Double Minories

[cromptonnut]

Just wondered if anyone had ever planned, or built, or seen, a "double Minories" trackplan where you have a four track approach into the station going into multiple platforms.

 

I have some ideas but don't want to reinvent the wheel if one already exists for inspiration, although my sketches so far do lose the compactness of the Minories approach.

 

The nearest prototype I've come up with so far is Fenchurch Street itself which is basically five scissors crossovers.

Edited July 16, 2016 by cromptonnut

[Rivercider]

How do you envisage that working?

 

A four track approach with all platforms being accessible for arrivals and departures from both main lines and reliefs,

which would be complicated.

Or possibly two parallel Minories set ups, one each for main lines and reliefs with limited connection between them,

perhaps only one middle platform with direct access to and from all lines,

 

cheers

Edited July 16, 2016 by Rivercider

[cromptonnut]

It may well be far too complicated to be practical, or need about 10ft for the station approach when far simpler solutions may well be all that is needed ... but as I said, it's just an idea bouncing around my head for a layout in a shed I don't yet own, in a house we haven't yet bought, with money we don't yet have.

 

But it's nice to plan, isn't it?

[Rivercider]

 

But it's nice to plan, isn't it?

Oh yes!

 

cheers

[Chimer]

Well

 

 

The only clever thing I can think of is interlacing the crossover ladders.  The second version tries to minimise reverse curves (platforms on the left).  But am I allowed 3 double slips?

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

Edit to say those are Streamline large radius points ....

Edited July 16, 2016 by Chimer

[cromptonnut]

I came up with a similar "double slips as far as the eye can see" arrangement and didn't know how prototypical it might end up looking especially if set in the 80s after rationalisation.

 

I shall keep playing designing...

[Flying Pig]

Fenchurch Street itself on the SRS site - http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/lner/E95.gif (no idea of the date).

 

Note the use of single slips with separate crossovers to allow parallel moves to occur, which is a fairly common feature in British practice. The bend in the station throat absorbs many reverse curves in the Minories style, but a few remain.

 

Quite a compact station to be fed by a four track approach.

[KeithHC]

Hi Cromptonnut,

Why not look at your own back yard. The north end of Gatwick where Gat EX came down the fast lines but crossed over to use platform 1 and 2. With the latest developments you now have the additional platforms on the fast side. I have often played with the idea of a model from the north face of the station buildings up to the footbridge between Gatwick and Horley. I would leave in the fuel sidings off the slow lines and as its my railway I would leave in the aggregate line that was built for the M23 construction just to allow more movements.....

 

Keith HC 

[Clive Mortimore]

Something like this place, I think it is called Kings Cross

 

From tunnel mouth to train shed it is about 8ft 6 ins in 00. With just a little bit of jiggery pokery it can be done with Peco points.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Something like this place, I think it is called Kings Cross

 

From tunnel mouth to train shed it is about 8ft 6 ins in 00. With just a little bit of jiggery pokery it can be done with Peco points.

That's a triple Minories off quadruple track.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Also take a look at Birmingham New Street if you want to fit a gallon into a pint pot. As with Kings Cross most of the pointwork fits into about 200 yards at each end. The approach tracks can access between six and eleven platforms IIRC, but don't try running a Mk1 coupled to a Mk2 or Mk3 at more than 10 mph from No.9 towards Monument Lane.

[L&Y]

CJ Freezer did one or two. Pretty sure I have it somewhere. 2nd edition plans for larger layouts (1973). L2 under City specials. Part of a 9'6" X 5'6" layout. It's 10' X 2' for the terminus using plain 24" inch turnouts.  But flows quite well. Would need to redraw it into scarm or something to print it here. Too much railway for modern thinking but could be reworked into an L shape layout to reversing loops to make it manageable to work. You can get it on ebay if your interested. Not quite minories but it looks impressive.

[MartinWales]

Was'nt this in 60 Plans for Small Layouts too at one time. Seem to remember it was planned in a modular context 

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I think somewhere like Fenchurch Street, where all lines access all platforms, would (in model terms) be quite boring to operate.

 

Some termini with multiple approach tracks were largely worked as two separate stations, with only limited transfer links between the two sides. London Victoria (Eastern and Central sides) and Bradford Exchange are examples that spring to mind.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I have designed a "double Minories", based on the idea of a terminus near Barbican shared by GW and GE (Enfield) services.

