Building 00-SF for the first time - Advice please!

[martin_wynne]

DCC Concepts 00-SF gauges no longer showing in stock (they were earlier).

Martin.

[John B]

As C&L are currently on shutdown due to the acquiisition and move, is there another source of OO-SF templates and gauges?

 

I've looked at the templates on DCC Concepts' site, and they are clearly not 16.2mm..

[martin_wynne]

As C&L are currently on shutdown due to the acquiisition and move, is there another source of OO-SF templates and gauges?

 

Hi John,

 

00-SF templates can be easily printed yourself using Templot (free). Download from: http://templot.com/downloads/download.htm

 

Here is how to easily print a template from Templot without knowing anything else about the program:

 

 http://templot.com/companion/your_first_printed_template.html

 

00-SF is called 4-SF in Templot. Remember to set that first before doing anything else.

 

00-SF gauges are available from DCC Concepts. However for myself I would much prefer the C&L gauges with separate check gauges. You may be able to obtain them from the C&L stand at shows until their web site re-opens.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

Edited May 2, 2017 by martin_wynne
link added

[John B]

Thanks Martin, I'll give Templot a go, finally!

 

Seems I'll need to wait for C&L's website for the gauges, as attending a show they're at isn't a possibility in the near future as I live in the USA. Being used to Scalefour Society and EMGS gauges, I'd also prefer separate check gauges.

[hayfield]

John

 

C&L do not do 00sf templates, in 00 gauge they are standard 16.5 mm

 

As for 00sf gauges DCC concepts do a range, make sure you order the correct ones as they do one for code 75 bullhead and another for code 82 flatbottom

[MikeH_83]

Nick

 

Sometimes 3 point gauges have a slight problem with chaired track, in that the chairs hold the rail at a 1-20 cant. If the gauges hold the rail vertical once they are removed the chairs relax back to the 1-20 cant thus gauge narrowing

 

The other thing is that the check rail should be set using a check rail gauge, thus pulling the wheel flange away from the tip of the vee

 

Thirdly check the wheel back to backs

 

Could also be that the wing rails are slightly out of align

 

I know this was quite an old post,  But if that is a problem with the 3 point gauges then which is best to use on normal trackwork?  I'm planning mine to be full 4-sf built on a long 6ft radius curve.  Also does anyone know of a supplier for ply sleepers that are of the shorter length like the peco rtr track?  The only one's iv'e found are the prototypical sized ones but then it doesn't quite look right because of the narrower gauge.

 

Cheers

[hayfield]

Mike

 

You can have the same issue with roller gauges, if the slot is either too tight and or too deep. The issue manifests itself more with 3 point gauges on sharper radii as they are supposed to gauge widen if necessary. The issue is not so much with the gauge being inaccurate, rather than the chairs holding the rail (correctly) at an angle rather than upright, which is fine for soldered track

 

Just make a test piece of track using the gauge, preferably on ply. Let it set  for a few hours with the gauge off so the chairs can relax, then check. Not much you cal do with a roller gauge unless you have a lathe. The depth of the 3 point gauge is important and the minimum gauge must be set at 16.2 mm, but the outer parts of the slot can be eased slightly if too tight.

 

The head of the rail must be able to rotate in the slot, but still be a close fit.

 

For straight track a block gauge is useful, a block of material about 20 mm x 30 mm with either a central piece 16.2 mm wide, or 2 lines each slightly under 2 mm wide with the outer edges 16.2 mm

 

 

This is an EM gauge one which has been milled, though very easy to make a simple one in plasticard.

 

Just lay one rail straight, once set use this gauge, if the base is made in clear styrene then even easier to use. For use with plain track then a solid centre is OK

 

The one on the photo has been milled with thin bars, used to set the stock rail in a switch or set wing rails

[MikeH_83]

Thanks very much.  I shall try doing a test piece and see if the gauge is still correct.  I hope it will be otherwise it could be a right pain going 4-sf and might haveto just do that through the points and 00 elsewhere

[gordon s]

Mike, the whole of ET has been built with large radius curves in 00 flexible track from SMP and hand built pointwork in 00-SF.  You can't see the join and it runs perfectly....

[martin_wynne]

if that is a problem with the 3 point gauges then which is best to use on normal trackwork?  I'm planning mine to be full 4-sf built on a long 6ft radius curve. ...  ... ... Also does anyone know of a supplier for ply sleepers that are of the shorter length like the peco rtr track?

 

Hi Mike,

 

You won't need the 3-point gauges for a 6ft curve in 4-SF. No gauge-widening is needed at that radius -- the ordinary roller gauges will be fine.

 

Whichever gauges you use, if you use functional chairs (which hold the rail at 1:20 inclination) you need to ensure that the gauge slot engages only the head of the rail, like this:

 

If your gauge slots are too deep and engage the full depth of the rail (thus forcing it vertical), simply put some filler in the slots so that they don't. The full-depth slots are intended for soldered copper-clad construction.

