Grove street yard

[shortliner]

Jenny - It isn't a cheap option, but double length PECO Locolifts are a workable option. You can always use3mm MDF as the extender glued into the channel which will give you sides on the "cassettes as well Much easier as a "drop on fit" than carefully aligning tracks.

See - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/3354-jacks-in-or-shortliners-shortline/page__st__50

[SouthernRegionSteam]

Just thought it might be worth mentioning - you have two tracks leading out into the fiddle yard - it is very hard (although I have done it with some success) to build a sector plate with two exit tracks due to alignment. Cassettes seem a good option, but I personally would sit them in a recessed tray so you don't accidentally knock one off!

 

The layout looks great, looking forward to more.

 

Jam

[Jenny Emily]

Thanks for the replies and ideas - some good stuff for me to think about.

 

I considered cassettes, but decided against them because of the amount of stock I wanted to use, and the potential cost that could create. Wood is cheap, and I wanted something sturdy and which couldn't get dropped or tipped over. Also, there is no room for the Gaugemaster series D controller that I use to power the layout where the switches are for the rest of the electrics. I wanted to have a shelf over the fiddleyard to take this (it connects to the layout via a six pin terminal plug).

 

There are two 3-way points on the layout, and even as electrofrogs I'd agree that they are very easy to wire up. However if I go with points and track rather than anything else, it limits the amount of siding space. I also want to keep costs down which would mean using the leftover track I already have - there's enough to create four roads - two off each line, plus a headshunt for a locomotive.

 

My thoughts on track alignment would be to have a four or so inch flat piece attached to the fiddleyard that would allow the two roads off the layout to be straightened up before they reach the edge of the traverser. My thoughts were that if the two roads are then parallel when they reach the traverser, then as long as the tracks on the traverser are the same distance apart, then all tracks should line up with both roads. Of course, I have to work out construction details for what would be a rather more complex bit of woodwork than the layout baseboards.

 

I agree that the legs have to be braced to stop wobbling. My Father's Hornby Dublo exhibition layout was a pain if children decided to run up and throw themselves at the front (which they frequently seemed to as if somehow arriving at speed helped them see the trains better). Despite the barriers, there were always children finding a way through to lean directly on the front, and the wobble could cause derailments if we were unlucky. Diagnoly braced wood therefore looks like a good option; the front could be covered by a cloth skirt to hide it and make it look neat. The underside of the layout is a 3" deep box structure, and my thoughts were that this coupled with some strengthening pieces glued in to take bolts would give a firm basis to attach the legs to the layout.

 

I've made a few sletches of how to get an 8'x4' piece of plywood cut at the woodyard to make my kit of parts. However I have to decide on the fiddle yard thing first as that dictates how the wood gets cut. Whilst a sector plate might be simpler than a traverser, as far as I can tell, to construct, with two tracks coming to it, I'm not sure that I'd be good enough to get the tracks lined up well enough that I wouldn't be plagued by derailments. A traverser looks a lottle more complicated, but on the plus side I have found three pairs of drawer runners from an old desk that might be perfect to sit it on so it moves smoothly back and forth.

 

Thanks again for the valuable replies! I shall probably keep a look out at York this weekend when I'm visiting to see what other people are using and how good they are under exhibition conditions.

[rob D2]

Nice layout jenny,

I too revel in the run down freight vibe . As a constructive comment I would say you need some weeds on those tracks - international models do those grass tufts which are good.

 

Cheers

rob

[Jenny Emily]

<br />Nice layout jenny,<br />I too revel in the run down freight vibe . As a constructive comment I would say you need some weeds on those tracks - international models do those grass tufts which are good. <br /><br />Cheers<br />rob<br />

<br /><br /><br />

 

Thanks. I have oiled the track up recently, using a mix of Humbrol #85 (satin black) and dirty paint thinners. That has made the main running lines, loops and loco stabling points look well used by leaky locomotives. There are some areas where the track is weed infested at the ends of sidings, but a lot of Trafford Park (which is one of the inspirations for this layout) had quite weed free track, even after years of disuse. Shotton paper mill too (another place I visited some years ago) had neat track within the confines of the papermill property. Places like the oil terminal were deliberately left as clean and weed free ballast, so that it would look like it was well tended by staff who might have had too much time on their hands between trains in their little hut.

