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BBC All aboard! The country bus: the Northern Dalesman


sjp23480

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Available now on BBC iplayer, almost 2 hours of footage proving scenic inspiration for anyone modelling this part of the world. Brilliant!

 

Btw Ribblehead makes a brief appearance on the 114th minute, but it really is worth watching the whole programme especially in HD.

 

Steve

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Available now on BBC iplayer, almost 2 hours of footage proving scenic inspiration for anyone modelling this part of the world. Brilliant!

 

Btw Ribblehead makes a brief appearance on the 114th minute, but it really is worth watching the whole programme especially in HD.

 

Steve

 

Steve, thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention. Something decent to watch - looking forward to it!!

 

Btw, you were the first to post a reply in my previous KL thread back in 2012. If I remember correctly, you were planning a garage conversion. Did you get your layout past the planning stage?

 

Jeff

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Hi Jeff,

Trust you to ask!

 

Yes, it has got past the planning stage, just. Garage was converted leaving me with 31x9' space.

 

Plan is to build a layout on two levels, bottom level with plenty of storage, approximately 300'. The top level will be two dioramas portraying Dent on one side and Garsdale and a scaled down Dandry Mire viaduct.

 

Baseboards are build, supplied by the Model Shop in Woodchurch. Track work is a mix of Peco code75 and Roco code 83 (primarily for their double/single slips). Gradients are the Woodland Scenics products, which have been a God send as my carpentry is horrible. Control will be conventional DC, eventually.

 

Progress has been painfully slow, I spend around 14 hours a day at work and weekends are filled with chores and family commitments.

 

I must confess to have stalled as I have been having some doubts about the practicalities of the plan, so comments would be welcome.

 

Steve

 

A view of the length of the garage, Dent will be on the right, Garsdale on the right

 

post-660-0-82390600-1472891881_thumb.jpeg

 

One of the storage yards, there will be one either side the turntable in the middle is to release locos

 

post-660-0-76180400-1472891931_thumb.jpeg

 

The same view on the other side, Dent on the left, Garsdale on the right.

post-660-0-01182700-1472891950_thumb.jpeg

 

The other storage yard. In the distance you can see two gradients, one is the Hawes branch to the storage yard, the other is the feed line to the main storage yard. Dandry Mire will straddle the low level board in this view.

post-660-0-60096600-1472891967_thumb.jpeg

 

There are two rather complicated junctions to feed the storage yards, the top view will be a concealed on the mainline and bridges the access door involving the use of a Roco outside double slip. The second shows the pointwork needed to have the two feed lines cross each other and flare to 7/8 storage roads

 

post-660-0-20608700-1472891982_thumb.jpeg

post-660-0-48588600-1472891994_thumb.jpeg

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Hi Steve.

 

Yes, trust me to ask the "leading question"!!

 

If you need encouragement, look at all the work that's been done and remember that NONE of this existed 4 years ago. It's a long-term project, so who cares if it takes another 5 years? It's meant to be fun....

 

Do you have a layout thread? If not, how about setting one up and putting it into the S&C section? You'll get a lot of input from the Lunesters and I'll be keen to see how you are progressing.

 

Jeff

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Radio Times article on the making of the program, not without its difficulties http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2016-08-29/how-to-make-slow-tv- on-a-38-mile-bus-trip-across-the-yorkshire-dales Presumably the wind  was the cause of the late running with the bus having to travel slower than normal to ensure the camera stayed on the roof - in the 2 hours it should have reached Ingleton rather than Ribblehead and I have read that Hawes to Ribblehead was chopped to ensure the latter was shown in the 2 hours. Have also read than a train one is planned for Christmas.

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Hi Jeff,

Trust you to ask!

 

Yes, it has got past the planning stage, just. Garage was converted leaving me with 31x9' space.

 

Plan is to build a layout on two levels, bottom level with plenty of storage, approximately 300'. The top level will be two dioramas portraying Dent on one side and Garsdale and a scaled down Dandry Mire viaduct.

 

Baseboards are build, supplied by the Model Shop in Woodchurch. Track work is a mix of Peco code75 and Roco code 83 (primarily for their double/single slips). Gradients are the Woodland Scenics products, which have been a God send as my carpentry is horrible. Control will be conventional DC, eventually.

 

Progress has been painfully slow, I spend around 14 hours a day at work and weekends are filled with chores and family commitments.

 

I must confess to have stalled as I have been having some doubts about the practicalities of the plan, so comments would be welcome.

