Eastbrook - 4mm BR/Southern layout

[Doolish]

Having been an O gauge modeller for some time I really miss the oportunity to 'run trains' as I have to rely on my clubs layout for any running of my loco's coaches etc.

 

Once I made the decision to build, I realised the importance of listing out the criterea required so that most of it can be planned in detail before any physical building takes place. My main criteria are:

 

• Station capable of taking a 5 coach train plus loco.
• Hidden fiddle yard to provide starage of the same length.
• Peco code 75 in fiddle yard. C&L track for front and hand built C&L pointwork.
• DCC only
• Operation from front or back or indeed both.
• Not to be built as an exhibition layout but will be adaptable for up to four operators should I decide it is good enough.
• Length limited by garage! - 16ft.
• Provision for an extensive goods yard, engine shed and turntable.

The layout will be 1955-1965 BR/ Southern ie steam and green diesel.

 

The design is very loosly based around an O gauge layout owned by club member John Shaw although much larger in its scope to take longer trains (and not Great Western).

 

Starting from this point I decided I should go ahead and build the boards - a couple of trips to Wickes and I had the timber and trestles to get going.

 

Boards are made of 9mm ply frame with 12mm ply tops. Braced with 5mm ply.

 

 

Four boards now completed and tested on trestles.

 

 

Track laying started with the fiddle yards. The design is that the track enters the front section midway down the layout. This means I have three storage sidings at full length with these feeding a similar length feeder siding. Trains being moved from the storage lines to this siding and then enter the front from this feed. There are also two other slightly shorter sidings that have direct link to the front.

 

All now laid and Tortoise point motors fitted. Wiring is now complete on each board for the fiddle yard and the first train has run:)

 

 

Now down to the making of the pointwork for the roads into the station and once these are down I can fully test the running of all the boards.

 

As a first 4mm attempt I will gladly accept comments/ critisism/ advice from those more experienced than I.

 

Thanks for reading.

[Doolish]

Started on the pointwork. Fortunatly I have a laser cutter so played around with making templates out of 0.8mm ply to match the C&L thin sleepers.

 

 

Camne out quite well and are a great help when setting out the chairs. They also have the advantage that if I cut the webs on one side I can change to a curved point with little effort.

 

 

Not too bad for a first attempt. Mind you sliding chairs onto 4mm rail is really tedious.

 

Three more to make for the station together with a catch point and I can then layout the station track.

 

[Doolish]

Fiddle Yard now all laid. Point motors installed and all seems to be working OK.

 

Checked to ensure all roads comply with my requirement of 5 coaches plus pacific.

 

 

Turned my mind to how to deal with the wiring requirements and decided that from a DCC point of view the layout will be divided into three sections - Fiddle Yard, Stattion and Goods Yard. Each section will be short circuit protected. The wiring for DCC will be simple in that one feed to the boards from the NCE box and then divided into the relevant sections. This will then be delivered to each board by a short 4 wire link.

 

Point motors, power etc will be delivered via RS232 socket - one on each board. There will be feeds of 12V + and -, 9-0-9v for the point motors and 5V + and - for lights etc. There will be a return from each point motor to the control panel so that routes will only been signalled once the point motor has changed.

 

To enable all this I have designed and printed some brackets for each end of the boards.

 

 

Started to lay track and pointwork for the station.

 

 

 

 

[Doolish]

All dismantled at present to try and get to grips with the wiring.

 

All runs OK with croc clips after I found a rail break that wasn't.

 

Thinking a bit forward I don't know what colour ballast was in the late 50's on Southern. Any help appreciated.

[Doolish]

TYrackwork for Main and Bay platforms now laid. Three point installed and working.

 

 

Have started giving consideration to the layout of the goods yard. On plan F now but getting near to what I want.

 

Discussion with club mates about catch points has meant a slight change as rather than have a catch point protecting the station platform track there will now be a short siding with a buffer stop. This will ensure I don't have a limited use of that road due to a 'limit of shunt' notice prior to the catch point. (You learn all the time!)

 

Wiring is now complete on each board and connections via 25 way D sockets are all checked and working. I have installed wires for all the points I think I will need. There is also 12V, 5V and 0-9-0V feed to all boards. 5V is for possible use of Arduino's in the future.

 

One major change from my original plan is the inclusion of a turntable at the far end. Hope to have a finalised diagram to post soon.

 

On to making points now. Done one today just another 9 to go!

 

 

[Doolish]

Plan finished thanks to John Shaw.

 

[Zomboid]

Thinking a bit forward I don't know what colour ballast was in the late 50's on Southern. Any help appreciated.

Whatever comes out of meldon, I imagine.

[Doolish]

Sorry been doing other things and not a lot of Eastbrook.

 

All track is now laid on boards 1&2 and the track has been sprayed a dark wood colour to ensure the plastic and wooden spleepers all look the same. Rail then rusted - what a boring job!

 

Have balasted part of the goods yard by using diluted PVA and am not particularly happy with the result. However have realised that my so called detailed  planning has not worked very well as I now realise that the platform edges must be assembled before I ballast that track and more importantly the point rodding must be put in place also before ballasting.