[LNWR lives on]

Hi Jenny

 

This is the first time I have come across your layout (much to my loss) and I am very impressed with how much operational ability you have been able to get into a small area. I particulary admire the detail you have managed to get into the layout.

 

One thing that strikes me as very effective is the use of the building faces which do not encroach onto the layout area but add a good deal of depth and realism to the layout, especially the angled building which is very effective in adding dimension. I like alot of the things you have done and it is encourgaing to see what can be done in a small area

 

David

[rob D2]

Fair enough jenny,

I'm not familiar with Trafford park , I just love weeds ( or inlaid track)

great grot anyway !

[Jenny Emily]

Today I bought the wood and got the woodyard to slice and dice it all into the kit of parts. I'm still using 4mm ply, which is alarmingly flexible as a sheet, but becomes immensely strong (and as important: immensely light) when built up into a box structure. It is going to follow much the same technique as the main part of the layout (a construction photo of the underside showing off the construction is in one of the first posts in this thread).

 

I was going to scan and post here the diagraom that showed just how to get an 8'x4' sheet of ply cut into a kist of parts that fit on the back seat of a low-slung sportscar, but I managed to leave the plan at the woodyard. Nevermind. I'm in my Father's workshop tomorrow constructing the thing, so I'll try and get some photos of it being stuck together then. I still haven't decided on construction of the legs yet. They will come later - I have ideas in mind; thanks for the suggestions in this thread from people.

 

It will be a four road traverser lining up with the two tracks that emerge from the scenic area. Above it will be shelves for spare stock and electrics. The full front will be a 5"x3'6" scenic area, accessed by extending one of the headshunts from the main scenic area. This will mean that there will be no expanse of wood from the viewing side and it will present an 8' scenic length at any future exhibition I might take it to. It also means that should the space or inginuety arise, it can be adapted to provide a continuous run via the scenic front, keeping access to the fiddle yard and all sidings.

 

The scenic section at the front will take inspiration from Mosley Road on Trafford Park, so lots of inset track and loading docks shared with road traffic.

[shortliner]

Jenny - a small caution - when you assemble your traverser EVERYTHING MUST BE ABSOLUTELY SQUARE! - if it isn't it will constantly jam and drive you mad - there speaks the voice of experience - the first one I ever built was a tiny fraction out on one corner!

[Jenny Emily]

Jenny - a small caution - when you assemble your traverser EVERYTHING MUST BE ABSOLUTELY SQUARE! - if it isn't it will constantly jam and drive you mad - there speaks the voice of experience - the first one I ever built was a tiny fraction out on one corner!

 

Thanks for the warning! It's always handy to learn from other people's mistakes. My plan is to utilise three old drawers from a long gone desk that currently sit forlorn in my Father's loft. They have metal runners guided by small nylon wheels, and my idea it to use them for the traverser to run on. I was going to get some cheap bolts to lock it in place level with each track, which I'm also planning on using to give an electrical connection to each track in turn (I've seen something similar used on other people's traversers/sector plates). Is there a sure-fire way to ensure it runs straight, or is it more a case of tinkering and testing and adjusting until it runs correctly?

 

Tonight I've been cleaning up salvaged track, in order to keep with the minimum cost theme (the wood, for those who count beans, cost £16.12 all in including the batons for strengthening). What I've found is that my economies ten years ago when money was tight mean that more than half of the plain track is scrap. Not because of distortion, but because of rust. I used a lot of plain steel Peco code 100 track which I expect is fine for applications such as fiddle yards and hidden sections where it never comes into contact with PVA/water mix. However I used it everywhere that was ballasted and much has suffered as a result.

