Jump to content




Photo

RevolutioN announce Class B tanks for N gauge




  • Please log in to reply
206 replies to this topic

#1 Andy Y

Andy Y

    RMweb Editor


  • Administrators
  • 15,086 posts
  • LocationStaffs

Posted 07 September 2016 - 15:11

REVOLUTION GOES TO THE TOP OF THE CLASS B!
 
Revolution Trains, the new company that uses crowd funding principles to produce niche train models, is offering the much-requested Class B fuel tanker as another potential model..
 
Hundreds of these tankers were built from the mid 1950s and they remained in service until the 1990s and are equally at home behind a 9F or a Black 5 steam locomotive as a Brush type 4 or pairs of BRCW type 3s.
 
The Class B tank was designed for carrying heavier oils and had a shorter barrel than the Class A which was built to carry the same weight of lighter petrol fuel.  If the Class B model is successful and reaches its minimum order threshold then we will also offer the Class A tanker too.
 
The wagons were developed by wagon builder Charles Roberts Ltd in co-operation with Esso, but were also used by Regent/Texaco, Mobil/Charrington, the CEGB and in plain colours for many other fuel flows.
 
They were in widespread use from the mid 1950s and are equally at home behind 9F or a Black 5 steam locomotives as behind a Brush Type 4 or pairs of BRCW Type 3s.
 
At this year's International N Gauge Show at Leamington visitors were able to inspect the first CADs of the model, which is already under development.
 
The model is being designed by former Farish engineer Colin Allbright, who also created the Ultima brand before joining Bachmann following its take over of Graham Farish in 2000 and will be manufactured in China and feature numerous separate detail parts, body-mounted NEM kinematic close-couplers and photo-etched catwalk details.
 
The prototype wagons featured two different suspension types and both are being offered.  The models will be available singly at £19.50 each or in triple packs (£58.50 each) with different running numbers.
 
The liveries available will be:
 
1)  Black with Esso branding on original suspension
35T v1 Esso.jpg
 
2)  Red with Mobil/Charrington branding on original suspension
35T v2 Mobil.jpg
 
3)  Plain black on original suspension
35T v3 black.jpg
 
4)  Black with Regent branding on revised suspension
35T v5 Regent.jpg
 
5)  Black with Texaco branding on revised suspension
35T v4 Texaco.jpg
 
6)  United Molasses brown/blue on revised suspension
35T v6 UM.jpg
 
(Note: The triple pack will feature one vehicle on original suspension and in prototypically accurate all-brown livery.
 
We had planned to focus on the modern day scene after the failure of our Class 21/29 locomotive proposal but these models have come about as a direct result of modellers online making a compelling case and we hope this will become the first example of a successful crowd-funded project suggested by our supporters.
 
Our crowd-funding methodology is still in its early years, and we are still learning, but in less than two years we have gone from raising interest in a Class 390 Pendolino to have an approval-ready working sample, and in less than 18 months from announcing TEA tanker models to having them en route to the UK ready for delivery to our customers.
 

  • Like x 8



#2 bgman

bgman

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,720 posts
  • LocationDevon knows ! Now where did I put that cake tin ?

Posted 10 September 2016 - 10:02

Best start stocking up in case there's an oil crisis ! :)
  • Funny x 1

#3 Kris

Kris

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 6,490 posts
  • LocationSomewhere in darkest Cornwall

Posted 10 September 2016 - 13:27

Great to see these wagons being produced as models.  


  • Agree x 1

#4 Ben A

Ben A

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,191 posts
  • LocationCambridgeshire

Posted 10 September 2016 - 17:38


Hi Kris,

Thanks for the support!

Just to emphasise the point, these models will only be produced if enough people sign up for them. We haven't yet set a deadline for interest but it will probably be three months, as with our previous 321 project - which received enough firm orders and is going ahead - and our Class 21/29 which did not generate adequate response and was binned.

If you are interested, even if you're not ready to commit, you can register without obligation on our website and then you can receive email updates and our newsletter which, further down the line, will give details of any deadlines so you don't miss out. We only prodiuce enough models to fulfil pre-orders.

I think it's fair to say that if this second 1960s project doesn't pass the threshold then we won't be in any hurry to look at further transition era models.

Cheers

Ben A.

#5 Kris

Kris

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 6,490 posts
  • LocationSomewhere in darkest Cornwall

Posted 10 September 2016 - 20:01

Is the sign up live on the website Ben or is it still to come?



#6 Ben A

Ben A

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,191 posts
  • LocationCambridgeshire

Posted 10 September 2016 - 23:33


Hi Kris,

The website will be updated early this week. Mike and I are both at TINGS but he will be updating the website with the Class B tankers and the hi-cube containers as soon as possible in the coming week.

Thanks for the support!

Cheers

Ben A.
  • Thanks x 1

#7 steve1023

steve1023

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 372 posts
  • LocationWest Sussex

Posted 11 September 2016 - 07:51

I think it's fair to say that if this second 1960s project doesn't pass the threshold then we won't be in any hurry to look at further transition era models.
Cheers
Ben A.


Hi Ben. I find this comment slightly disappointing - for sure the class 21/29 didn't go down to well, but as a mainly SR modeller why would I sign up to a project which had no involvement with the SR. So far your choices of model have been very modern WCML biased (again - no interest - sorry).

There are plenty choices of model out there if picked wisely - everyone will have their own views of what that could be, but to completely discount a particular era just because poor potential sales on (so far) one prototype seems quite defeatist, or a good excuse to avoid it all together.