 

Therefore I during the week I have assembled the Peco Southern platform faces and sprayed them to get rid of the gloss. Today I fitted them to the boards having made a small guage to ensure equal spacing to the rail. The supports to strengthen the fronts and provide a base for the platforms have also been laid.

 

 

I am not a great believer in the product hype made by model rail suppliers but decided to try Ballast Magic as an alternative to PVA for the bay platform. Very unsure how it would go but basically it works and provides a nice finish. It is all in the preperation and the time is taken up brushing all the ballast off the sleapers before the spray. A bit time consuming but am very pleased with the results.

 

 

Need to move onto the main platform now and this cannot be ballasted before the point rodding is in place. Using the Wills rodding and after a great deal of help from my club now know how it should be laid. A facing point lock is required on the end crossover and I have made up the cranks for this and started to assemble the rodding itself. This is going to be a long testing job but think it will be worth it.

 

 

Have now also purchased a Peco Turntable and am playing around with Stepper Motors and Arduino to get it working - a bit out of my depth but getting there.

 

Also long debate at the club on Wednesday about the thrid rail. I have alreasdy bought some Peco third rail but it looks wrong and whilst the profile is almost right it is far to thin. Hopefully some of my club members are going to the Scalefour show today and will get me some of their correct profile rail.

 

 

 

[eldavo]

Great progress Roger. More DCC equipped BR-S stock. That'll come in handy. :-)

 

Cheers

Dave

[Doolish]

Well after a long time of not doing much due to the cold it was warm enough today to venture into the garage andstart doing the third rail on the first two boards.

 

I made up some jigs to help with spacing and rail height.

 

 

The rail is scale 4 as the peco one just doesn't look right. The process is to use a jig to drill 5mm holes every 5 sleepers. The pins I use are 'sequin' pins that are shorter than normal ones. I tried using Peco insulators on the first rail I laid and it isn't worth it especially as they will be behind boards in the station area. Insert pin part way and put a blob of solder on each pin head. After cutting and bending rail put flux on pin heads and then solder flat bottom of rail to the pins - easier said than done. Once all sioldered up press pins down and use jig to get exact height.

 

 

Looks OK and am quite pleased. Checked running with a 2HAL and clearance to rail is fine. Will look better when painted.

 

 

However like all things it has highligted a problem. I have not run this set into station since adding the point rodding - yes the pickup bar touches the point rodding!!!!

 

Will have to reseat the rodding nearer the platform edge.

 

Two seps forward and one back - still its good to be making progress.

[Doolish]

3rd Rail progressing but thought I would design the station canopy.

 

Did the drawings and cut it all out to find nothing fitted! Start again - this time everything seemed ok with a few minor errors that are now sorted.

 

 

Have to work out attachments to building but looks OK. Have to do the two canopies either side now and then will work out how to fix them. Canopy will be higher than the mockup.

 

[Earl Bathurst]

Looks great so far. Having moved to 0 gauge selling all 00 to fund the move, now realising I cant fit a layout at home so have bought some 00 again for the reasons similar to yours. Look forward to seeing this layout develop. I like the gauges you have made, really useful.

 

Scott

[Doolish]

Week spent making 6 turnouts - used to enjoy doing these but becoming a chore - anyway all done now (I think) sixth one is for the fourth board.

 

Had to change the layout of the sidings slightly to esure smooth curves etc. Also changed it to avoid another turnout over a baseboard join.

 

Cork underlay now layed on third board and turnouts checked to ensure they will line up properly

 

.

 

Tomorrow will drill holes for Tortoise motors etc and get some plain track laid. Hope to have this board all laid this week - then the wiring

 

Have done most of the third rail but have hit what I think is a potentail error against prototype.

 

 

This shows the catch point protecting the main line but if it was to 'catch' a loco or wagon it would put it straight into the third rail! Don't think this is what would happen but cannot see a way round it.

 

[eldavo]

Making some good progress Roger. I suspect your problem with the third rail and catch point is because the latter is too close to the line it is protecting. Might be one of those compromises we have to live with in our compressed world.

 

Cheers

Dave

[Doolish]

A lot done over the weekend. Five turnouts installed and the trackwork for the sidings on boards 2 and 3.

 

 

Starting to look like a layout now

 

There are a couple of issues where rails are slightly out that need to be fixed. Rails over the baseboard joints cut and then I can install the Tortoise motors.

 

Track needs to be sprayed and then attach the dropper wires. That should keep me going all week!

 

[Doolish]

Had to relay one piece of track and I realised there was not enough room for the Goods Shed.

 

All Tortoise motors installed and turnouts working OK.

 

All wiring done and checked - correct first time must be getting better

 

Enough for today. Track need to be sprayed and will do this tomorrow then may connect it all up and run some trains.

[Doolish]

Things have moved on apace.Decided to lay track to final board so that I can say that something is finished.

 

Couple of minor changes to track plan but all is now in its final state.

 

All wiring to be done on this board and check and recheck all the wiring to boards One and Two. Having taken these up I notice a couple of silly errors so will do a detailed check.

