Stoke a plan.

[71000]

fred

Edited April 7, 2018 by 71000

[Gerald Henriksen]

Certainly very interesting, and given the struggles of a whole bunch of manufactures at that time it doesn't surprise me.

 

 

So the penalty too Hornby, of not keeping a closer business eye on the plant who made their products, was near bankruptcy, and enforced chaos, while they thrashed around to get themselves sorted out.     

 

 

Well, Hornby also made a lot of other poor decisions which likely contributed more to their financial problems than just that, but it certainly wouldn't have helped.

[71000]

BASINGSTOKE 1958-67

 

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by 71000

[The Johnster]

It sounds like a bit of a soap opera (the Hornby thing I mean not Basingstoke, that sounds more like an epic saga) and those who are interested in boardroom politics as a spectator sport may well have been interested, though one doubts the full story will ever come out.  But if Hornby were evicted at short notice from the factory they were using and had to make do in an emergency with one too small for capacity (sounds like the original was far too big!) that was not as comprehensively equipped, whoever is to blame for that situation, I would comment that they have done well to survive the storm as they have.  Hornby are still turning out good stuff at very reasonable prices, and are at the top of their game in a way never before apparent in their history.

 

I get ansti when I see them with older stock that should be withdrawn but still keeps turning up in one form or another, and moan because I cannot access the plethora of loss making spares I used to be able to get hold of easily, but by and large have a lot of time for H, and quite a bit of my limited funds as well.  My locos and stock are heavily distributed among the blue box competition, and fine locos and stock they are too, but this is not so much preference or brand loyalty as that Bachmann just happen to make more stuff suitable to my layout, and along with Oxford, clearly have the advantage in 16ton minerals, an essential on a South Wales layout based in the 50s.  Were Hornby to turn up with a 94xx or, at the moment, a decent 8750, or a properly retooled and reasonably scale 2721, I'd have one like a shot, along with any non-gangwayed GW coach that wasn't a B set, confident that the model would be realistic, reliable, and run well at a competitive price.  I am in the market for a new Railroad 14xx when they turn up, though I moaned very loudly about this model when I first heard about it, not realising it was a very improved beast over the antediluvian Airfix that is it's direct ancestor.

 

But I am a grumpy old git, and get antsi anyway.  If anyone takes any notice of me, that's their lookout...

Edited September 30, 2017 by The Johnster

[Gerald Henriksen]

But if Hornby were evicted at short notice from the factory they were using and had to make do in an emergency with one too small for capacity (sounds like the original was far too big!) that was not as comprehensively equipped, whoever is to blame for that situation, I would comment that they have done well to survive the storm as they have

 

Worth noting that it is not an if.  Around that time period a whole bunch of manufacturers of model trains (from around the world) were suddenly dropped as customers of that factory, and it left them all scrambling.

[71000]

BASINGSTOKE 1958-67

 

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by 71000

[71000]

BASINGSTOKE 1958-67

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by 71000

[71000]

BASINGSTOKE 1958-67

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by 71000

[GRUNFOS]

BASINGSTOKE IN "OO" 1958-67

 

BR lozenge Southern.gif

 

Heaps of timber and a right Charlie !

 

Another baseboard has been added this week, and also some trackwork to last weeks baseboard. So I'm counting down, as in Spain everything seems to be done backwards.  You may have noticed if your keeping up with this epic saga that each new baseboard is numbered one less than the previous one, and this weeks addition is numbered 19. So another 18 to go ! 

 

Baseboard 19. 29-9-17 (01).JPG

Above: A general view of the workshop, showing the latest baseboard (Board 19) nearest, and others constructed since June attached behind. Against the left wall more racked up baseboards of those completed between January and June. And not forgetting the most important item, the trusty kettle and British tea sitting on a pile of 12mm plywood sheets !

Baseboard 19. 29-9-17 (02).JPG

Above: A close up of the new board 19. As yet just a flat deck. The three holes cut in the backscene board attached to last weeks Board 20, are left to right: The Reading-Basingstoke line at a higher level. The Up slow and Up Fast entrance centre, and the Down Fast and Down slow exit. 

