RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted August 4, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 4, 2016 Just a warning for anyone wishing to fit DCC to the Hornby Adams Radial, it seems that the bogie pickups have conveniently been attached to the lighting output pins on the decoder socket (the driving wheel ones are ok), I actually witnessed flames coming out of a decoder so be warned! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Can confirm mine has wiring connections to pins 1,2,4,5,6,8 ready blow a decoder, however given the lack of space as far as I can make out for a 8 pin decoder without carving away part of the hidden moulded bunker I intend to remove the socket and hard wire a decoder in place - a rummage through locos unlikely to run again found a TCS M1 in split chassis Bachmann 03 which should do the job nicely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted August 9, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 9, 2016 I checked the back of the pins to make sure that there was no bridging solder which is common on Hornby sockets but didn't spot the wiring error. I stripped out the socket but there is one red and three black ones to the chassis. One of the black wires needs to go with the red wire. Note that the motor also has one red and one black wire. Stripping the socket put gives a little more space for the decoder. I hope to reassemble mine tonight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Just hardwiring mine and it needs a multimeter (or similar circuit tester) to check the pick up wires. Found that the ones that had been connected to the wrong terminals on the 8 pin socket were crossed polarity wise and if connected to the pick up wire that was on the same side of the socket a short circuit would have arisen. Seems that the wire that should be red has a white mark down it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonseasider Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 After blowing a decoder (before stumbling across this thread - bu**er!) I 've just been poking around with a meter. My sample of 30582 has socket connections as follows: Pin 1 - motor upper terminal Pin 5 - motor lower terminal Pin 8 - right-hand driving wheels Pin 4 - left-hand bogie wheels so far so good, but then we have: Pin 2 - right-hand bogie wheels and Pin 6 - left-hand drivers From the point of view of current collection, there's no connection on either side between the bogie & the driving wheels. Not ideal. From the point of view of DCC, there are two direct connections between track input & decoder output. Even less ideal & little wonder the chip went "pop"! At least I now know the electrical problems I'm facing (as well as the purely physical ones of actually fitting the chip into the available space. How easy does the team think it will be to get Hornby to refund the cost of the blown chip & correct the faulty wiring? Should I open an account with William Hill? In the meantime I'm off to see the Perseids with a glass of Scottish Central Heating for company . . . . PS in the middle of all this the cylinder drain-cocks fell out yet again! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I have just discovered this too. I had to send my first Radiall back to Hornby (bought via their website) as the poney truck pick-ups weren't touching the wheel rims. As such I didn't notice the short circuit! When the repaired loco came back the decoder stopped working and having checked with a multimeter I can conform the above! The driving wheels are correctly connected to pins 4 and 8 but the poney truck pick-ups are connected to 3 and 7. Hornby still seem to be dishing out faulty locomotives despite being aware of this problem, they said that they would repair the returned one so as not to sent me out another faulty one. Are they hoping people won't notice either through use of DC or lack of electrical pick-up on the poney truck? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 How easy does the team think it will be to get Hornby to refund the cost of the blown chip & correct the faulty wiring? Should I open an account with William Hill? It is the responsability of the retailer, not the manufacturer to compensate you for damage caused by faulty goods they have sold you. In my case Hornby is both manufacturer and retailer! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Does this not show up as an error on the programming track? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Mine didn't Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Wonder if the same Chinese factory responible for the Dapol 73? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
70E Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 I've just returned from holiday and awaiting me to open is a parcel with 30582 in it. Having read this thread and others on Rmweb I'm kind of wondering if it's worth opening at all and should send straight back for a refund! Experiences of parts loose in the packaging, cylinders dropping off, decoders not fitting without major surgery, incorrect wiring etc etc not a good advert for Hornby. If I do open it, I have a TCS uk plug in type decoder, so what should I look for before plugging it in and blowing it? If the bunker needs surgery , is it best to hard wire? I have a small digitrax decoder which may suit but would appreciate advice on which colour wire goes where, especially the bogie pickups? Any photos would be appreciated. Probably for a discussion elsewhere but by the manufacturer fitting a decoder socket makes the loco 'DCC ready' but you can't actually install decoder without some sort of surgery is it a slightly misleading statement? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 I've just returned from holiday and awaiting me to open is a parcel with 30582 in it. Having read this thread and others on Rmweb I'm kind of wondering if it's worth opening at all and should send straight back for a refund! Experiences of parts loose in the packaging, cylinders dropping off, decoders not fitting without major surgery, incorrect wiring etc etc not a good advert for Hornby. If I do open it, I have a TCS uk plug in type decoder, so what should I look for before plugging it in and blowing it? If the bunker needs surgery , is it best to hard wire? I have a small digitrax decoder which may suit but would appreciate advice on which colour wire goes where, especially the bogie pickups? Any photos would be appreciated. Probably for a discussion elsewhere but by the manufacturer fitting a decoder socket makes the loco 'DCC ready' but you can't actually install decoder without some sort of surgery is it a slightly misleading statement? No parts were loose on mind although I did discover one of the bunker front handrails had fallen off whilst the body was on the worktop. Also annoyingly after hard wiring I spotted a paint lump on one side of the dome - anyone any idea of a good match to the green if I rub it down? If it looks like wires are connected to any sockets other than those at the 4 corners then its plainly wired wrongly. If you think its okay then check the decoder on a programming track not the main. Whether the DP2X-UK will fit inside the body seems questionable from some postings. Personally I would rather hardwire than hack the body given the fragility of some parts which even if no where near the part cut away would knowing my luck get damaged. If you are hardwiring you really need a multimeter or similar tester to check the which wire is which on the loco. Once you have established what the wires are the orange and grey go to the motor and red and black to the track pick ups (2 wires each side). Normally I would strip out as much of Hornbys wiring as possible and hard wire direct to the relevant contacts where possible. In the case of this model the wiring is for once very neat so I made connections to the wiring around the position of the socket using heatshrink for insulation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bedding Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 No parts were loose on mind although I did discover one of the bunker front handrails had fallen off whilst the body was on the worktop. Also annoyingly after hard wiring I spotted a paint lump on one side of the dome - anyone any idea of a good match to the green if I rub it down? If it looks like wires are connected to any sockets other than those at the 4 corners then its plainly wired wrongly. If you think its okay then check the decoder on a programming track not the main. Whether the DP2X-UK will fit inside the body seems questionable from some postings. Personally I would rather hardwire than hack the body given the fragility of some parts which even if no where near the part cut away would knowing my luck get damaged. If you are hardwiring you really need a multimeter or similar tester to check the which wire is which on the loco. Once you have established what the wires are the orange and grey go to the motor and red and black to the track pick ups (2 wires each side). Normally I would strip out as much of Hornbys wiring as possible and hard wire direct to the relevant contacts where possible. In the case of this model the wiring is for once very neat so I made connections to the wiring around the position of the socket using heatshrink for insulation. May I enter a plea for one or more of the problem-solving pioneers in this case to post ample photographs onto this Forum page? I have made a provisional decision to wait for Hattons to bring 3125 to market, and buy one ready-chipped. Whilst this may appear to duck the issue, I still feel I need to know what the problems are. PB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonseasider Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 It is the responsability of the retailer, not the manufacturer to compensate you for damage caused by faulty goods they have sold you. In my case Hornby is both manufacturer and retailer! Yes, strictly speaking that's true but in this particular case is there really any point in getting back to the retailer? 1. From what others are saying, mine is not an isolated example. It seems that if I do return it to the retailer for replacement there's a good chance that I will get another with the same, or similar, faults. 2. #1 above assumes they have any remaining stock to provide a replacement - recent experience with Hornby suggests this probably won't be the case. 3. In view of #2 above, I'd sooner have a dodgy loco in need of rewiring than a credit card refund & an internet stock search with the probability of another dubious outcome. 4. As this is clearly a manufacturing fault, the manufacturer is ultimately responsible for the damage caused to the decoder. I would stress that I have nothing at all against Hornby, I have no axe to grind & I am not trying to bring them down. I admire many of their products (including the radial tank which, to my eye, is much better than the Oxford version), I support their efforts. Unfortunately things like this do their cause no favours at all. It's annoying that these, and similar, problems arise time & time again. I feel disappointed & frustrated but not angry. Rather it's saddening to see what are fundamentally excellent products being spoilt by fundamental manufacturing errors & quality control issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonseasider Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 If I do open it, I have a TCS uk plug in type decoder, Whether the DP2X-UK will fit inside the body seems questionable from some postings. I can only comment on my example, not on the production batch as a whole. That decoder will not fit without modification to the sloping bunker coal space front moulding. On mine, the DP2X-UK drops nicely into the socket until I try to re-fit the body. As soon as I do this I find that the rear end will not pull down correctly onto the chassis, leaving a very noticeable upward slope from the cab opening to the rear buffer plank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Whilst I accept it is an interesting model may I respectfully suggest, having read all of the above comments, the model is not fit for purpose and I for one would not expect to