 

John Shaw has come up with a final plan including all the signals/ locking levers etc. Basically I recently was able to purchase a lever frame from someones estate and it has 32 levers - so Johns plan has 31 levers!!!!

 

 

Signals 22-25 will not be seen as they are the other side of the tunnel to the fiddle yard. However I would like to have working ground signals - anyone know if someone produces them in 4mm?

 

Fiddleyard is not setup properly in this plan as I will use levers 27 to 32 to set routes rather than points.

 

Two short roads to lay into the Shed and then track will be finished - photo when finished.

[Doolish]

Board 4 laid now.

 

Need to finalise Turntable and do wiring next.

 

[Mike Storey]

 

 

. However I would like to have working ground signals - anyone know if someone produces them in 4mm?

 

.

 

Have a butchers at these?

 

The first is really LMS but looks easier to do than the more correct MSE SR version - some people have made these work. There is a thread on working ground signals on here somewhere.

 

http://www.scaledesign.co.uk/lms-standard-ground-signal-with-working-lamp---oo-gauge-106-p.asp

 

http://www.modelsignals.com/4mm_detail/gs002/page.htm

 

Hope that helps! Great looking layout by the way.

[Doolish]

Have a butchers at these?

 

The first is really LMS but looks easier to do than the more correct MSE SR version - some people have made these work. There is a thread on working ground signals on here somewhere.

 

http://www.scaledesign.co.uk/lms-standard-ground-signal-with-working-lamp---oo-gauge-106-p.asp

 

http://www.modelsignals.com/4mm_detail/gs002/page.htm

 

Hope that helps! Great looking layout by the way.

Thanks for that - will give the MSE ones a try

[PhilH]

Just stumbled across this thread. Looks like it's going to be a cracker!

[Doolish]

Have not done much recently as I fell over on Saturday and can hardly walk!!

 

However have managed to put the lever frame together and mount the micro switches etc.#

 

 

Whilst the locking bars are in place I do not intend to do these until the whole layout has been wired and checked.

[Doolish]

Been very busy but doesn't all show!

 

DCC protections now wired up and working. I have one PSX covering the whole layout and then seperate MERG units for the three main sections. Power comes into this board and then sent to the relevant other boards. There is ability within these boards to give me warning LEDs on the control panel.

 

 

The Turntable is now installed and the connecting roads laid. The whole of the board now has its droppers installed. All track crossing board joints have been strengthened with copper clad sleepers.

 

 

Next will be to spray all the track then deal with the wiring under the board. Also install the last Tortoise motor.

 

I have made up some numbers for my lever frame and these are fitted. Frame has been checked that the microswitches all work and correctly wired.

 

 

Just started to make up a RS232 diagnostic cable. This can be inserted between any of the sockets so thast voltages etc can be checked whilst layout working. A lot of work that I hope will never be used!

 

 

All this with a very bad back - can only do 30 mins or so each session but getting there.

 

[Doolish]

My last post indicxated that the wiring for the main board was finished and checked - that turned out to be no quite true. I had tested the board from the top (rails) and was happy that the three seperate sections were independant and that the Merg DCO were cutting out on a short. However I did notice that when shorting out the Fiddle Yard section the 'squeal' from the DCO's was louder. Just to check all was well I decided to check from beneath the board and low and behold a major problem, For reasons I still do not fully understand my idea of having one PSX board covering the entire layout and then three Merg units to cover each section is not a valid method! The problem was that when the FY was shorted all three Merg DCO's were being triggered - hence the louder noise. To the non electrically minded I assumed that somewhere was a short between sections so spent most iof yesterday checking and double checking each of the circuits with no success.

 

After a responce from the Merg Forum I today disconected the PSX and put the feed direct to each of the DCO's and all is now working as planned - waste of a day but I learned something! The reason being that the PSX was also cutting out and this in turn was causing the other DCO's to trigger.

 

Have now installed the Tortoise and finished wiring board 4 and sprayed the track.

[Doolish]

Seem to have been doing a lot of work with little to show for it!

 

Got out my woodwork skills and made a stand for my electronics and lever frame. It splits into three for transport with all my transformers and DCC unit all in the base. There are two cable outputs from this - one for the dcc direct to board 2 and then a seven wire cable sending +12v & 0V, + 5v & 0V and 9v supply for the points giving + & - 9V with a centre 0V. I have put in a fan to aid air circulation but at present it just makes a lot of noise - have to work out how to slow it down.

 

Frame is a snug fit in the top. Have to cut a black frame to go round the levers and then the route board.

 

]

 

Have changed the way I had the boards located onto my stands as the system I invented was OK but didn't allow for putting up boards the wrong way round for easy access to the trackwork on the other side. New system allows for boards to sit ontop of the tressles.

 

Have spent quite a long time (too much time) getting my head around how I will set the FiddleYard routes via an Arduino. The levers to relays bit was moderatly easy but I have had all sorts of problems dealing with the Red/Green LEDs. Firstly there are not enough outputs on an Arduino Nano and have had to get my head around a 'port expander'. Anyway eventually got there and now happy that the system will work.

 

Tidied up some of the wiring under the boards and hope within a week to have them all in place and maybe run some trains