 

The latest baseboard (number 19) has the exits from the Fiddle Yard, which will be disguised by a road overbridge in the case of the four track mainline from Waterloo to Basingstoke. The higher level Reading to Basingstoke route will exit from a tunnel pass through a short cutting before running out onto an embankement. This line will also very slowly descend on a gradient of 1 in 150 or so, until it approaches Basingstoke station where it will actually enter another cutting, before reaching the actual junction, at the London end of the station platfroms.

 

Baseboard 19. 29-9-17 (04).JPG

Above:A close up of the backscene board, with the front of a Hornby Schools class loco on the Down Fast exit track. Just visible on the baseboard top, are some rough markings for the tracks to be laid on this board. 

 Baseboard 20 on 29-9-17 (03).JPG

Above: An aerial view of last weeks Board 20, revealing the track laying that is progressing behind the backscene board seen in the previous photo. The Schools class loco is on the 1 in 50 down gradient between the Down Southampton storage tracks to the left, and the exit to the Down Fast and slow lines.

 

As seen the new baseboard 19 is currently just flat. The screen with the Fiddle Yard exits cut in it, is actually fixed to the end of Board 20. It is Board 20 that I have been laying track on for the past couple of days. The steep 1 in 50 gradient which trains descend, as seen on the right in most pictures, with a strategically placed Schools class 4-4-0 on it, has panned out according to the plan. The other gradient rising at 1 in 100 with a Lord Nelson 4-6-0 half way up, has as I suspected during construction of Board 20 spilled out just a little further than planned, and will cause a minor problem of disguising this on the new Board 19.

 

Construction to 29-9-17 (07).JPG

Above: From the opposite side of Board 20 to the previous shot, and immediately behind the gradient the Schools loco is on, are the new supports for what will be the Reading-Basingstoke tracks. Behind and above the Schools can just be made out a GWR 28xx 2-8-0 which is actually sitting on the Down Reading-Basingstoke track. 

Construction to 29-9-17 (09).JPG

Above: A closer view of the GWR 28xx 2-8-0 on the Down Reading-Basingstoke track, and behind and to its right a Dapol Class 73/1 Electro-Diesel, in one of the Down Southampton line storage tracks. Just above the 28xx is a Class 03 0-6-0 Diesel shunter in one of the two Reading-Basingstoke local train sidings. The locomotives have been placed to help give a better scale to the sheer size of the Fiddle Yard.

 

 

The locomotives dotted about in this weeks pictures are intended to help give an impression of the sheer size of the Fiddle Yard. Of which only three-quarters of the Fiddle Yard baseboards are currently set up. The other part previously built along with the little Oakley station and Battledown flyover and Worting Junction were completed back in June and are racked up. These can be glimpsed in some pictures to the left.

 

 

Construction to 29-9-17 (05).JPG

Above: Switching to the other side of the baseboards from the previous shot, with the 28xx in the centre background, and an S15 4-6-0 6F in the foreground actually sitting on the last Fiddle Yard storage tracks just laid, and a part of the Down Salisbury line storage group. Just infront of the S15 is the single track that climbs at 1 in 100 to the Up Southampton storage sidings, and against the baseboard edge the two tracks leading to the Up Salisbury line storage tracks.  

Construction to 29-9-17 (12).JPG

Above: Moving to the fire exit end of the layout (seen in the first photo above) the camera is now pointing towards the most recent board which is furthest away. The two nearest locos, both exhibiting Nine Elms-Exeter freight headcodes, are an S15 on the Baseboard edge elongated siding No1, and an H15 4-6-0 4P5F loco on the access track to sidings 2-6. These being the Up Salisbury line storage group. A Lord Nelson is posed on the 1 in 100 gradient, that leads to the Up Southampton storage tracks. 

 

So the Fiddle Yard storage tracks are now complete, and the exit roads are currently being installed. The upper level Reading to Basingstoke line support timberwork, can't yet be installed on the current boards until the lower deck trackwork is in place, although the supports for this upper deck are now in place. A GWR 28xx 2-8-0 is strategically placed on the exit track from the Inter-regional sidings that serve the Reading to Basingstoke line. Sitting in the background is a Dapol class 73/1 Electro-Diesel, looking rather lost in the mass of 16 sidings on this side of the Fiddle Yard. It is positioned at the exit from the Waterloo to Southampton line storage tracks.