 

Steve

 

A view of the length of the garage, Dent will be on the right, Garsdale on the right

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

 

One of the storage yards, there will be one either side the turntable in the middle is to release locos

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

 

The same view on the other side, Dent on the left, Garsdale on the right.

attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

 

The other storage yard. In the distance you can see two gradients, one is the Hawes branch to the storage yard, the other is the feed line to the main storage yard. Dandry Mire will straddle the low level board in this view.

attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

 

There are two rather complicated junctions to feed the storage yards, the top view will be a concealed on the mainline and bridges the access door involving the use of a Roco outside double slip. The second shows the pointwork needed to have the two feed lines cross each other and flare to 7/8 storage roads

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

 

I'm not sure this is going to work, in the same way that Mike's original Dent didn't work because the spirals were too tight (the woodland scenic's grades are going to be a bit stiff for heavy trains...).  The other issue I see, as someone with multi levels, is that you have not got enough space to do much useful between the levels.  If it was me, in a 30x9' space, I'd be tempted to go for at least a full loop around the outside which would give you about 1:80 grades with a grade crossing at the middle on one side, unless I am mis-reading how you intend to feed in and out trains.  I'd also go for at least 2 loops around the entire room...it means the spirals end up with a huge amount of track on them, but it also means the trains are "going" somewhere on each lap.

 

Again, a lot of this comes down to "innovative" design of the layout- like, for me, if I was going to put a layout in 1/2 of a garage, I would always intend on hanging a box inside the other 1/2, to run 2 tracks down at least at one level "outside" the space.  The extra 4" of width that is not in the railway room would be a good use of the space, IMO.  (& if possible, stage a lot more than just 1 box, 12" shelving would be even better...).  To give an idea, my layout (Long Marton) is mostly built inside a 12' wide room (it's 24x12, with a 12x5' bit...that bit includes the wood stove & furnace in the same room).  There was lots of tunneling through walls to get LM setup the way it is,  but the actual layout is "only" 30x3', with the rest being fairly poorly used.  If I had been more space crunched, I would have done some things differently- the staging would have been on the wall in the railway room, with a fan of double ended sidings.  As it is, LM has always played 2nd fiddle to the Lego in terms of volume of space that has been allocated.  That's because the lego trains are effectively O gauge, and have a lot more volume.  (although, there is not that much Lego in the room with LM, there is a shelf above the staging that is slowly being taken over, but that is all)

 

Again, don't think I am telling you what you have done can't work, I'm just trying to offer up ideas before you end up fixed to one set !  (same as Jeff- feel free to tell us to go monkey with our own layout...)

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I sometimes drive one of the Dalesbus services which connects with the one in the film. I do the 881 which runs from Ingleton, through Settle and onto Malham. The section from Settle to Malham is especially scenic and great fun to drive; it goes via Langcliffe and Malham Tarn, so 7 miles of narrow single track roads (beware the stone walls), hairpin bends and 1 in 5 gradients. Plus Sunday drivers and badly parked cars.

 

The Dalesbus network shows how public transport should be. Timetables are co-ordinated, the services connect with each other (and they do),plus there are day tickets at sensible prices.

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I was up at Ribblehead the other day on my way to W&L gala and was behind the bus which was zipping along.. I haven't been up that neck of the woods for donkeys and had forgotten how beautiful it is. I vowed to get out and see more of my bit of Yorkshire after seeing this and All Aboard. Even saw a Sprinter crossing viaduct.

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Radio Times article on the making of the program, not without its difficulties http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2016-08-29/how-to-make-slow-tv- on-a-38-mile-bus-trip-across-the-yorkshire-dales Presumably the wind  was the cause of the late running with the bus having to travel slower than normal to ensure the camera stayed on the roof - in the 2 hours it should have reached Ingleton rather than Ribblehead and I have read that Hawes to Ribblehead was chopped to ensure the latter was shown in the 2 hours. Have also read than a train one is planned for Christmas.

If you watch carefully there is no sign of wind outside the bus; can't verify if any of the passengers or the driver was suffering though.

P

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I sometimes drive one of the Dalesbus services which connects with the one in the film. I do the 881 which runs from Ingleton, through Settle and onto Malham. The section from Settle to Malham is especially scenic and great fun to drive; it goes via Langcliffe and Malham Tarn, so 7 miles of narrow single track roads (beware the stone walls), hairpin bends and 1 in 5 gradients. Plus Sunday drivers and badly parked cars.

