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New West Midlands Franchise - Standing Room Only?


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Lucky commuters: Asian metros generally specify 6 people per square metre fully laden and 8 people per square metre crush!

 

Edit: Just checked some specifications: typically normal loading is 5 per square metre, peak loading is 6 per square metre, and crush is 8 per square metre. These are for journeys that typically will be 15-20 minutes.

Edited by david.hill64
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That's exactly the sort of thing "improvement" means these days. It's more efficient.

 

'Efficient' as in saving money by avoiding providing sufficient rolling stock for normal passenger loading levels.  20 minutes can be an awfully long time to stand if you happen to have arthritis or be old or infirm.  Far better to reduce the salaries of the idiots who come up with this nonsense and put the money towards leasing more rolling stock (yes, I know but the principle sounds better).

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Trust me - Lichfield or Redditch to New Street is not a short journey.

Perhaps give the winners of the franchise the ability to, I dont know, buy new trains or carriages without getting government approval (a.k.a ask us now and we will convene a hearing to talk about the possbility of a feasabiltiy study into us thinking about the chances of meeting the eight criteria points for a prelimary discussion)? the train providers want to spend money on this stuff (it is after all, them who get blamed for it all of the time) but the franchise system is absolutely the worst of both worlds between private enterprise and nationalisation.

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Not sure this is an efficiency exercise, more a case of massaging the figures. Lets be honest the question at peak times isn't always available number of carriages but network capacity...... not enough train services.

 

So what does a progressive forward thinking government do to assure the voracious public that progress is being made? Assure said public that the current numbers of commuters are being served with enough passenger carrying capacity. The reality is that Mr and Mrs Joe Public are shoe horned in anyway lets just make the shoe horning work for us.

 

I find it interesting that with a government recognition of current obesity levels and the genuinely accepted fact that people today grow on average to a large physical size than fifty years ago. Rather like car parking spaces, they use dimensions that no longer portray the average.

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The standee equation has been repeatedly challenged with DfT because its advisors' guidance is widely regarded by bidders' rolling stock experts as Tommyrot.

 

:O

Edited by 'CHARD
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Trust me - Lichfield or Redditch to New Street is not a short journey.

Perhaps give the winners of the franchise the ability to, I dont know, buy new trains or carriages without getting government approval (a.k.a ask us now and we will convene a hearing to talk about the possbility of a feasabiltiy study into us thinking about the chances of meeting the eight criteria points for a prelimary discussion)? the train providers want to spend money on this stuff (it is after all, them who get blamed for it all of the time) but the franchise system is absolutely the worst of both worlds between private enterprise and nationalisation.

 

You wanna try driving it your right it's certainly not a short journey I bloody hate the route especially now after my fatality 2 weeks ago at Blake street I absolutely detest the route towards Lichfield.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

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If the trains are so lacking in seats that it's standing room only from Lichfield then there really is a problem.

I'm not a user of that route (been that way once off peak and pretty much had a carriage to myself from Lichfield to New St), but I'd expect the seats to run out inwards of Sutton Coldfield. Which is a different prospect entirely.

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In gaining the dozen or so 323's, LM will be getting more trains and extra carriages to cope with demand, so I don't see how anyone is getting short changed. Northern are getting a large fleet of new trains, and those plus the 319's they wont need the 323's so moving them to LM makes perfect sense.

 

As a regular cross city user I can't wait for the extra units to arrive, even 6 car trains can be full and standing in the peaks, let alone the 3 car ones. LM also need extra sets for when the cross city starts running through to to Bromsgrove.

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In gaining the dozen or so 323's, LM will be getting more trains and extra carriages to cope with demand, so I don't see how anyone is getting short changed. Northern are getting a large fleet of new trains, and those plus the 319's they wont need the 323's so moving them to LM makes perfect sense.

 

As a regular cross city user I can't wait for the extra units to arrive, even 6 car trains can be full and standing in the peaks, let alone the 3 car ones. LM also need extra sets for when the cross city starts running through to to Bromsgrove.

 

I'm so looking forward to driving them up and down the Lickey incline during leaf fall (slippy slidey) season NOT!!