 

Construction to 29-9-17 (13).JPG

Above: In this shot we are right at the Fire exit end of the workshop, with the 6 Up Salisbury line storage tracks counting from the baseboard edge inwards. Followed by the 4 long EMU terminating sidings, and just visible their exit track disappearing under the upper deck in the centre of the photo. 

Construction to 29-9-17 (14).JPG

Above; Having moved a couple of feet to the left from the previous shot, we are now looking at the upper deck 6 storage tracks of the Up Southampton line. These tracks and the points and their point motors have already been wired up. 

 

In a couple of shots, a Hornby S15 and an H15 are posed close together, on the two parallel "Up" lines that enter the "Up" Salisbury line sidings. The track nearest the baseboard edge (with the S15 on it) which enters the Fiddle Yard as the "Up Local" was deliberately kept seperate to allow one longer storage siding which will allow stock to be added or removed from the layout at the beginning and end of shows, when stock has to be unloaded or repacked into storage cases. With a fleet of over 600 items, the problem of getting this amount of stock onto and off the layout safely and in a reasonable time, also had to be given some considerable thought. Packing and Unpacking every item of rolling stock from its commercial packaging, was simply not an option, as it would take literally hours. So I already have enough converted "Camera cases" for over 100 locos, and a lot more will definately be required for the rest of the locomotive fleet, carriages and wagons. The cases also have the advantage of significantly reducing the space in transit required for the stock which I prefer to take in my car, and not have to load into the Juggernaut that will be required for the layout !       

 

Construction to 29-9-17 (15).JPG

Above; Having taken another step to the left from the previous shot, we are now looking at the lower deck 6 storage tracks of the Down Salisbury sidings, with the seventh track popping out from under the upper deck being the exit road from the 4 EMU terminating sidings. 

Construction to 29-9-17 (16).JPG

Above: Moving a couple more feet to the left from the previous shot, the other half of the Fiddle Yard, all at the upper deck level is seen here, with a rather lonely looking Class 73/1 Electro Diesel in the distance. Now just imagine all these tracks crammed with 12-13 coach trains !

 

As the number of Fiddle Yard tracks required for this very busy 4 track mainline layout, which became busier on Summer Saturdays the chosen day for layout operations. Careful examination of original Summer Saturday timetables for the period led to the requirement for at least 36 full 12-13 coach train length sidings. As I'm not 7ft tall, I realised my arms weren't long enough to reach across so many tracks, and the only solution was to split the Fiddle Yard down the middle. The Fiddle Yard baseboards are therefore 850mm wide with a 800mm wide space between. The final count for Fiddle yard tracks, having squeezed in a couple of extras since drawing up the plans, is now 40. There being 6 through sidings for each of the four mainline tracks. 5 for each of the two Reading - Basingstoke Inter-regional tracks. Four long terminating sidings for EMU's and the 12 coach Bournemouth Belle, and now two short terminating sidings for the Reading - Basingstoke locals.

 

Construction to 29-9-17 (22).JPG

Above: Having now climbed on top of a high stool we are looking down on the Lord Nelson on the 1 in 100 gradient, and the S15 and H15. All three locos are on the three incoming "Up" direction lines, feeding the two groups of "UP" sidings. Only the Up Inter-regional sidings are on the other side of the central divide, over near the little diesel shuner seen in the next shot. 

Construction to 29-9-17 (23).JPG

Above: A final shot of the Fiddle yard looking towards the fire exit, with another S15 in the foreground and correctly showing a Waterloo-Plymouth headcode as its sitting in the Down Salisbury line sidings. 