 

The salvaged points are, like the others used on the already built section, absulutely fine. All the brass-coloured track (also Peco code 100) is as good as the day it was new, and was already recycled on the built section with no issues. I have only a short 6" section of that left over, alas. My plan is to buy all new track for the traverser - four yard lengths should be fine, using offcuts of the salvaged track for the very ends where locos are not going to need to run.

 

One of my plans, following the real-life inspiration of the TDG depot on Mosley Road in Trafford Park, is to use an old Peco code 100 short crossing in amongst the track to represent a disused spur into one of the low relief factory buildings. Locomotives and stock will only ever cross it in one direction, so damage it has on the tracks in the other direction will not be an issue (I paid 50p for it years ago from a box of secondhand track in a long-gone model shop). I'm planning on building a representation of a point using spare code 100 rail to join to it from a parallel track. There will be no real point mechanism to cause issues, and I can bury it completely in a representation of a concrete surface without having to have any over-sized gaps for working switch blades - because there won't be any.

 

On my shopping list is a single Peco PL-10 switch, lots of wire, four yards of plain track, and a tube of Bostik (my last tube was all used up). I still have most of the PVA from building every layout I ever had, as I had a gallon given free ten years ago from a factory that made coffins (don't ask) and the stuff seems to last forever. I also need to buy some more Superquick brick papers (ashlar stone, plain red brick and roofing tiles) as all I have left from the already built section is a box of assorted small offcuts that won't go far at all.

 

Unless something really unexpected turns up that I haven't budgeted for, I'm hoping the entire fiddleyard plus the scenic area in front of it should still give change from £60. Fingers crossed.

 

 

 

[shortliner]

It is probably the tinkering, testing, adjusting and cussing route, I'm afraid - but a decent Right-angle, laying out square will go a long way towards helping!

[Jenny Emily]

After three days' hard woodworking, I've got the 3'6"x 20" board constructed. It's a really odd construction, best illistrated by a photo.... if I had a camera about...

 

The front 5" strip of the board is the same construction as the main section of Grove Street Yard. Then there is the backscene, so that together the front of what is essentially the fiddle yard presents a thin scenic strip rather than an expanse of plain wood. This will become an interpretation of Mosely road in Trafford Park by the TDG depot.

 

Behind this, the rearmost 15"x3'6" section is where the traverser will go. It is essentially the open construction that the main baseboard was constructed in, but upside down so that the baseboard 'top' is actually the very bottom. This means it is just as strong, but allows a lot of depth for the traverser mechanism to sit into and move freely. I have also added a 6" deep shelf above the traverser level to hold all electrics, have some space for spare stock. Importantly, it provides a huge degree of stiffness and strength to the construction.

 

The traverser table is a piece of 8mm ply cut to shape, and wide enough for four tracks. It is only some 3' long, so that there can be a narrow strip of play at baseboard height where the two tracks come off the main scenic section. Hopefully this will allow enough space for the two tracks to straighten so that they align with all four traverser tracks when that is slid across. The traverser table is going to have the sliding hinges from some old work desk drawers at the end furthest from where the track comes onto it. This will hold it square, as well as allowing it to slide freely. Yet to be built is the mechanism at the other end to line tracks up which will be a small door bolt that meshes into a series of clips set onto the surface of the traverser so that they slide home when the track is perfectly aligned. (Gosh, I so wish I had a camera to take a picture now, as describing it is really hard - it's a simple design, dammit!)

 

Track isn't laid yet, but all the electrical goodies arrived this morning from Hattons (along with some limited edition VVV wagons and a VANFIT - well, you have to make the most of the fixed rate postage, don't you?). I'm away all weekend working, so construction has halted until at least Monday. The woodworking has (just like last time) not been anywhere near as daunting as I imagined it would be. The biggest stumbling block was always buying the wood and starting. Once started, it almost felt at times like it was building itself, such was the ease that glue, wood and screws go together.