 

But unlike the plans above, one could not access all platforms from all tracks. That makes operation a bit more complex and therefore interesting. It also saves space on the approaches although the plans above are very good. Nothing wrong with using plenty of double slips in a confined city terminus setting. Just beware that the "medium radius" Peco slip is nothing of the sort! Not a problem with r-t-r locos in 00 but some kit-built locos might struggle.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Joseph_Pestell

[Nearholmer]

Gut feel is that, while such a terminus is as possible in model form as it is in reality, they aren't very popular partly because of space, but also because of the sheer intensity of operation for one individual - Minories is about as busy as one wants for something that one isn't getting paid to do!

 

There are club layouts with "big" termini, including one of Kings Cross (Gainsborough club?).

 

A factor to think about is how many parallel moves one wants to make in and out. An ultimate terminus for a four track line ought to permit two simultaneous departures, simultaneous with two arrivals, for a high percentage of combinations of road-to-platform, which leads to a serious amount of point-work. But, a "sleepy" place might tolerate most of the throat being "hogged" by many single moves, which requires a far less point-work.

 

Steam-age provision for loco moves also complicates matters, which is part of why real railways hate loco-hauled trains.

 

Kevin

[Jub45565]

Bradford Forster Square had an entry, which if the carriage sidings are removed, is similar in concept...

 

Available in a decent scale to view here:

 

https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/416271/433381/13/101329

[L&Y]

 

Had a go at drawing CJ Freezers version. But when he did it there were no double slips or curved points so it's changed a little to try and get rid of some of the dog legs/compromises. Top right small loco shed. Was supposed to be worked by tank engines like the original. Stuck at home with a chest infection so what else to do!

On reflection a large Y in the middle and more medium radius points would improve it but you can see the idea. Even so it takes up 12' rather than the 9'6" of the original if 3'6" train lengths are to be used. 

Edited July 21, 2016 by L&Y

[woodenhead]

Put a return loop on that and you have the beginnings of a nice little layout I think Mr L&Y

 

The double slip is very useful to give access to all platform faces from the stabling point.

Edited July 21, 2016 by woodenhead

[L&Y]

Replace most of the small radius turnouts with medium and it doesn't actually take any more space. Didn't quite work with the Y though. Middle platform should be wider I think. Sidings at the bottom for loco storage. This originally did go through an intermediate staion where the 4 tracks went back to 2 & then to a mostly hidden loop under the terminus itself.  But just round to some hidden loops would do the same job. Enough there to build as it is. Its Mr Freezers plan not mine! Shame there wasn't the range of rtr track that there is now. I wonder what the guy would have churned out! 

 

edited to update plan. Now all large or med rad turnouts except in shed area. Tweaked a bit more. Note single slip. You can tell I'm bored.

 

Still playing. Smoothed out a dogleg.....Added tunnel mouths and signal cabin, coal stage for fun.

Final size 2' X 10' 9" for station board. 4' widest edge.  minimum radius 36" curves into station. Scaled for 4mm/ft Peco streamline track library.

Maximum Train length 46" so tank engine and short suburban coaches for best effect. 

Edited July 24, 2016 by L&Y

[Enterprisingwestern]

Something like this place, I think it is called Kings Cross

 

From tunnel mouth to train shed it is about 8ft 6 ins in 00. With just a little bit of jiggery pokery it can be done with Peco points.

There are many who would take issue with that Clive, the whole concept of Kings Cross is that it can't be done with standard pointwork, it loses its uniqueness.

 

Mike.

[Clive Mortimore]

There are many who would take issue with that Clive, the whole concept of Kings Cross is that it can't be done with standard pointwork, it loses its uniqueness.

 

Mike.

Hi Mike

 

With a little jiggery pokery the 1977 track plan can be done with Peco points.

[cromptonnut]

I quite like that design, although I would take the furthest crossover from the station between the inner two tracks beyond the set of point next to it, or add in another set of points there, as that would enable running from all tracks to all platforms.

 

At the moment you can't get from the inner track to the top platform, as far as I can tell?

 

Liking these very much though, as they've actually given me an idea of having a through station on a loop round the inside of the shed plus the triangular junction out into the garden section, then a simple twin track junction going to this terminus on an upper level, with storage sidings on the lower level as part of the loop. 

 

All theoretical of course as we haven't found the house yet to put a shed in the garden of... but it's great to see how others can develop what was essentially a fairly simple question into actual potential layout ideas.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Charing Cross is a "double Minories".

[cromptonnut]

Personally I think I've found the perfect location but the wife isn't so convinced.

Edited February 21, 2017 by cromptonnut