 

The desire to include Worting Junction and Battledown flyover on the layout, was done for a number of reasons. First the actual junction and its Flyover creates and interesting scenic item (trains passing over other trains) at a point on the layout which would have been otherwise less interesting. i.e just four tracks amongst the fields. The position of the flyover also helps to disguise the 90 degree turn at this corner. Further the junction actually allows two seperate routes to diverge beyond the junction, which gives more meaning to the overall layout operation, and a little more meaning to the SR 6 position route sensitive headcodes used. Even more Battledown flyover generates a second deck mainly in the Fiddle Yard, which itself allows further flyovers in the Fiddle Yard. This very conveniently obviates the need for complex flat junctions in the Fiddle Yard, which would otherwise cause lots of conflicting movements and delay layout operation at shows.

 

 

And this weeks "right Charlie"

Hopefully you have guessed by now, that the "right Charlie" is of course a Bulleid Q1 5F 0-6-0. I think I have more than enough freight locos now in my fleet, as freight was conspicious by its absence on Summer Saturdays at Basingstoke. Freight had mostly scuttled into the nearest freight yard by 06.30 on the mainlines to Bournemouth and Exeter. As the layout timetables are based closely on the real ones (1958-67) for each of the ten Summer Saturdays. And the layout timetables concertrate on the hours 06.30 until 19.00, by which time the large number of tourist trains had passed. So a little freight will have to be added at the beginning and end of each session. The idea being that this provides an excuse to fill each of the three goods yards around Basingstoke station with freight. This will then get shunted by various operators such as the loco shed operator inbetween making locomotives dizzy on the turntable, before it then gets sent back to the Fiddle Yard at the end of each session !    

 

33006 Q1 Special edition (01).JPG

Above: A nice side view of the Limited Edition Q1 recently released by "Rails of Sheffield". Clearly seen is the addition on this model of the working mechanical lubricator actuation lever connected to the front wheel centre crank. This shot also reveals the closed up loco to tender coupling. 

 

This latest addition to my steam loco fleet, is the "Rails of Sheffield" new Limited Edition item, produced by Hornby specially for this shop. Although Hornby have also re-released this item themselves as part of their regular range, they have not added the missing lubricator operated by a crank from the front (drivers side) axle, as on the "Limited Edition" model. This rather noticeable accessory was the main reason I bought the Limited edition item. As with all my steam locos the model has already been across my "workbench" for a little "upgrading". Like most of my steam models I decided it needed a little extra weight, and inside the Q1 model there is bags of free space, on a mainly flat metal floor, which forms the flat underside of the firebox, boiler, smokebox area, of these unusual looking locomotives. So 60g of lead shot was simply superglued to the floor.

 

33006 Q1 Special edition (02).JPG

Above: A higher angle on the new Q1 model, again revealing the additional accessory of the lubricator rod and its crank, and some real coal in the tender.  

 

The loco was then rewired, to remove the DCC blanking plate, now in the tender. In the process more than half the wiring provided, which becomes superfluous, was removed. Rewiring simply involves taking the two wires from the loco wheels and the two wires from the tender wheels direct to the motor. This then allows the loco to be cleaned and tested more easily as the tender does not need to be present for such maintenance.

 

33006 Q1 Special edition (04).JPG

Above: 33006 a Feltham loco in my era, here displaying a Basingstoke to Willesden (LMR) freight headcode. 

 

I should add that although the model was supplied as the first of the fleet number 33001, this was a Guildford loco in my period, and I wanted a Feltham allocated loco. Feltham freight locos appearing at Basingstoke more commonly than Guildford ones. So 33001 has already had an identity crisis and become 33006.     

 

33006 Q1 Special edition (05).JPG

Above: A side view of the firemans side of the loco.

 

As this model came with virtually all accessories already fitted, including a proper front screwlink metal coupling, about all I needed to do was pull out the tender toy coupling and clip a Kadee No19 in its place. I then decided I should get rid of the plastic coal from the tender, although this item didn't want to come out at first. So the tender now has a small amount of real coal, and probably not enough to get back to Feltham on !   

 

33006 Q1 Special edition (07).JPG

Above: A rear view of the tender with the fire irons in their usual running position storage housing. Real coal in the tender and a working Kadee Buckeye coupling in place of that silly toy thing !