 

I've bought some of those clips that fasten flight case lids on. I do not know what they are called, but I think their principal is the same to the things that used to keep the lids of Grolsch bottles on. Anyone who has the limited edition Harry Potter DVD set that comes in a rendition of a trunk will know that that's lid holds down with the same thing (Oh for a simple photo again). I'm going to use one on either side along with locating dowels to ensure that the fiddle yard and main layout easily align together and hold tight with no chance of movement. I've seen a lot of people say that alignment between adjacent boards is critical for trouble free running, so that's why I'm going to take a lot of effort in reliable joining means. Unjtil that is done, no track has been cut to length or fastened down.

 

By using 4mm ply throughout and 3/4" batons for strnegth in corners, the whole thing weighs not a lot. 4mm ply is scarily weedy when just in plain sheets, but trust me the strength is immense when it is all put together and has cross braces from the same material. I'm not massively strong, but I can lift and carry the main section of Grove Street Yard with ease. The fiddleyard too is exactly the same. The only thing that if carrying it under one arm that you need is some-one to hold doors open for you as you pass through. Of course, two people make much lighter work of carrying it, or it fits perfectly on a sack trolley for a very hassle free move around a garage or an exhibition hall.

 

I will get pictures as soon as I can get my mitts on a working camera.

[RedgateModels]

Hi Jenny,

 

No dates set yet, but would you consider exhibiting at next year's mansfield show? probably early March next year

 

 

[buffalo]

Hi Jenny,

 

Looking forward to seeing the photos when you can find a camera. I, too, have recently been trying the 4mm ply with softwood spacers approach to building baseboards and, like you, have been really pleased with the results. I also need to get hold of some of the over-centre clips like the ones you describe -- enjoyed reading your description of these and learning about Harry Potter's trunk -- to hold my two boards together. Where did you get yours?

 

Nick

[rob D2]

Jenny,

well done for getting the layout in MR. I like the overhead shot of the layout - you surely have plenty of shunting possibilities !

[Jenny Emily]

Hi Jenny,

 

No dates set yet, but would you consider exhibiting at next year's mansfield show? probably early March next year

 

 

 

Possibly. Could you PM me some more details? I'm based in Bolton (north of Manchester)

 

 

Hi Jenny,

 

Looking forward to seeing the photos when you can find a camera. I, too, have recently been trying the 4mm ply with softwood spacers approach to building baseboards and, like you, have been really pleased with the results. I also need to get hold of some of the over-centre clips like the ones you describe -- enjoyed reading your description of these and learning about Harry Potter's trunk -- to hold my two boards together. Where did you get yours?

 

Nick

 

I got mine from B&Q. They were about £7 for a pack of two, but they look well made and should be easy to flick open and shut making aligning baseboards together fairly quick and easy (in theory at least). The 4mm ply is very strong when braced, and easy to cut holes in too. The only issues I had was that the screws to hold the PL-10E point motors tended to come all the way through and had to be hidden by careful ballasting. I've also used some of the buildings to help brace the structure (as they are made of offcuts of the ply and batons) and this has worked well too. There's a picture at the beginning of this thread somewhere showing the underside of the main scenic section when being built that shows the method of construction quite well.

 

 

Jenny,

well done for getting the layout in MR. I like the overhead shot of the layout - you surely have plenty of shunting possibilities !

 

Thanks! I haven't actually seen a copy of MR yet, so don't know which pictures they used. The overhead shots (of which two were done by the photographer) came out a little distorted in the middle because they are a composite of two images. We put the layout flat on the carpet, removed all the stock then she photographed it using the tripod at its highest setting straddling the layout with one minute exposures to get good clarity of detail. Of course, because of the slight difference in angle between the two shots, the bit in the middle can hurt the eye when looking at some of the low relief buildings that have ended up foreshortened and banana shaped!