spent time putting right what should have been correct if offered for sale by a major manufacturer. No one should have to modify a brand new model ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted August 20, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2016 I've just returned from holiday and awaiting me to open is a parcel with 30582 in it. Having read this thread and others on Rmweb I'm kind of wondering if it's worth opening at all and should send straight back for a refund! Experiences of parts loose in the packaging, cylinders dropping off, decoders not fitting without major surgery, incorrect wiring etc etc not a good advert for Hornby. If I do open it, I have a TCS uk plug in type decoder, so what should I look for before plugging it in and blowing it? If the bunker needs surgery , is it best to hard wire? I have a small digitrax decoder which may suit but would appreciate advice on which colour wire goes where, especially the bogie pickups? Any photos would be appreciated. Probably for a discussion elsewhere but by the manufacturer fitting a decoder socket makes the loco 'DCC ready' but you can't actually install decoder without some sort of surgery is it a slightly misleading statement? The only way to check the wires is to strip the decoder socket out and use a multi meter. The two motor wires are easy but its the wheel pick ups which are harder as both pony truck pick up wires are black. I agree that all these faults should be correct and is a bit of a nightmare for those not happy with rewiring or carving the bunker ot get a decoder in. The day that I bought my one in North Devon it was tested albeit on a DC layout with very well laid track hence the pony truck mis wiring didnt not show up. it was only once back home when a decoder was fitted after checking for solder bridges on the decoder socket whihc is the most common fault but never thought to check if it was incorrectly wired. I find it hard that no one thought to try a few decoders including Hornbys own one (which when I tried it didnt fit) right back in the design stages let alone checking that a decoder works with the wiring on a number of production models. surely if they are tested that they work in the factory they should also be tested with a decoder which clearly doenst happen not just on Hornby but other manufacturers locos However I love a challenge and it runs very well now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Pity to see the Hornby model let down by poor quality control. The Oxford Rail model doesn't look half bad now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 A slightly more time consuming way of checking the socket would be to check each of the sockets from above and that only pins 1 and 5 are connected to the motor, pin 4 to the LH drivers and bogie wheels and pin 8 to RH drivers and bogies wheels. Pity to see the Hornby model let down by poor quality control. The Oxford Rail model doesn't look half bad now. Seem to recall some quality control issues being reported with them as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
70E Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Thank you to BH and others for you responses. Well I've unpacked it and test run it so far so good with no loose bits etc. Attached is a photo of it with the body off along with a diagram of how its wired to enable someone to advise if it is wired correctly or not. The diagram is looking from the underside rather than the top so #1 is top right rather than top left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 From your photograph all I can say is that one of the red wires is connected to the motor, this should be pin 1 (or 5). If the loco works in DC mode (with the blanking plug fitted) you can assume that the other red wire (pin 8) is connected to the right hand driving wheel pick up and the black wire in pin 2 is connected to the poney truck right hand side. On both of my models the wires connecting to the poney trick pick-ups were both black so a fairly safe assumption. The Hornby blanking plug connects these three pins together connecting the right hand pick-ups with the right hand motor pole. The other three black wires are the motor left pole (should be pin 5) and the left hand wheel pick ups, driving wheels and poney truck wheels (should be pin 4 only) Again this will work in DC mode as the Hornby blanking plug connects all three. To work in DCC pins 2 and 6 should not be connected to anything (used for lighting and other functions) You will need a multimeter to identify correctly which pin is connected to which pair of wheels and which motor poles. All I can tell you for certain is that you have faulty wiring, just as I did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 With so many people discvoring faulty wiring in their Hornby Adams Radial it begs the question when Hornby are going to act and warn their customers not to use it in DCC mode without at least first testing it and correcting it if necessary? For the time being we have heard nothing and the Radial has been in circulation for a couple of weeks now. Perhaps only certian models are concerned, mine were both R3335, the LSWR green model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonseasider Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Mine's R3334 - that's the 30582 version - so the problems are clearly not confined to just one identity. I've contacted Hornby regarding some of the problems & am awaiting a reply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Perhaps time for a new annual award for the worse implementation of "DCC Ready"; these presumably knock the Dapol 73 off top spot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
70E Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Once again many thanks for the responses with advice. I made a mistake mine is 30584 rather than 2 but clearly there are some QC issues. I shall be packing mine up later today for returning to Hornby for a replacement. Do Hornby refund postage in such cases? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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