Il Grifone Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 'Daylight' is one of those things that is nice to have but invisible from normal viewing angles. In the specific case of the Dublo N2 it would have been a problem getting the mechanism in - the original horseshoe magnet sits forward of the armature and the clockwork mechanism fills the entire space. (I don't have a Dublo one, but the Trackmaster/Tri-ang version is similar). It also deprives the model of valuable space for the weight necessary for her to pull anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I spent a bit of time working on one of my N2s (the green LNER one to be precise) and I can now say that, after a clean and service, it is running very nicely indeed. I haven't got around to doing much with the others yet but hopefully I'll get around to them soon. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) I now have a second N2 up and running just as nicely as the first one. This time it's a BR one, with the early logo. I had it running for about 90 minutes, with no sign of slowing down or overheating at all. When I bought it the vendor said it was a non-runner and that the motor wouldn't turn over. It's amazing what a clean up, fiddling around and a bit of oil will do. These things are built to last. I wonder how many of the current crop of locomotives will be running in 60 or more years time.... Edited October 12, 2016 by Wolseley 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Fleece 30 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 These things are built to last. I wonder how many of the current crop of locomotives will be running in 60 or more years time.... We have said it many times, probably none as we live in a cheap and then throw it away age unfortunately. A few of todays don't last more than an hour or so, just look at how many Heljan/Hattons Beyer Garratts went back and do not run even now. Motors burning out after an hour (if that), valve gear locking up and dropping off, all cheap and nasty except not cheap to buy just the parts they use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 13, 2016 Author Share Posted October 13, 2016 We have said it many times, probably none as we live in a cheap and then throw it away age unfortunately. A few of todays don't last more than an hour or so, just look at how many Heljan/Hattons Beyer Garratts went back and do not run even now. Motors burning out after an hour (if that), valve gear locking up and dropping off, all cheap and nasty except not cheap to buy just the parts they use. And since limited editions are the norm and spare parts are no longer considered necessary, even the good ones are doomed. Try repairing a split chassis Mainline locomotive - I have several which need unobtainable parts. (Not the usual split axles....) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I seem to have the other two running now, but only as chassis at the moment. Once I'm satisfied that everything is OK then I'll put the bodies back on. One of them made a strange noise when running in reverse and didn't run as fast as it did in a forward direction, which had me stumped for a while, but it turned out that one of the rear driving wheels was not straight on the axle. Once I straightened it out, the noise went away and it was running better than before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 The progress so far. A bit of careful touching up of the paintwork is called for: 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 Almost all Dublo N2s seem to have the paint chipped off at the base of the smokebox door. This is caused by using the wrong type of screwdiver to loosen the body fixing screw of course. The correct type is an 'electrican's driver with a parallel blade, rather than the usual flared type. Use of a mains tester with plastic insulation avoids any danger of damage. I always thought this highly visible screw was rather a disfiguring feature - apparently so did Meccano Limited, as it was modified on later examples. The real thing is prone to rust patches in this area due to burning through being 'thrashed', but we don't do this to our beloved models. I find Humbrol no 85 'coal black' is a good match for Dublo black paint, though the last few I've bought have been rather cra below par. The couplings need to be kept in//bent back to the original shape for reliable operation. In particular the hook part must be vertical and the dropper in the correct position and rail clearance (1/32" - no less to avoid touching the rail and not much more or it will ride up over uncoupling ramps). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Just arrived today - an LMS N2 body (shaded sans serif characters). It's in very good condition and just needs a clean up and some (very) minor touching up before I fit it to a spare chassis I have. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 (edited) I have finally started doing some work on renovating my N2s. I'll post some more pictures when I have finished, but don't expect anything for a couple of weeks or more, as I usually take my time over something like this, added to which I also have given myself the distraction of working on an 8F 2-8-0.... Edited November 13, 2016 by Wolseley 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 I was just wondering - why on earth did Hornby pretend that the GWR version of their N2 was a 66xx class when the similarity was confined to the wheel arrangement and the cab windows and precious little else? Wouldn't it have made more sense to present it as an ex-Taff Vale Railway O2 class, which it actually resembles fairly closely? And, if they did that, they wouldn't have had to go to the expense of modifying the bodyshell to incorporate a GWR safety valve cover. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 3, 2016 Author Share Posted December 3, 2016 (edited) I was just wondering - why on earth did Hornby pretend that the GWR version of their N2 was a 66xx class when the similarity was confined to the wheel arrangement and the cab windows and precious little else? Wouldn't it have made more sense to present it as an ex-Taff Vale Railway O2 class, which it actually resembles fairly closely? And, if they did that, they wouldn't have had to go to the expense of modifying the bodyshell to incorporate a GWR safety valve cover. I've wondered about this myself, but probably they felt that a 56xx would be the only GWR 0-6-2T anyone had heard of. Information was far harder to obtain then than now. I suspect that the N2 was chosen because its relatively high pitched boiler (which caused problems on the prototype) gave room for the vertical armature. She looks more like a 56xx than this contemporary Meccano product looks like a 4575. https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/greenslade-taylor-hunt/catalogue-id-srgr10049/lot-fc4dfaa1-d71a-4b71-abdc-a4fe00e9cba3 and this allegedly is a GWR Atlantic tank.... (we'll ignore that they were all withdrawn before this livery appeared - the same applies to the 'County' 4-4-0*). http://www.vectis.co.uk/AuctionImages/476/573_l.jpg (Usual disclaimer re auction houses - they came up on Google). *As usual the GWR led the field - they were scrapping large four coupled locomotives while the lesser railways were still building them. Edited December 3, 2016 by Il Grifone 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Well, I have some progress to report. Four N2s up and running nicely and with the bodywork of each having had some attention regarding chips and scratches. Rather than aiming at getting the paintwork back into "as new" condition, I am aiming for a finish that loks as if the locomotives have been used but looked after well, so some flaws remain. First, the LNER green one, which needed very little done to it other than bending the couplers back into shape and touching up a bit of missing paint around the smoke box door, buffers and buffer beam and the steps: Second, the LMS one. This was purchased as a body only (it was in excellent condition and very cheap, so I couldn't resist it. That did mean, however, that I had to then find a chassis to buy, also at a reasonable price, which I did a few weeks later. It is though, from a BR example (a cycling lion one perhaps?) so it has the wrong type of pony wheels for a pre-nationalisation model. Third, A BR example with the early logo. As with the LNER one, it needed very little done to it other than bending the couplers back into shape and touching up a bit of missing paint around the smoke box door, buffers and buffer beam and the steps. And last, a later logo BR example. This started off as a very playworn early BR N2 which needed a bit more than retouching of the paintwork - about 25% of it ended up being repainted. I used Lawrence Hogg's (LHP Productions) "transfers" for lining and numbering. I had used his "transfers" for successfully renovating some very sad looking Gresley coaches that I picked up for next to nothing to go with my Sir Nigel Gresley. Having used them for coaches and now a locomotive, I have to say that I think they work better on coaches as, no matter how careful you are with a locomotive, you can still see where the adhesive paper ends. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 And it wasn't until I posted that photo of 69549 that I realised I had missed touching up the shanks of the buffers..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 There's no real problem changing the wheels on the LMS tank. They are the same as the wagon wheels on early chassis and just need a litle black paint.... Most are mazak, but the last ones used the sintered iron type. The diameter is slightly less so a slight adjustment to the coupling height may be necessary*. At least the driving wheels are the right type with the small crank pins. * IIRC there is a slight difference in the pony casting to compensate, but it is only slight. On another tack, someone had a lucky find! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-DUBLO-EDL7-TANK-LOCOMOTIVE-/302190941878?