 

The Dalesbus network shows how public transport should be. Timetables are co-ordinated, the services connect with each other (and they do),plus there are day tickets at sensible prices.

....and if your drivers (of course it is understood that you are) are all as professional as this chap then it will be a pleasure to travel these routes (what's it like in winter though.......?)

Phil

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Just watching the second hour. Good heavens isn't this a most beautiful part of the world. I am in admiration of the drivers skills. I'm also amazed that there is so little traffic. It would not be fun to meet a 'lost large truck' coming the other way. 

Just seen the bit over the top of the moor........I never knew what Buttertubs meant before.

I am seriously tempted to do this trip but I'd need a toilet stop...........(sorry).

Am I weird as I so love this trip?

In the first hour I saw a house we stayed at once in Grinton; right on the corner opposite the pub.

Phil

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Just watching the second hour. Good heavens isn't this a most beautiful part of the world. I am in admiration of the drivers skills. I'm also amazed that there is so little traffic. It would not be fun to meet a 'lost large truck' coming the other way. 

Just seen the bit over the top of the moor........I never knew what Buttertubs meant before.

I am seriously tempted to do this trip but I'd need a toilet stop...........(sorry).

Am I weird as I so love this trip?

In the first hour I saw a house we stayed at once in Grinton; right on the corner opposite the pub.

Phil

Phil,

 

It's 25 years since I have been in the area, but I love it. I was amazed at how many cars, minibuses and the like were parked around Ribblehead. Wasn't like that in my day!

 

Steve

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There is a whole network of Sunday/Bank Holiday services in addition to weekday/Saturday ones http://www.dalesbus.org/

One thing the program misled on was concession holders just waving their pass and getting a ticket - due to NYCC and Lancs CC cut backs the Sunday/Bank Hol services are chargeable for concession holders for journeys starting in North Yorkshire or Lancashire and a maximum fare of £4 single, £6 return or £6 Day Rover applies.

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I'm not sure this is going to work, in the same way that Mike's original Dent didn't work because the spirals were too tight (the woodland scenic's grades are going to be a bit stiff for heavy trains...).  The other issue I see, as someone with multi levels, is that you have not got enough space to do much useful between the levels.  If it was me, in a 30x9' space, I'd be tempted to go for at least a full loop around the outside which would give you about 1:80 grades with a grade crossing at the middle on one side, unless I am mis-reading how you intend to feed in and out trains.  I'd also go for at least 2 loops around the entire room...it means the spirals end up with a huge amount of track on them, but it also means the trains are "going" somewhere on each lap.

 

Again, a lot of this comes down to "innovative" design of the layout- like, for me, if I was going to put a layout in 1/2 of a garage, I would always intend on hanging a box inside the other 1/2, to run 2 tracks down at least at one level "outside" the space.  The extra 4" of width that is not in the railway room would be a good use of the space, IMO.  (& if possible, stage a lot more than just 1 box, 12" shelving would be even better...).  To give an idea, my layout (Long Marton) is mostly built inside a 12' wide room (it's 24x12, with a 12x5' bit...that bit includes the wood stove & furnace in the same room).  There was lots of tunneling through walls to get LM setup the way it is,  but the actual layout is "only" 30x3', with the rest being fairly poorly used.  If I had been more space crunched, I would have done some things differently- the staging would have been on the wall in the railway room, with a fan of double ended sidings.  As it is, LM has always played 2nd fiddle to the Lego in terms of volume of space that has been allocated.  That's because the lego trains are effectively O gauge, and have a lot more volume.  (although, there is not that much Lego in the room with LM, there is a shelf above the staging that is slowly being taken over, but that is all)

 

Again, don't think I am telling you what you have done can't work, I'm just trying to offer up ideas before you end up fixed to one set !  (same as Jeff- feel free to tell us to go monkey with our own layout...)

Hey James

Thank you for such a detailed insight, I must confess that I am not sure I fully understand what you have done. I took a look at your LM thread, but still struggled to "see" it. Sorry. :-(

 

I hear you on the double track loop around the outside (behind/under the scenic sections). My original plans had this but I struggled to get the scenic sections level given they are the stations and to then get the lines on the level to feed the storage line.

 

To explain a bit more on the plan, the double junction in the "bridge" feeds and receives both the up and the down lines and yards, the limitation is that the lines are single tracks, although I plan to provide a lay by on each to allow trains to pass in/out. They also have to cross one another at the other end iof the layout before entering the yards.

