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Wagon variety at Kingswear, June 1932


Fat Controller

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I recently picked up a copy of 'Great Western Docks and Marine' by Tony Atkins, published by Noodle Books. A very interesting volume, covering not only the obvious Brentford and South Wales docks, but operations in Liverpool and Manchester.

One photo struck me; that of Kingswear quayside (page 79) on a June day in 1932. The photo was probably taken to show off the new electric cranes, but what struck me was how busy it was, and the number and variety of vehicles visible. I counted a total of 32 wagons; 6 vans and 32 opens.

The vans include 3 GWR ones, an LNER one and an LMS one- the sixth is fairly definitely GWR, but the lettering is not clear.

The wagons are a much more mixed bunch:-

GWR  - 3

LMS   - 11

LNER - 5

SR      - 3

Unidentified 4, two of which are sheeted, one with a tarpaulin rail, so possibly GWR.

There is not a single PO wagon visible.

Almost all are 5-plank opens, though the SR ones appear to be fairly new 8-plank High Goods/Coal wagons

The LMS examples include two wagons still lettered for LNWR. They also include several vehicles of a design I've not seen before, with no diagonal bracing on the sides, but a vertical bracing half-way along the sides, either side of the doors. Does anyone know what these might be?

The majority of the wagons are empty, barring those on the road adjacent to the quay, which are being loaded with fine coal from an adjacent coaster. The name of the coaster is not visible, but it has a dark funnel, with a white band bearing the letter 'W'

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The LMS examples include two wagons still lettered for LNWR. They also include several vehicles of a design I've not seen before, with no diagonal bracing on the sides, but a vertical bracing half-way along the sides, either side of the doors. Does anyone know what these might be?

Are these mystery wagons opens? I know the Midland had opens with vertical strapping.  I also know some pregrouping vans had vertical strapping, though cant remember any examples. 

 

Any chance you could reproduce the photo, or just a close up of it?

I dont see copyright being infringed as you are not claiming ownership of the photo or photographed objects.  

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Reading the many books on this line, most coal seems to come from S. Wales and destined for the gas works in Paignton. Possibly some was for home consumption as well although this might need to be a different grade. Latterly there was a diesel shunter 'shedded' at the gas works to move the wagons along but no mention of what was used before its arrival; presumably the train engine or capstans. Hard to believe all this went on, nowadays.

 

Brian.

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One photo struck me; that of Kingswear quayside (page 79) on a June day in 1932. The photo was probably taken to show off the new electric cranes, but what struck me was how busy it was, and the number and variety of vehicles visible. I counted a total of 32 wagons; 6 vans and 32 opens.

There is not a single PO wagon visible.

 Unless coal was exported through a quayside you wouldn't expect to see PO coal wagons anywhere near it.  Export coal generally went from the pit to the nearest port.  Wagons in any location are only there to do the business associated with that place and Kingswear was not a coal export port.

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Try this.

 

1928

 

http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw024180?search=kingswear&ref=1

 

If you haven't been on the Britain from Above site before, register (its free), which will allow you to zoom in.

 

I refuse to reimburse you for the number of hours which WILL be lost.

 

Regards

 

Ian

There are some PO wagons in that photo, all apparently different owners, but I couldn't read the wording. Maybe someone who wants to lose lots of hours can have a go!

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The LMS examples include two wagons still lettered for LNWR. They also include several vehicles of a design I've not seen before, with no diagonal bracing on the sides, but a vertical bracing half-way along the sides, either side of the doors. Does anyone know what these might be?

 

As mentioned, probably Midland Rly, as this conserved example http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsmineral/e737a8196

 

Paul

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  • RMweb Gold

I think we sometimes underestimate how much was moved by coastal shipping before WW2 and even after that date. I was similarly struck at the wide range of cargoes coming and going through the Somerset & Dorset's Highbridge Wharf. There were major flows like timber from Scandinavia, and coal and steel, including rails for the S&D and the South west division of the Southern, from South Wales. Outgoing cargoes included bricks and tiles from brickworks around the wharf. Dairy products from Somerset farms headed back over to South Wales, including some Caerphilly cheese! These were just the major categories; there were many others including flour, livestock and materials for the solid fuel plant on the edge of the wharf.

All this I get from the 'Maritime Activities of the Somerset & Dorset Railway', by Chris Handley. As with the Kingwear photos there are few if any PO wagons in its many illustrations, but large numbers of railway owned ones from all over the country, including all of the big four and pregrouping companies like the North Staffordshire and LBSCR. There was a siding to a COOP coal depot, which may have had its PO wagons, but it doesn't appear in the photos.The privately-owned flour and cattle cake merchants at the northern end of the wharf had a siding but, again, there is no evidence of PO wagons. Huge amounts of timber were transported away from John Bland's timber yard - but all in railway wagons, as far as I can see.

I lived within half a mile of the wharf in the sixties, when it finally closed to shipping. It is amazing it lasted that long, as it was up a tidal creek, off the river Brue, itself a comparatively small river running into the Bristol Channel at Burnham-on-Sea.

Sorry if this is a little off the Devon theme - but the similarities are worth noting and must have been replicated in small ports all around our coasts.

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  • 2 months later...

Re. the queries about the gas works at Hollacombe (Hollicombe or even Hollowcombe depending on your map), today I happened upon a copy of Peter Gray's book 'Steam on West Country Branchlines'.  On page 47 there is a photo by Les Folkard showing a train passing the gasworks with SWGB Ruston and Hornsby four wheel d.m. 402809 on the sidings.  Peter states that this loco had replaced Peckett 0-4-0ST no. 2031 in March 1957.    

 

I understand that there indeed a capstan system as back up to move the loaded wagons in turn to the offloading point from where a telpher system was used to move the coal to the retort houses.

 

The Peckett was taken to Exeter gas works where it resided until being sold for its scrap value to the DVRA by the very helpful works manager, John Pascoe.  Happily it survives at Buckfastleigh as 'Ashley'    

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