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40800%26meid%3D52d1d67419be43f7bb99ae65fe95d807%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D162345835660&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&autorefresh=true&nma=true&si=3tTQH4xAioVYhFdQLWfuYmkfd%252F8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc When I found this it was about £25 and I was tempted. It's not every day, one finds a pre-war tank in such excellent condition with paperwork. It's not a great problem to find a proper set of Dublo wheels to replace the Romford ones or to remove the outside third modification. However I never expected it to make so much. I would have wanted to see the thing before parting with all that cash. She appears to be pest free, but you can never tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) I've been trying to sort out my N2s, having recently added a further six rolling chassis to my collection. One or two are a bit dodgy so will probably supply wheels for something else. Obviously none of these had pony trucks, so I am in the market for some, but they seem to be fetching silly prices on eBay. Sometimes/usually more than I paid for the chassis (all six). I was thinking of manufacturing some from brass sheet - conveniently the block part is 1/2" x 3/8", so I might find some suitable channel section. The other pricey parts are the sprung front coupling (many eons ago I ordered one of these from Binns Road through my favourite toy shop* and was charged 2/6d for it) and the centre rail collector. Luckily both can be home constructed. There is no need for the front coupling to be sprung (the overhang is no more than that of the LWB underframe) and in fact the last ones used a standard plastic coupling. Armatures and brush gear are still reasonable, though here high prices can be paid (not by me!). During this procedure. I tried my first N2** on the track and to my surprise and horror failed to move. Luckily just a winding detached from the commutator and now she is again functional. She doesn't quite meet the specification of five laps in 30 seconds with four coaches, but I allow a few more seconds than the one allowed for repairs due to old age - there is a little play in the rear driving axle, but she has clocked up a considerable mileage over the years. * It was just a local shop in Bristol, but it stocked proper toys - Hornby and Tri-ang trains (and other items in Lines Bros. range of less interest - a clockwork Jabberwocky anyone?), Meccano, Dinky and Corgi toys, Britains, Mastermodels etc. figures..... (They must have had girls' toys too, but I wasn't interested!) Far more interesting and educational than the junk one finds in places like 'Toys-R-Us' today (or 'Toys-R-Over-Priced' according to 'Family Guy' ). They don't even stock proper trains! (Rant over!) ** A gloss finish 69567 from 1954 - the original body fell foul of an attempted conversion to a South Wales type GWR tank and the replacement LNER one (3/6d from the above toy shop) suffered repaints (stupidly) to BR black and back to green and then got lost. She at present has a matt 69567 and was converted to 2 Rail about the time of the green repaint. Subsequent failure of the armature meant she was put aside (no more Binns Road by then) and this probably accounts for the loss of the body. A decent gloss body is needed to restore her to near original condition, but is not a high priority. Edited January 14, 2017 by Il Grifone 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 I've just noticed that the chassis under the LMS body appears to have a matt finish. This means that it dates from late 1954/early 1955. The early ('53/4) BR livery locos had a gloss finish (thick varnish?). Several changes occured with the introduction of the 4MT tank in mid 1954 (I got one of the first ones for Xmas ). These were then applied to the rest of the range (all three of them!), the exact date presumably coinciding with reaching the bottom of the parts bin on the production line. These are the switch to matt finish, the finer gear with a higher reduction ratio this time, thicker crank pins and the coupling with the tabs top and bottom (LMC). Pedantic detail warning! Other changes involved the addition of a choke (now coil or inductor) to the suppressor network together with the change from the wax covered condenser (now capacitor), and the Duchess tender wheels had the spokes filled in (UGH! Why?). These latter were fitted to the N2 pony in place of the solid rolling stock wheels. As I said before I think there was a small alteration to the casting to compensate for the difference in diameter. I'll check, but I'll have to see which of mine have original ponies. Incidentally the Hornby (i.e. ex-Tri-ang) bogie wheels will fit. (My Flying Scotsman came with a bogie wheel missing and I had a spare 'Atholl' tender wheel which has been there ever since. One day, it will be sorted....). AFAIK all 'Montroses' had the filled in spokes, but I'm not sure of the date of the change in the suppressors. (Korean war supply problems will have affected this. I believe there was very little production in 1952. Possibly it was limited to sets - I received a 'Gresley' set for Xmas 1952, but in other years I received individual items. I believe I am correct in saying the first BR livery N2s had disc wheels and I think the cycling lion stayed on the N2 until the introduction of the 2 rail version 2217, appearing on the 3217. It is unlikely that many of the prototypes received the 'ferret and dartboard' as withdrawal of the class began about the same time. Two left facing lions i sextremely unlikely as scrapping was well in hand when this 'rethink' was introduced. For instance, 69550 went in 1958, before the introduction of her Dublo model - probably just after they'd ordered the transfers.