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Carflat from N Gauge Society

N-gauge Carflat N-scale NGS Car Motorail




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#51 acg5324

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 13:51

There are very few pics of B4 bogied Carflats, which suggests there weren't very many of them, so I think they were replacement bogies as and when they became available from scrapped Mk1s. Even the Longsworth book doesn't list what bogies the Carflats have.



#52 Ben A

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 14:53

Hello all,

 

I am not sure how many Carflats were either built, or fitted with, the B4 bogies but certainly they can be found such as the 1980 Brockenhurst shot already linked above.  Here is another from Paul Bartlett's gallery showing a wagon in bauxite:

 

http://paulbartlett....9b9484#hcd24bd2

 

I haven't found any evidence of any Carflats receiving Commonwealth bogies, but that does not mean it didn't happen, though we are not planning to offer such a variant without hard evidence.  But it can be tough to spot exactly what bogies are in use as they are often obscured by shadow.  

 

On the subject of chocs, this image shows them piled at the end of empty wagons, with loaded wagons behind:

 

https://flic.kr/p/a1GvcW

 

Looking at the shot, I am wondering whether the coaches accompanying these flats are in the sidings behind the train, and the photographer has caught it in the midst of shunting prior to the cars being unloaded.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.


Edited by Ben A, 21 July 2016 - 14:55 .


#53 'CHARD

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 15:14

 

https://flic.kr/p/a1GvcW

 

Looking at the shot, I am wondering whether the coaches accompanying these flats are in the sidings behind the train, and the photographer has caught it in the midst of shunting prior to the cars being unloaded.

 

 

I'm prepared to bet that those are camping coaches in the siding, and 50038 is working through non-stop, on a service that augments a separately pathed passenger train.

 

https://photos.smugm.../L/46zzzz-L.jpg


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#54 Dr Al

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 15:22

At the moment we are veering towards moulding them in two "stacks" as they would appear at the ends of empty wagons, however this is open to debate.

 

 

If this can be done in a way that isn't obtrusive to loading the wagons then great, if not, I'd be inclined to say don't do this.

 

I suspect many purchasers will want to load these wagons, as that's a lot of the appeal.

 

Cheers,

Alan


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#55 Ben A

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 15:54

If this can be done in a way that isn't obtrusive to loading the wagons then great, if not, I'd be inclined to say don't do this.

 

I suspect many purchasers will want to load these wagons, as that's a lot of the appeal.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

Hello Alan,

 

I don't think I explained myself very well - these mouldings would be in the bag of bits and could be positioned by the modeller if desired - the deck itself will be clear.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.


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#56 D826

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 17:59

I'm prepared to bet that those are camping coaches in the siding, and 50038 is working through non-stop, on a service that augments a separately pathed passenger train.
 
https://photos.smugm.../L/46zzzz-L.jpg


Yup,

That's on a Newton Abbot or St Austell motorail, passengers travelled by separate normal service from 1982. The camping coaches at the Warren, (due to be scrapped after the 2016 season), are in the background. There was a trailing connection from the up loop into the yard the camping coaches are in though the 70s - may have lasted till resignalling.

They used to use a 25 on 4 or 5 coach Paignton locals circa 75/76 Summer services which used to make a good noisy departure under the footbridge from the down loop.

Matt W
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#57 Dr Al

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 08:00

Hello Alan,

 

I don't think I explained myself very well - these mouldings would be in the bag of bits and could be positioned by the modeller if desired - the deck itself will be clear.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

Perfect!

 

Have you/NGS thought about offering these wagons with some sort of bulk deal (if at all possible) on cars (e.g. from Oxford) to load them with? Would people be interested in something like that?

 

Cheers,
Alan



#58 red death

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 10:33

Perfect!

 

Have you/NGS thought about offering these wagons with some sort of bulk deal (if at all possible) on cars (e.g. from Oxford) to load them with? Would people be interested in something like that?

 

Cheers,
Alan

 

Hi Alan

 

Yes, we have there has been quite a lot of discussion about that on the NGF, but the difficulty as I said over there is picking cars/vans that suit across the eras and regions whilst still being able to meet minimum order numbers (for new models). For existing OD models there is not much (if any) benefit that we could offer in terms of bulk deals I'm afraid.

 

Cheers, Mike



#59 DJM Dave

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 11:38

Hi Alan

Yes, we have there has been quite a lot of discussion about that on the NGF, but the difficulty as I said over there is picking cars/vans that suit across the eras and regions whilst still being able to meet minimum order numbers (for new models). For existing OD models there is not much (if any) benefit that we could offer in terms of bulk deals I'm afraid.