 

Finally the bar coupling between loco and tender was shortened by drilling a new screw hole just inside one of those provided and then snipping off the excess. As the excess would have snagged either the tender or loco whichever way it is reinstalled. The tender cabside sliding weather plates, which actually work on the model, are very nice, but unfortunately prone to falling out and getting lost. So I fed a drop of liquid cement into the lower grove that each weather plate slides in, which means they are now rigid, and won't hopefully disappear.    

 

33006 Q1 Special edition (08).JPG               

Above: A final view of the Q1 from above, showing the reduced gap between loco and tender after shortening the coupling.

 

And finally, as it is the Museums annual open weekend with lots of extra sideshows and activities, next weekend 7th and 8th of October. And I'm told that I'm "demonstrating how to make model things", I'm going to have to spend much of next week moving baseboards around to get at the two boards I'm taking upto the Museum for the show. This will include the one baseboard I have already added scenery too, for just such ocassions. So I'm not sure whether much progress will be made to the actual layout. However I should at least get some good pictures of the goings on. This may include the arrival of the only surviving original "Talgo" articulated train set, in its original 1970's stainless steel with red window band livery. One of the Barcelona clubs usually hires it to come to our open weekend.

 

      33006 Q1 0-6-0 @ Feltham 16-12-62.jpg

Above: 33006 Class Q1 5F 0-6-0 at Feltham shed on 16-12-62. Photographed only days before the terrible big freeze of winter 62-63 set in, when locos like these melted their way through the snow to rescue diesel and electric trains.

 

The Duke 71000

      

Epic project keep it up. Not seen any other loco with an electrification patch on its sandbox before.

Paul

[71000]

BASINGSTOKE 1958-67

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by 71000

[71000]

BASINGSTOKE 1958-67

 

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by 71000

[Joseph_Pestell]

Very useful content there on pointwork construction. Worth a thread of its own.

[71000]

Very useful content there on pointwork construction. Worth a thread of its own.

Joseph

    

Edited April 7, 2018 by 71000

[71000]

BASINGSTOKE 1958-67

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by 71000

[71000]

BASINGSTOKE 1958-67

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by 71000

[glo41f]

Wow!

 

Thank you so much for sharing this epic project with us. Although not a Southern type by birth location, I spent many happy holidays in Wessex and recall Basingstoke station in its prime. I am awestruck by your productivity and the speed with which you are able to write it all up. I love the ambience and the scene you are creating. Truly amazing and you seem to be having so much fun with our Spanish friends too.

 

Thank you

 

Martin Long

[Jack P]

Duke, 

 

As stated above, this is excellent, and I do sometimes tend to forget both the size and the caliber of what you have going on here. Truly awe inspiring! Rather green over all of your coaches. I also appreciate all of the effort that goes into each and every post you put up, You've posted a few times on my thread, and you seem to have an unlimited supply of reference pictures and information, which only adds to any thread you choose to post in!

 

Looking forward to your next update!

 

Jack

[Tony Teague]

Hi Duke

 

I just discovered your amazing layout & thread, thanks to a reference to it by Jack P.

Having worked all the way through it I am just stunned by the scale of the ambition, as well as by the speed with which you work through detailed loco and coach modifications.

My biggest regret with my own layout has been my decision to go for 2'6" radius curves which has seriously compromised my ability to add certain details below the footplate of locos, so I especially admire what you have been doing in this area.

By coincidence I am also currently building (rather slowly) a Bournemouth 6 car dining set and so I have found your recent posts particularly interesting.

I shall now continue to watch and follow with great interest.

 

Tony

Edited December 12, 2017 by Tony Teague

[Buhar]

I tend to avoid "me too" posts, but I totally concur with Tony's comments above.  I too am late to the thread, directed here by Stephen (Compound2632) and I am very impressed.  Not only are you building in another language, it appears this is your second go at that.  What I find particularly useful are the precise figures you give for points, curves, haulage, gradients and the like.  I am gestating a large layout and this sort of guidance is invaluable.  I also really enjoy your writing style and, even though the Southern is not an area of interest, I find myself interested.

[71000]

Hi Duke

 

I just discovered your amazing layout & thread, thanks to a reference to it by Jack P.

Having worked all the way through it I am just stunned by the scale of the ambition, as well as by the speed with which you work through detailed loco and coach modifications.