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I'm not too concerned if the chassis is not a 100% perfect match for the body, as long as it looks right. I would quite happily run a pre-nationalisation N2 with a trailing wheels with the filled in "spokes" as chassis and other bits did get swapped about over the years due to repairs and whatnot. I wouldn't fit plastic wheels to one though.... Speaking of swapping mechanisms and bodies around, there's a pre-war GWR version on eBay at the moment with a post-war chassis (post-war couplings front and rear and disc wheels in the pony truck). It's currently up to £57 with 15 bids in and 14 hours to go. Cheap? Well, the paintwork does need a fair bit of restoration, although what is left is pretty original except for the smokebox, which appears to have been rather clumsily retouched. I think though, that what appears at first sight to be the cracking of the paint around the smokebox is more likely to be the disintegration of the mazak. I won't be bidding on this one. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PRE-WAR-Hornby-DUBLO-3-RAIL-EDL7-GWR-0-6-2-TANK-LOCOMOTIVE-/381926306141?hash=item58ec94f15d:g:DM4AAOSwA3dYfSlE GWR versions are so rare that they are (to me) unaffordable. After seeing basket cases go for ridiculous amounts, I decided to fabricate one from a badly play worn "cycling lion" N2. It's just needing painting now. I'll post a photo once it's done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 I'm not too concerned if the chassis is not a 100% perfect match for the body, as long as it looks right. I would quite happily run a pre-nationalisation N2 with a trailing wheels with the filled in "spokes" as chassis and other bits did get swapped about over the years due to repairs and whatnot. I wouldn't fit plastic wheels to one though.... Speaking of swapping mechanisms and bodies around, there's a pre-war GWR version on eBay at the moment with a post-war chassis (post-war couplings front and rear and disc wheels in the pony truck). It's currently up to £57 with 15 bids in and 14 hours to go. Cheap? Well, the paintwork does need a fair bit of restoration, although what is left is pretty original except for the smokebox, which appears to have been rather clumsily retouched. I think though, that what appears at first sight to be the cracking of the paint around the smokebox is more likely to be the disintegration of the mazak. I won't be bidding on this one. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PRE-WAR-Hornby-DUBLO-3-RAIL-EDL7-GWR-0-6-2-TANK-LOCOMOTIVE-/381926306141?hash=item58ec94f15d:g:DM4AAOSwA3dYfSlE GWR versions are so rare that they are (to me) unaffordable. After seeing basket cases go for ridiculous amounts, I decided to fabricate one from a badly play worn "cycling lion" N2. It's just needing painting now. I'll post a photo once it's done. The smokebox is indeed cracking up unfortunately, so definitely to avoid. Safety valve casings to convert N2s are available on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-New-brass-safety-valve-for-a-Hornby-dublo-062-n2-tank-to-make-a-GWR-tank-loco-/192061514045?hash=item2cb7c2213d:g:fZEAAOSwrklVWJNJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) Not Dublo, but here is a Trackmaster one. It can be seen to be rather more like an N2 than the Dublo version. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tri-ang-Railways-R-51-Precision-Clockwork-Side-Tank-Loco-Complete-With-Winding-K/232221504425?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20140122125356%26meid%3D774c7ae71cad441781b5379346a7b8b8%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D311791123698 All she needs is a pair of pony wheels (A Trackmaster wagon can supply) as the key is included. Edited February 1, 2017 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Safety valve casings to convert N2s are available on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-New-brass-safety-valve-for-a-Hornby-dublo-062-n2-tank-to-make-a-GWR-tank-loco-/192061514045?hash=item2cb7c2213d:g:fZEAAOSwrklVWJNJ Which is where I had sourced mine from, although I initially baulked at his rather high postal charges, I decided that this would be more suitable for the purpose than anything else, so I bought one (a couple of months or so ago) and here is the finished conversion: I used Humbrol "Authentic Rail Colour" for the green (it looks a bit lighter in the photos than it really is) which I found to have a tendency to dry before it had left the brush, although that might be partly due to the unpleasantly hot weather we're having at the moment. Nevertheless, as I was aiming for a finish suitable for an early 1950s toy rather than a fine scale model, I'm quite pleased with the result. And yes, I know it's not a genuine Dublo GWR "N2" number, but it was a transfer I had handy at the time and, in any case, it's not a genuine Dublo GWR "N2". 