 

As for shunting, there indeed are so many possibilities that even the keenest of shunters could not exhaust all possibilities quickly. There are four key industries to justify different wagon flows, as well as an extra siding for the local coal merchant or anyone else whose existance I need to justify a particular wagon. The headshunts will all take either an 04/08 plus two wagons, or a 20/24/25 with one, so in theory any loco I have can shunt every siding. The run around loop in the centre allows a locomotive to comfortably run around two wagons, or squeeze past three with careful positioning. I also avoided having to use off-stage areas to run around or be part of the shunting moves because I felt it was important for it all to be potentially self-contained. Planning the positioning of points took the most time in the planning stage to be able to do all of that! It all runs on DC, and there are two isolating sidings to take locomotives, so that it can be shunted suing two.

 

The extesion I am building will help make shunting easier, by providing an extra two long sidings plus a four road traverser off-stage long enough to take a locomotive and five or six wagons on each road. Both extra sidings will also run through isolating switches (more old Hornby-Dublo D2 switches) allowing potentially four DC locos to take it in turns to shunt on the scenic area. In practice I will probably stick with two locos at any one time and just have more flexibility over where they park during shunting.

 

 

[buffalo]

...I got mine from B&Q...

Oh well, I asked because I failed to find any in the local B&Q I'll just have to keep looking.

[Jenny Emily]

Oh well, I asked because I failed to find any in the local B&Q I'll just have to keep looking.

 

 

 

They were in the same aisle as all the screws and hinges. Their product code is N282 and they're called (officially) "Toggle & Plate, Nickel plated. Qty2" as per what's on the label.

 

 

[RedgateModels]

Seem to remember that the B&Q ones were twice the price of where I got most of mine from for Summat Colliery. let me do some digging to see if I can remember where I got them from ...

[BlackRat]

Good to see you in MR!

 

Fame at last!

[moorlander]

keep up the good work.

 

 

['CHARD]

I dunno how, but I simply hadn't seen pp66-69 of MR143 until just now. I was about to recycle said organ, by posting it through my mate's door (I'm on a crusade to get his Glasgow Queen St in N off the drawing board: this is my latest tactic), and I gave it one last flick through. I swear the fairies (as my dad would say) had inserted the pages in question since I last looked at it. What a great layout; if you don't mind, JE, I'm taking your little wonder out onto the patio for coffee and inspiration. Brilliant!

[Jenny Emily]

Thanks for the replies!

 

I dunno how, but I simply hadn't seen pp66-69 of MR143 until just now. I was about to recycle said organ, by posting it through my mate's door (I'm on a crusade to get his Glasgow Queen St in N off the drawing board: this is my latest tactic), and I gave it one last flick through. I swear the fairies (as my dad would say) had inserted the pages in question since I last looked at it. What a great layout; if you don't mind, JE, I'm taking your little wonder out onto the patio for coffee and inspiration. Brilliant!

 

Glad you like it! I sometimes find that articles 'appear' as if by magic on the second reading of a magazine.

 

Progress on 'Grove street yard' has been a lot since my last post. However, a lack of camera has prevented any images. The woodworking is done, resulting in a four road traverser that slides on brass runners made from hex bar on two steel rods. It works well, but it took a week to get working. I couldn't have done it without my Father, a Colchester Student lathe and a Tom Senior milling machine.

 

The front scenic section also progresses well, with most of the buildings done (albeit without roofs at the moment) and I've managed to construct a travelling overhead crane out of plastikard, plastruct and leftovers from a Tamiya tank kit that donated much to the scrapyard area. It stands in for the Walthers kit that I tried and failed to find a supplier of. At least it means though that I'm sticking with the low cost and recycling theme. So far it has cost the wood (about £20 from memory), £10 for screws and some alignment clips, £8 for Superquick brick papers and £2 for a tube of Bostik. It is safe to say that my bits box will be truly empty by the time I'm done!

