me on to try harder!

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I will be at the NEC myself, on the Sunday, mostly on the Midland Railway Society stand - C14, near Ellerton Road.

I will take the opportunity to call by, John Miles should know where the stand is, as I believe he's in the Midland Rly Soc., 

and we are travelling with him to NEC too (aren't we, John?).

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...... And the models are showing their age!

I like to keep my wagons I did long ago as they are, if only to show how I progressed over time,

and now re-gressing as the eye start to fail me.

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Graham mentioned S7. My S7 project, one that will almost certainly never come to fruition, is the Cwmtowy Mineral Railway which ran, or would have run if anyone had had the sense to build it, from Llandovery up the Towy valley to Wales' second largest lead mine (Van was the largest – and that had a railway) at Rhandirmwyn about 7 miles north. The route would have been easy enough and might have prolonged the life of the mine which in reality closed in about 1900, though there were later reworkings of the spoil heaps.

 

If the line had been built, the CMR (slight nod to P D Hancock) could have survived at least to the early 1900s when it might have been taken over by the GWR/LNWR singly or jointly – Llandovery was a joint station – and survived a little later, not that there much other traffic apart from a bit of slate from Ystradffin and of course agricultural produce. Like the Van, my railway would have been (will be) operated by a couple of Manning Wardle tanks, and also like the Van it would have operated a vestigial passenger service. I won't bore you with the details of the backstory – suffice it to say in justification of a blatant hi-jack there will be at least one MR D299 wagon – one of the side effects of building the line would have been more trade for local merchants in Llandovery.

 

There was in that town a lady coal merchant by the name of Mary Jones – not that rare as there were quite a few lady coal merchants in the country, and about ten Mary Joneses in Llandovery c1900 – who didn't own any railway wagons but whose business could have expanded enough to warrant such a purchase. Perhaps she caught the Mine Captain's eye enough to win the contract to supply coal for the steam pumping engine at the mine. Anyway here she is

 

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and here is her first (secondhand) railway wagon...

 

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t

I will take the opportunity to call by, John Miles should know where the stand is, as I believe he's in the Midland Rly Soc., 
and we are travelling with him to NEC too (aren't we, John?).

 

Sandy

 

You are going with Tudor and we have arranged to meet at around 11.30 (traffic permitting) at the Lighmoor stand. Now we are on their author list we get 33% discount on their books and I want a Midland in Gloucestershire book. I'll definitely have a look in at the MRS stand to say hello and they have a new book out on Wigston (near your place of birth). As you can see, it's going to be an expensive day.

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.......– one of the side effects of building the line would have been more trade for local merchants in Llandovery.

There was in that town a lady coal merchant by the name of Mary Jones – not that rare as there were quite a few lady coal merchants in the country, and about ten Mary Joneses in Llandovery c1900 – who didn't own any railway wagons but whose business could have expanded enough to warrant such a purchase. Perhaps she caught the Mine Captain's eye enough to win the contract to supply coal for the steam pumping engine at the mine. Anyway here she is

 

and here is her first (secondhand) railway wagon...

 

attachicon.gifMary Jones 1.jpg

Well, I saw the name in one of the listings I have for Central Wales, it may have been in a Kelly's, but I'm thinking otherwise..

(It's been a long day working in the harbour + plus the infusion of replacement liquids) - I was seriously tempted to do a wagon like this, but now, I doff my hat to you   :no: 

Central Wales (LNWR) PO's - none colliery - are less common than hens' teeth,  though I'm aware of one from Llandilo in the 1920's (for about 3 years) in the name of Dunn, but as that photo is the subject of a forthcoming article (somewhere) I will not post the image.  I have however done a 'retro' livery for my period..... 

 

From another posting, I did make up a Carmarthen Farmers Co-operative livery PO... 

See the photo, the Evan Griffith is made up too, though they were Coal Merchants in Swansea....

 

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Well, I saw the name in one of the listings I have for Central Wales, it may have been in a Kelly's, but I'm thinking otherwise..

(It's been a long day working in the harbour + plus the infusion of replacement liquids) - I was seriously tempted to do a wagon like this, but now, I doff my hat to you   :no: 

Central Wales (LNWR) PO's - none colliery - are less common than hens' teeth,  though I'm aware of one from Llandilo in the 1920's (for about 3 years) in the name of Dunn, but as that photo is the subject of a forthcoming article (somewhere) I will not post the image.  I have however done a 'retro' livery for my period..... 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't have any notes from the LNWR Registers but there is one GWR entry that might interest you (and me). A Daniel Jones of Llandovery – no relation to Mary as far as I know – whose name crops up in a Directory of the period, registered three wagons with the GWR, the first two (nos 1 & 2) in Dec 1896 and the third (no.3) in November 1898. All were 10-tonners, built by the Cardiff Rolling Stock Co and financed by North Central. GWR registration nos 25670-1, 34285. No idea what they looked like of course and I've not managed to find any photos of Llandovery goods yard.

 

Nice models by the way.

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To get back onto what is for me rather more familiar territory..

 

 

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On the right hand side is the prototype of the Marsh Son & Gibbs wagon while further back there is a black Timsbury wagon almost next to a MR D299 – just to keep things vaguely on topic. Also, nearest the camera is a Camerton Collieries wagon with an anonymously sheeted load (of what?). The wagon (no.310) is one of a batch 301-310 built by Wheeler & Gregory between 1899 and 1901. Plenty more Bath Stone Firms wagons to model if only the image were sharper!

 

 

 

 

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I managed to come away from the Warley show without any additions to my unbuilt wagon kit collection! I did buy some books, and one kit:

 

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Most of these will be confiscated - the T&Cs of my attendance at Warley include the purchase of birthday and Christmas presents for other family members to subsequently present to me. I have had a sneaky peak though. I wasn't altogether surprised to discover that the Morris & Shaw Birch Coppice Colliery wagons in fact had external diagonal ironwork, unlike the Slater's Gloucester 5-plank wagon used for the models [Turton, 6th Collection, p. 108]. They're also 16' long and dated 1908... Compromise, compromise.

 

I had a very interesting discussion on weathering of pre-group period wagons (a lack of which is a notable feature of my builds to date) with Jonathan Wealleans, along with a demonstration of his weathering techniques which I intend to try out shortly. He mentioned that in one of Keith Turton's books there is evidence presented that the larger PO users' contracts with the wagon building or repair firms could specify frequency of repainting, which could be as little as three years. This ties in with the observation that PO wagons often look smarter than company-owned wagons, in photos from the pre-Great War era or even into the 1920s.

 

Metcalfe card kits are my secret vice. (The layout I have is very much set-track and Metcalfeville...) A number of their railway kits have a distinctly Midland air - certainly the goods shed and engine shed - though the country station is based on a MSLR/CLC prototype. Latterly, prompted I think by a tie-in with Peco, they've been drifting in a dubiously Great Western direction so I was delighted that their latest offering reasserts their north-county origins! I don't really have a use for a Settle & Carlisle station, though the design was used for some other station buildings of the 1870s, e.g. Weston, at the opposite extreme of the Midland system - the last station before Bath.

 

I met a surprising number of people (two) with an interest in the Staffordshire end of the Wolverhampton, Walsall and Water Orton Junction line (the Sutton Park line) and its connections to the Cannock Chase coalfield - a less glamorous corner of the Midland system than the S&C but one that is currently piquing my interest.

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