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 "Unpleasantly hot weather" is much better than "Unpleasantly cold wet and windy weather" IMHO. I often regret not applying for a job offer in the seventies - passage to Australia, assistance with house purchase and a Holden estate car with private use were offered! We decided it was a bit far from friends and family.... Let me guess! the transfers are from a Tri-ang-Hornby pannier tank? Pedantically the tops of the splashers should be black on a GWR locomotive, but Dublo got it wrong too, so that makes it OK When I'm restoring something I'm never sure whether to restore to the original model livery or to the correct version.... It might well be something I'd copy (and a Southern one too). I'm rather reluctant to run mine in case they get damaged. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 "Unpleasantly hot weather" is much better than "Unpleasantly cold wet and windy weather" IMHO. I often regret not applying for a job offer in the seventies - passage to Australia, assistance with house purchase and a Holden estate car with private use were offered! We decided it was a bit far from friends and family.... It was only 23c today, but it was 43c yesterday and 40.5 on Monday. Every week for a while now there have been two or three days where the maximum temperature goes over 38c (which, if I recall correctly, is 100 in the fahrenheit scale). Last month Sydney had its hottest ever month, with the highest maximum, mean and minimum temperatures since records began in 1858. I think I would rather be cold - it’s easier to warm yourself up than cool yourself down. I spent the winter of 1977/78 in Montrose in North East Scotland (I seem to remember it being described at the time as the worst winter in 30 years) so I know what cold, wet and windy weather is like. Let me guess! the transfers are from a Tri-ang-Hornby pannier tank? Pedantically the tops of the splashers should be black on a GWR locomotive, but Dublo got it wrong too, so that makes it OK When I'm restoring something I'm never sure whether to restore to the original model livery or to the correct version.... It might well be something I'd copy (and a Southern one too). I'm rather reluctant to run mine in case they get damaged. Yes, the transfers are from a Tri-ang-Hornby pannier tank. Maybe not right on a Dublo "N2" but they look right unless you're being pedantic and, if I was being pedantic, I would have a genuine Dublo GWR "N2" and not a replica of one. Funny thing about the tops of the splashers - initially I did paint them black, but changed them to green because they just didn't look right in black. I will have to get myself another N2 - I rather fancy finishing one in black with "BRITISH RAILWAYS" emblazoned on the side.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Fleece 30 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Like these? These are actually overlays made for me as I believe no "N2" was ever lined out with the words British Railways on the sides. I am not a fan of overlays but these were quick and served their purpose for me. Garry 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) I think it highly unlikely, as the lined black livery was introduced along with the cycling lion emblem. 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' usually replaced the company initials on the old liveries. In the case of an N2, this would be LNER green*, as on Dublo's trial illustrated in the 'bible', which has the short-lived regional letter prefix to the number. I understand that the only green N2 was 9522 (as portrayed by Wrenn - unfortunately she was fitted with condensing pipes). A picture of E9596 so lettered appears in 'Locomotives of British Railways', but it is hard to distinguish the body colour - it could be green or black. *Possibly black if a full repaint was not carried out. Of course the Trackmaster (69561) and Gaiety (46917) models both come ready lettered 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' in black livery. A discssion on early BR livery here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/16884-very-early-br-liveries/ From the last post (#41) it would appear that I was right the first time with the date of the introduction of the lion. EDIT That should be 69596 not E69596 Edited February 2, 2017 by Il Grifone 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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