 

Hopefully I might manage to get some photos tomorrow. My photographer of choice (Sarah Cartwright - she did the pictures for the Model Rail article) lives in Chester and hasn't been over in a while. However she will most likely make a trip once I'm largely complete. For a photographer who normally does artsy landscape stuff around Chester and clothing shoots, she rather enjoyed the model railway subject.

[Jenny Emily]

I've finally tracked down the use of the World's Worst Camera which, in the hands of the World's Worst Photographer (me) produced the following:

 

The fiddle yard. It slides on brass hex tubes set onto two steel bars. It's a bit tight, but is freeing up with repeated use. There are two tracks off 'Grove Street Yard' that line up with the three tracks at the edge of the traverser, the middle of which splits into two giving four roads. This method preserves the geometry so that two tracks can be lined up at any one time. Wiring is through an RS componants plug giving good electrical conduction. Alignment is by metal pins that lock the traverser in place. Each of the four tracks is independantly isolatable through Hornby Dublo D2 switches.

 

 

 

Right hand end of the scenic section aka 'Mosely Road'. The scenic section is 5"x3'6" and has a 12" high backscene so that buildings can dwarf the trains quite spectacularly. None of the buildings have as yet got roofs, but the bulk of the structures are there. The one at the end straddles the track that leads onto the board from the modified headshunt at the front of 'Grove street yard'. The single point on this section is controlled by a Peco PL-10 motor (I prefer these to the PL-10E version) and the wiring to each siding runs through a Hornby Dublo G3 switch so that only one is live at any one time.

 

 

 

At the left side of 'Mosely Road' I built this representation of an overhead travelling crane. The two side girders are made laboriously from plasticard, with Peco code 100 track glued along the tops. The legs are plastruct tubes, and the crane mechanism is balsa strip, plasticard, and a componant from a Tamiya tank kit that I found in my scrap box (I think it was originally meant to be the front of the tank's turret).

 

 

 

The building in the centre is offcuts of the ply used to make the baseboard. It is supported on some Peco girders that I've had in the bottom of my modelling box for ten years - I finally found a use for them! The legs are plastruct 'I' beams and the building is covered in Superquick papers with the windows salvaged from the leftovers from the Superquick terminus station kit butchered extensively when 'Grove street yard' was made. Underneath the loading dock is balsa and card.

 

Most of the track is inset using salvaged metcalfe embossed cobbles that were recycled off a dismantled layout. I cut them to shape by laying the cobbles over the track, then pressing down the card on the rail tops. This leaves a faint mark on the underside that you can then cut along with scissors, and hey-presto! The cobbles fit perfectly to the track regardless of geometry. Mud is yet more of the household brown emulsion mixed with black Javis scatter, and several shades of sand. It's still wet in these pictures. As it dries it shrinks a little, so the rail tops will re-emerge. I'll add varnish to suggest wetness after it dries. A watery wash of the same mix is used to weather the cobbles and blend in all the edges. It's quick, cheap, effective and pretty hard wearing. A lot of people who do Games Workshop miniatures battles use something similar to make their game board scenery. Given they can effectively cover a 6'x4' game board in an afternoon and be playing on it the following day, I figured there had to be something to the method. Finally, to ensure that stock will run on the rails rather than ride on the flanges across the ground cover, I use an old Wrenn CCT van to squash the 'mud' whislt it is still tacky. The Wrenn wagon has quite large flanges, so it leaves a groove big enough for more modern stock to roll happily.

 

That's progress so far. The hardest part was building the traverser which took well over a week. So far the scenery you see represents three days' dabbling from bare baseboards to this.

[Jenny Emily]

And some spare photos from the Model Rail shoot:

 

A class 09 waits by the oil depot.

 

 

 

A class 08, and the yard shunter - an ex-BR class 04 - await a train to shunt.

 

 

 

A class 25 spots its own wagons into the internal loading dock of a firm in the yard.