Cheers, Mike

Tooling for cars is also a difficult and expensive process too.
For example, a simple plastic car along the lines of a Wiking Volkeswagen Tuareg, would need a body tool right? Wrong! It would need a collapsing tool to allow for ridges and undercuts such as spoilers or bonnet lips etc.
The chassis would go in the same tool along with wheels and any other finer detail. (I mean depending on how far you want to take the detail would dictate the other finer detail).
Then there is a tool for the glazing, however to keep that down its possible to use vac forming for the glazing, but this is also problematical, especially for the assemblers who will need to cut surplus clear plastic from the glazing.

Oh I forgot, then you have to price point it so it will sell, but not be too expensive that it will only sell in limited numbers and not make profit.

Believe me, to do it right, and not just a plastic lump or a cruder metal lump isn't cheap. However, for the brave, I believe that the could be a market for the right models. Luckily I'm very brave ;-)

Cheers
Dave
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#60 'CHARD

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 12:06

Believe me, to do it right, and not just a plastic lump or a cruder metal lump isn't cheap. However, for the brave, I believe that the could be a market for the right models. Luckily I'm very brave ;-)

Cheers
Dave

 

Off topic - or cross-topic - we'll have a similar issue in 00 with the Carflats - especially in respect of train weights for long laden rakes.  

 

I'll be in the market for dozens of Halewood's finest 1968 metal.  Rendered as plastic.



#61 Crepello

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 15:39

Hello all,

 

I am not sure how many Carflats were either built, or fitted with, the B4 bogies but certainly they can be found such as the 1980 Brockenhurst shot already linked above.  Here is another from Paul Bartlett's gallery showing a wagon in bauxite:

 

http://paulbartlett....9b9484#hcd24bd2

 

I haven't found any evidence of any Carflats receiving Commonwealth bogies, but that does not mean it didn't happen, though we are not planning to offer such a variant without hard evidence.  But it can be tough to spot exactly what bogies are in use as they are often obscured by shadow.  

 

On the subject of chocs, this image shows them piled at the end of empty wagons, with loaded wagons behind:

 

https://flic.kr/p/a1GvcW

 

Looking at the shot, I am wondering whether the coaches accompanying these flats are in the sidings behind the train, and the photographer has caught it in the midst of shunting prior to the cars being unloaded.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

I seem to remember the empty (not Motorail) workings to Dagenham had the chocks scattered around the deck where the unloaders had left them. 



#62 Ben A

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 16:35

I seem to remember the empty (not Motorail) workings to Dagenham had the chocks scattered around the deck where the unloaders had left them.


That doesn't surprise me.

The issue is more about whether as separate items they are practical. They will be so small (about 1.5mm long and 1mm high) and so light that they would need fixing to the wagon, otherwise they could easily fall onto the track - or elsewhere.

And since these wagons typically carried 4-5 vehicles each one would have a minimum of 16 chocks. Gluing 16 of these tiny items down, without mess, is something of a challenge! Having them "in a pile" at one end is a lot simpler and less risky!

Cheers

Ben A.
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#63 scottystitch

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 18:13

I know we are very early in the process but would there be plans to offer a bulk buying option for the carflats, and therefore at a different price per unit?

 

My intention is to use Etched Pixels Newton Chambers TCVs for Motorail services, but I can see me looking for a rake of about ten of the carflats for a manufacturers transfer train. In fact I could easily add another six to alternate with the TCV rake.

 

Also, is this going to be an NGS model that is going to have only limited availability or will it be produced in batches as an ongoing stock item?


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#64 millerhillboy

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 18:20

Certainly a fair point, think most people will be looking for a multiple purchases.  I know I will.


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#65 Ben A

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 18:39


Hello all,

The actual pricing mechanism will be up to the shopkeeper and the treasurer. We only have a guide price at the moment in any event.

In terms of availability, we will be producing 500 of each of the six liveries, to make a total of 3000, which is the minimum number acceptable to Bachmann for new tooling.

After two years the model can, like the Queen Mary Brake and Inspection Saloons before, go into the Farish main range. However, there is no guarantee that just because they can produce them they will. And on top of that, the chances are the price will have gone up - the NGS price for the inspection saloon is approx £28, the Farish RRP is £39 and even box-shifter prices are £33 I believe.

Cheers

Ben A.
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#66 Bomag

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 21:31

Hello all,

The actual pricing mechanism will be up to the shopkeeper and the treasurer. We only have a guide price at the moment in any event.

In terms of availability, we will be producing 500 of each of the six liveries, to make a total of 3000, which is the minimum number acceptable to Bachmann for new tooling.