My biggest regret with my own layout has been my decision to go for 2'6" radius curves which has seriously compromised my ability to add certain details below the footplate of locos, so I especially admire what you have been doing in this area.

By coincidence I am also currently building (rather slowly) a Bournemouth 6 car dining set and so I have found your recent posts particularly interesting.

I shall now continue to watch and follow with great interest.

 

Tony

Tony

Thankyou very much for your comments. It is a bit of a mammoth task, and I just posted on Jack. P's thread, that I really need him to emmigrate to Spain, so he can apply his wonderful weathering skills to some of my mass of stock....

 

71000

[71000]

I tend to avoid "me too" posts, but I totally concur with Tony's comments above.  I too am late to the thread, directed here by Stephen (Compound2632) and I am very impressed.  Not only are you building in another language, it appears this is your second go at that.  What I find particularly useful are the precise figures you give for points, curves, haulage, gradients and the like.  I am gestating a large layout and this sort of guidance is invaluable.  I also really enjoy your writing style and, even though the Southern is not an area of interest, I find myself interested.

"Buhar"

Thankyou for your comments. Uh, well, yes, I am under a bit of pressure. I told the Museum boss, "basically it should take two years to build". So he persuaded the Mayor to lend me an Industrial unit for two years. So I've got until around January 2019, to get the baseboards built, track laid, wired and hopefully a start on the scenery. I had thought, I might get some Spanish to help. But it transpires, although they are willing, they haven't a clue how to even hold a saw. The boss then suggested I train them to build a Spanish HO layout. So I have that job in hand as well.  So I am just hoping it all pans out in the end......

 

A last ditty. A BR Traction Inspector once said to me, as I was driving an EMU around the nasty sharp bends approaching Waterloo. "Every degree of curvature (in the track) requires an increase of power by the square root to negotiate the bend." As this physical law applies equally to a model as it does the real thing. You can then understand why even a large steam loco model may have insufficient power to haul 10 coaches around clip together type curves. Such stresses will of course reduce the life expectantcy of the motor. Hence my reluctance to use anything less than 5ft radius. 

 

71000     

[4railsman]

Hello 71000

In post #6 you mention your plans for controlling your new layout by TCC, as noted below:-

 

TCC a NEW system of layout control

As the layout will use a new system of wiring known as TCC (Track Circuit Control), which is based closely on the real life interaction of trains and signals. TCC has real life type electrical track circuits in the rails in addition to the supply to move the trains. This allows full interlocking between signalling, points, and trains, and hopefully will be virtually foolproof and prevent my Spanish operators crashing my beautiful models.

My layout is DC throughout, like you intend for Basingstoke and for exactly the same reasons.

 

Can this new system be installed on to an existing partly built layout that is now at the Signalling Stage? 

 

If so, I would be grateful if you could point me in the direction where I can find further information, as searches on RMweb and various search engines have not identified any relevant websites.

 

Many thanks.

[71000]

BASINGSTOKE 1958-67

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by 71000

[4railsman]

Thanks 71000 for your response to my query on Track Circuit Control and for the extremely detailed explanation.

 

I have read it through twice so far, and will now print it out so I can see how it can be done on my own partially rebuilt layout.

 

With regard to the relays you have used, are these of the NON-LATCHING variety (eg Varley VP4/TC CAB/26 700 ohm) as I have quite a few of those spare after installing others alongside the newly installed Cobalt IP Digital Point Motors (on DC).

 

Incidentally, I had a supply of used relay bases for these relays, but some of the very thin connector pins broke off and rendered the bases useless for further use. What I did was to buy some individual "push-on" insulated crimp connectors for fitting onto the wires and then pushing them directly onto the relay which was held in a very tight fitting 3/4" plastic central heating type pipe clip. The only issue with this arrangement is that you have up to 14 wire ends to change if the relay proves problematic at a later date!

 

Thanks for sharing your breadth of knowledge on this subject for the benefit of other railway modellers, and I look forward to following your Basingstoke project long into the future.

[71000]

"4railsman"

Edited April 7, 2018 by 71000