 

I am concerned that, at 1:50 the gradients might be a problem with heavy trains. The storage yards are intended to accommodate 10' trains, so 9/10 coaches. I definitely need to test this before I go any further, or I will need to double head everything!

 

The gradient gets the high level around 10" above the lower level, so you are right there will not be a lot of clearance to portray the way the land falls away from the railway where it is cut into the hillside. I have convinced myself that this will not be the end of the world given the scenic boards will be no more than 3' wide.

 

Thanks for the guidance, I will certainly have another think about things and try to keep up the posts as I make painfully slow progress!

 

Steve

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Steve,

 

Start a thread for your layout.

 

This discussion is fascinating and I'm sure it would be helpful having a thread as focussed input would be possible.

 

KL2 has no gradients - within build tolerances. I made the mistake of having 1 in 40 two layouts ago. It was a disaster.

 

Perhaps Mike (Dent) might offer some comments on his revised helix arrangement?

 

Jeff

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One thing the program misled on was concession holders just waving their pass and getting a ticket - due to NYCC and Lancs CC cut backs the Sunday/Bank Hol services are chargeable for concession holders for journeys starting in North Yorkshire or Lancashire and a maximum fare of £4 single, £6 return or £6 Day Rover applies.

They can only charge if the bus is considered solely for tourism. Which I assume is what a summer Sunday service is classed as.

The passengers boarding in Richmond were originally trying to swipe their passes but the driver said something like "We will do it this way today" and held his hand over the sensor.

 

The bus also didn't go into Hawes station as it should for a 5 minute stop.

 

BTW IMHO we saw too much of the driver. It was OK looking through the front screen but the long sideways views were a waste away from the stops.

 

It was great following the bus route as I have driven those roads many times.

 

Keith

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They can only charge if the bus is considered solely for tourism. Which I assume is what a summer Sunday service is classed as.

The passengers boarding in Richmond were originally trying to swipe their passes but the driver said something like "We will do it this way today" and held his hand over the sensor.

 

The bus also didn't go into Hawes station as it should for a 5 minute stop.

 

BTW IMHO we saw too much of the driver. It was OK looking through the front screen but the long sideways views were a waste away from the stops.

 

It was great following the bus route as I have driven those roads many times.

 

Keith

Ah so Hawes is the 'comfort break' stop then?

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They can only charge if the bus is considered solely for tourism. Which I assume is what a summer Sunday service is classed as.

The passengers boarding in Richmond were originally trying to swipe their passes but the driver said something like "We will do it this way today" and held his hand over the sensor.

 

The bus also didn't go into Hawes station as it should for a 5 minute stop.

 

BTW IMHO we saw too much of the driver. It was OK looking through the front screen but the long sideways views were a waste away from the stops.

 

It was great following the bus route as I have driven those roads many times.

 

Keith

Sorry Keith but I actually enjoyed the sideways views most of the time as I don't get much of that when driving.

I had not realised it was a Sunday service.

I'd pay for that trip. I suppose one could do a circuit by catching a train from Ribblehead and then finding a way back from (say) Settle to Richmond. 

Phil

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Sorry Keith but I actually enjoyed the sideways views most of the time as I don't get much of that when driving.

Phil

Timetable:

http://www.dalesbus.org/832.html

(We should have passed the return journey near Buttertubs!)

 

I assume this was a one off before the start of the 2016 season in May.

 

Looking at the driver's earhole/shades for long periods I found tedious.

However the sideways views from the camera(s) atop the bus were great.

 

Keith

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Timetable:

http://www.dalesbus.org/832.html

(We should have passed the return journey near Buttertubs!)

 

I assume this was a one off before the start of the 2016 season in May.

 

Looking at the driver's earhole/shades for long periods I found tedious.

However the sideways views from the camera(s) atop the bus were great.

 

Keith

So was this the Buttertubs that some rather fit blokes cycled up/past last year, en route to France?I wondered why the new fencing on the left side as 'we' travelled up there was so posh. There was a drone sequence just before Buttertubs I seem to remember; I liked that and it obviously wasn't windy at the time.

I was also intrigued to see, in the far distance at times in the pre Hawes part of the run, what looked like Power Station plumes. That could have been Eggborough and Ferrybridge?

By the look of the foliage and the weather it may have been a bit later than May. It looked like a service bus and not a 'special' with 'stooge'passengers but you could be right that it was at the start of the 'season'. 

Phil

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