After two years the model can, like the Queen Mary Brake and Inspection Saloons before, go into the Farish main range. However, there is no guarantee that just because they can produce them they will. And on top of that, the chances are the price will have gone up - the NGS price for the inspection saloon is approx £28, the Farish RRP is £39 and even box-shifter prices are £33 I believe.

Cheers

Ben A.

 

I don't think that answers the question as to whether, depending on relevant sales, if you would do further batches of the popular liveries. Its was a bit different with the QM brake van and Inspection saloons where most people brought one of each livery. If you want a rake then you would be looking at multiples of the same livery, in which case going for 500 of each livery is a potential issue.



#67 Ben A

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 00:15

I don't think that answers the question as to whether, depending on relevant sales, if you would do further batches of the popular liveries. Its was a bit different with the QM brake van and Inspection saloons where most people brought one of each livery. If you want a rake then you would be looking at multiples of the same livery, in which case going for 500 of each livery is a potential issue.

 

I am not sure what question I haven't answered.

 

To recap:  The price hasn't yet been determined, and we will order 500 of each of the six livery versions announced.

 

If one of the versions sells out before production then we might add an additional run of the same colour with a different number, but that in itself would be a gamble as, if the actual market is for 550 models, 450 of the second run will remain unsold.   The speed with which certain liveries are ordered may be an indicator, but we won't be able to take an informed view until we see how initial orders shape up.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.


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#68 Padishar Creel

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 10:50

Hi Ben,

I would expect the version 3 to be the most popular (BR Blue, branded BR1 bogies). If the pre-orders of this variety were to be more than 500 are Farish (or should I say the factory where these are produced) flexible enough produce to satisfy demand?

 

Another point, I have also read and fully understand post 59 on tooling for cars, sounds similar to the passenger coach "catering car" syndrome (no matter what you produce someone will complain). I wonder whether it still would be useful to contact Oxford to ask them to develop up another 1970s car. Models that come to mind are: Vauxhall Viva, Morris Marina, Triumph Dolomite, Rover 2000. They simply are part of that decade

 

I don't think I will be able to repeat often enough how much I am looking forward to these models.

es grüßt

pc


Edited by Padishar Creel, 25 July 2016 - 10:51 .

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#69 red death

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 11:02

I would expect the version 3 to be the most popular (BR Blue, branded BR1 bogies). If the pre-orders of this variety were to be more than 500 are Farish (or should I say the factory where these are produced) flexible enough produce to satisfy demand?

 

Yes, that should be possible for us to up the order of any particular livery/variant provided we are above the minimum order.

 

Cheers, Mike


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#70 mikeharvey22

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 14:24

Just in case anyone has missed it.

http://www.rmweb.co....cussion-thread/

#71 Crepello

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 13:22

A previous correspondent has correctly pointed out that the only first class blue/grey Mark 1 in the current Farish catalogue (apart from the sleeper)  is the CK. Luckily I've already got a BCK and an FK from earlier years. Hopefully Farish can be 'nudged' to produce further FKs and maybe a BFK to help assembly of a proper Motorail train.


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#72 Ben A

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 13:47

Hi Crepello,

 

Thanks for the suggestion - Bachmann/Farish are announcing their new catalogue in the first week of January 2017 so let's hope they've taken heed!

 

cheers

 

Ben A.


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#73 acg5324

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 13:57

Having researched this a bit most day trains seemed to be formed entirely of FKs with often BSO,s as the brake vehicle. This would be more useful from GF than a BFK but would turn it down!
There has only been one release of the GF Mk1 FK...apologies but I have loads of them but would be up for a second release.
The other option you have for Motorail is a rake of Mk2 FKs.....even rarer from GF.... And the readily available Mk2 BSO is an easy convert into a BFK.

#74 Joseph_Pestell

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 14:05

Yup,

That's on a Newton Abbot or St Austell motorail, passengers travelled by separate normal service from 1982. The camping coaches at the Warren, (due to be scrapped after the 2016 season), are in the background. There was a trailing connection from the up loop into the yard the camping coaches are in though the 70s - may have lasted till resignalling.

They used to use a 25 on 4 or 5 coach Paignton locals circa 75/76 Summer services which used to make a good noisy departure under the footbridge from the down loop.

Matt W

 

I would hope only withdrawn from use as camping coaches (a lovely anachronism in the 21st century). Surely a preservation line could make use of them.



#75 Bomag

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 17:23

I would hope only withdrawn from use as camping coaches (a lovely anachronism in the 21st century). Surely a preservation line could make use of them.

 

Other than the LMS Inspection coach they are apparently a lot of rust held together by paint. The inspection coach is only slightly better on the basis that it has more structural wood in it. The RUs are not to much of a loss but the RSO would be more significant.














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