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Colin

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Although the media have decided to pick up on seats/space, it looks like DOO might be coming to LM too, hope things don't end up like Southern. From the ITT below - 

 

f) Initiatives to improve train service operations in ways that will generate long-term passenger benefits or operational improvements that will continue to accrue after the end of the Franchise Term. This can include the implementation of Driver Controlled Operation. Where DCO is proposed, the Department would require the Franchisee to undertake appropriate consultation (with passengers and the workforce) including about supporting the continual development and expansion of the professional skills of on-train staff, in particular in relation to on-board customer service to which passengers attach most value

 

5.6.9 The Department requires a Franchisee who will ensure that for any newbuild rolling stock: a) The fleet is fitted with the equipment necessary to enable the trains to be operated under Driver Controlled Operation (DCO) in passenger service without any additional station facilities other than lighting being required

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London and the south get more trains and extra carriages to cope with demand, the rest of the Country gets short changed yet again.

I know it doesn't fit with your agenda, but there are presently orders for lots of new trains for TPE, Northern and Scotrail, none of which get anywhere near London and the South East.

London Midland has had loads of brand new 350s in the last 10 years. And seemingly will benefit from longer trains once the Northern order of delivered.

What do you want, new trains every 5 years? These things aren't primark jumpers that you use once and throw away rather than wash.

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I'm so looking forward to driving them up and down the Lickey incline during leaf fall (slippy slidey) season NOT!!

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Colin

 

I don't blame you! At least (hopefully) most of the trains will be running 6 cars making it a bit more likely you'll stop before the platform runs out!

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Based on my experiences on LM I think that driver release of the doors when arriving at a station would be a positive improvement as it is not uncommon for there to be a delay as the conductor fights there way to the doors.

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Leeds Northwest - 4 car 333 sets, no room at most platforms for more, 3+2 seating in all vehicles and high density doors. Mostly empty during the day, full and standing but still with empty seats in the peak.

 

Why ? Because first of all people don't like squeezing past into the middle seats, they feel self-conscious so they stand in the vestibules once all the double seats and end seats are taken. Those going more than a couple of stops could move down but they won't because they want to get off without fighting their way out, so they stand in the vestibules. Those getting on see everyone standing in the vestibules so they assume all the seats are taken and stand in the vestibules, and we leave with the vestibules rammed, everyone holding onto the rim of the air-con vent in the roof and people left behind, and empty seats.

 

Take the aisle seats off the 3 seater, add some straps and longitudinal handrails, make it easier to stand and move past the standees to get off, and you've added 20% capacity for no cost.

 

Passenger behaviour on the 308s was exactly the opposite. With 6 seats facing and a door at every seating bay people sat in the middle seats at the door at which they boarded rather than move down. People won't move down a busy train to get to a seat but they will sit on it if it's there in front of them, once the seats were all taken the standees tended to migrate to the centre gangways rather than stand in the seating bays.

Edited by Wheatley
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Although the media have decided to pick up on seats/space, it looks like DOO might be coming to LM too, hope things don't end up like Southern. From the ITT below - 

 

f) Initiatives to improve train service operations in ways that will generate long-term passenger benefits or operational improvements that will continue to accrue after the end of the Franchise Term. This can include the implementation of Driver Controlled Operation. Where DCO is proposed, the Department would require the Franchisee to undertake appropriate consultation (with passengers and the workforce) including about supporting the continual development and expansion of the professional skills of on-train staff, in particular in relation to on-board customer service to which passengers attach most value

 

5.6.9 The Department requires a Franchisee who will ensure that for any newbuild rolling stock: a) The fleet is fitted with the equipment necessary to enable the trains to be operated under Driver Controlled Operation (DCO) in passenger service without any additional station facilities other than lighting being required

 

Which is precisely why the DFT will not back down in the Southern dispute. 'Win' that one (whatever the cost to the passenger and industrial relations) and the Unions will know resistance is futile* when it comes to other franchises.

 

*(not that such a fact will make much difference to the hard left leadership of the RMT - but it might make individual members think a bit more when balloted on industrial action)

Edited by phil-b259
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I wonder of London Midland will get the TPE Class 350 fleet when it is replaced by whatever TPE is replacing them with?  That said, I presume they would be more likely to go to whichever operator eventually picks up the Trent Valley semi-fasts and the Birmingham-Liverpool services?

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