 

Brian Lewis at TimberTracks does laser-cut 8ft (32mm) plywood sleepers for 00, but it is an expensive way to get them. Why not simply use an NWSL-style Chopper to cut 32mm lengths from 3.3mm plywood strip? (available from EMGS and Scalefour Soc)

 

TimberTracks 00 sleepers, code TOOPT101 at: http://www.timbertracks.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=8_12

 

He also does ready-spaced plywood sleeper bases for bullhead track panels, but that is an even more expensive option. It is very difficult to remove the webs between the sleepers (to allow ballasting) without damaging the assembled track.

 

NWSL Chopper:

linked from https://cdn3.volusion.com/ztna9.tft5b/v/vspfiles/photos/NWSL-49-4-2.jpg?1456472651

 

linked from: https://av8rmongo.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/dsc_0005.jpg

 

Lots of similar guillotine devices available if you do some Googling.

 

You do seem to be looking for difficulties where there are none.

 

Martin.

Edited May 7, 2017 by martin_wynne
updated link

[hayfield]

Thanks very much.  I shall try doing a test piece and see if the gauge is still correct.  I hope it will be otherwise it could be a right pain going 4-sf and might haveto just do that through the points and 00 elsewhere

 

 

Mike

 

There are the purists who believe the gauge should remain constant and there are those like Gordon who reduce the gauge through the crossings, but for plain track use RTR flexitrack, firstly for ease, also for expense and for medium let alone large size layouts the cost difference is massive then there is the time it takes to build it

 

On the other hand on small layouts especially in highly visible areas chairs with keys in are stunning

 

I demonstrate track building at shows, unless you pick up the turnout and look along the line, the gauge narrowing of the stockrails through the common crossing is not apparent, the check rail gaps are though. Its horses for courses, for me its spending the extra on the correct chairs within turnouts and crossings that makes the difference, but each to their own

[MikeH_83]

Hi Mike,

 

You won't need the 3-point gauges for a 6ft curve in 4-SF. No gauge-widening is needed at that radius -- the ordinary roller gauges will be fine.

 

Whichever gauges you use, if you use functional chairs (which hold the rail at 1:20 inclination) you need to ensure that the gauge slot engages only the head of the rail, like this:

 

If your gauge slots are too deep and engage the full depth of the rail (thus forcing it vertical), simply put some filler in the slots so that they don't. The full-depth slots are intended for soldered copper-clad construction.

 

Brian Lewis at TimberTracks does laser-cut 8ft (32mm) plywood sleepers for 00, but it is an expensive way to get them. Why not simply use an NWSL-style Chopper to cut 32mm lengths from 3.3mm plywood strip? (available from EMGS and Scalefour Soc)

 

TimberTracks 00 sleepers, code TOOPT101 at: http://www.timbertracks.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=8_12

 

He also does ready-spaced plywood sleeper bases for bullhead track panels, but that is an even more expensive option. It is very difficult to remove the webs between the sleepers (to allow ballasting) without damaging the assembled track.

 

NWSL Chopper:

linked from https://cdn3.volusion.com/ztna9.tft5b/v/vspfiles/photos/NWSL-49-4-2.jpg?1456472651

 

linked from: https://av8rmongo.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/dsc_0005.jpg

 

Lots of similar guillotine devices available if you do some Googling.

 

You do seem to be looking for difficulties where there are none.

 

Martin.

 

Thanks Martin,  I have the 4-sf gauges that were sold at C&L, I will check next time im up in the loft.  Well that certainly removes any worry from making it all in 4-sf so there's nothing stopping me now.  I shall look at buying a cutter like that and some plywood strip and just get on with it that way and save me some pennys.  Is balsa wood any good for sleepers or is ply the better option?  My Layout is quite large at 3x 14ft sides so I was tempted at the flexi track route but plastic does look.. well like plastic.

[hayfield]

Mike

 

For what its worth ply strip is quite cheap, balsa is too soft and would be expensive to boot

[MikeH_83]

Thanks, I shall use that then

[dhjgreen]

...I was tempted at the flexi track route but plastic does look.. well like plastic.

And ply looks like ply!  

 

Many people weather their track to make it look better.  I use C&L in EM and have sprayed all my flexi track with track grime.

[MikeH_83]

And ply looks like ply!  

 

Many people weather their track to make it look better.  I use C&L in EM and have sprayed all my flexi track with track grime.

Well that certainly is another option and would be quicker,  Having played around with it though I do struggle to get a nice colour when using flexi

[dhjgreen]

Well that certainly is another option and would be quicker,  Having played around with it though I do struggle to get a nice colour when using flexi

Found on here, I use 4 parts matt brown to 1 part matt black. Works for me, but others paint the rail differently. The paint has been in place for about 5 years now with no sepecial preparation. Warning: Humbrol paint from 5 years ago, may need a trial now based on comments on here, another brand possibly?

[Stephen Freeman]

If you do go down the plywood route, I fnd that Black Ash Cuprinol Fence Paint gives a good rendition.

[Stephen Freeman]

Found on here, I use 4 parts matt brown to 1 part matt black. Works for me, but others paint the rail differently. The paint has been in place for about 5 years now with no sepecial preparation. Warning: Humbrol paint from 5 years ago, may need a trial now based on comments on here, another brand possibly?

You need to look for the Union Jack on the tin.