ISTR you saying on these pages that poor sales of the desiro model could be down to having nothing really to run with it and that you hoped the 390 and 321 models would go some way to changing that, likewise the 4CEP model. There are plenty of prototype's out there which could be good sellers from the transition period. Just ask the question - people will be quick enough to wish list on these pages.

Cheers
Steve

#8 gelboy45

gelboy45

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 264 posts

Posted 11 September 2016 - 08:38

Please do not give up on transitional period model suggestions as looking around me at TINGS yesterday I must say that it looked as if most of us could be transitioning soon!  ;O)))

 

Perhaps an emu to consider would be a Bullied 4 Sub as they soldiered on for years, and seemed to go everywhere on the old Southern Region as did the more modern (?) 4 Vep in a variety of colour schemes......

 

Regards 

 

Gerry



#9 Flying Pig

Flying Pig

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,296 posts

Posted 11 September 2016 - 09:05

Since we seem to be drifting slowly towards a wishlist, any chance of option 3 being finished with one small potato yellow buffer? :)

Seriously - good choice of prototype and I hope it draws enough support to go ahead.

#10 Ben A

Ben A

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,191 posts
  • LocationCambridgeshire

Posted 11 September 2016 - 09:23


Hi Simon,

Good spot on the yellow buffer - I use Paul Brtlett's fantastic website a lot and hadn't noticed that. Presumably a one off buffer replacement for that particular wagon?

Hi Steve,

I accept that you may find that comment disappointing but let me explain the thinking.

Mike and I know that trust and credibility have a huge influence on any given modeller's decision to sign up. We are, after all, asking for money in advance.

We feel people deserve more than just a vague promise or a wishlist so before launching any proposal we research thoroughly and produce a launch package that includes press releases, web updates, clear illustrative livery graphics and (although it's not live yet) we have to create new merchandising sections on the website.

We also obtain relevant drawings and, where appropriate, permission to prodiuce company logos etc.

It takes many hours work in our own time.

For the modern stuff, that Mike and I actually want, that is obviously less onerous than for models from the 60s which neither of us have a personal interest in..

To be fair, with these wagons we have received a significant amount of assistance from other modellers on this and other forums making the case and providing research materials (making it even more of a crowd-funded concept in a way) but it still fails to Mike and I to actually create all the elements of the launch package.

If this model - which most people seem to agree should appeal to many - fails to reach its threshold then we will almost certainly come to the conclusion that, for whatever reason, the transition era modellers just aren't prepared to buy into the crowd-funding concept.

I entirely accept that is their right; and fair enough, but in turn I think we would take *a lot* of persuading that it's worth investing the effort to a third project from that era.

Does that seem fair?

Cheers

Ben A.
  • Agree x 5
  • Friendly/Supportive x 2
  • Informative/Useful x 1

#11 Littlethorpe

Littlethorpe

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 137 posts
  • LocationMaidstone

Posted 11 September 2016 - 10:46

I think the the Esso livery version will be most popular & I will be ordering the triple-pack Esso branded version. If there was a second Esso triple-pack, with different running numbers from the first, then I would order this also. Perhaps you could offer a six-pack?

 

I will also be wanting a triple-pack of the Esso branded Class A tank if the project goes ahead.

 

Regards

 

David


  • Thanks x 1

#12 Mark Saunders

Mark Saunders

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,232 posts

Posted 11 September 2016 - 14:19

Is there any collaboration with Heljan on this?

Mark Saunders

#13 red death

red death

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,243 posts
  • LocationLondon

Posted 11 September 2016 - 16:25

Is there any collaboration with Heljan on this?

Mark Saunders


No. This will be our model and tooling with no collaboration with Heljan.

Cheers Mike

#14 steve1023

steve1023

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 372 posts
  • LocationWest Sussex

Posted 11 September 2016 - 17:29

Hi Ben. Thanks for your reply in post 10 in response to my comments this morning - it's one of the good things with the smaller (no offence intended) guys that you are prepared to come on these forums and speak with (ultimately) the consumer directly.  

 

Ben - I do not believe for one minute that should this wagon project fail to appeal that it is because transition era modellers are not prepared to buy into the crowd-funding concept (your words)  - I'm really sorry but it just sounds complete rubbish - if this were true Dave Jones would never have got his class 71 off the ground and Hornby would be a little bit richer now. The failure of the class 21/29 project is probably more to do with the limited appeal of these loco's, rather than anything to do with an era thing. My favourite era to model is era 6 - so perfect transition period - I did not go for a class 21/29 because geographically they are limited. They are further limited because of their very short working lives - nothing more sinister than that.

 

On your wagon project - I must admit when I read Andy's initial post this morning my initial thought's were under-whelmed, but this is a personal thing granted. I do admit to knowing nothing about these wagons, but was hoping you were going to produce one of your little maps showing traffic flows like you did with the TEA wagons, but if they were used as much across the country as mentioned above that may not be necessary, so I will go through some of my books and see if I can find some images of them on the SR, particularly being hauled by Cromptons seeing as Dapol have their model on the way (please note that I will be buying a Green loco with small panel and would have crowd-funded it to get it if required). If I find some images I will buy into the crowd funding concept - again nothing more sinister than that and certainly not anything do with the fact I like the transition period. 

 

Kind Regards

 

Steve


  • Thanks x 1

#15 Fat Controller

Fat Controller

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 14,500 posts

Posted 11 September 2016 - 17:36

Hi Ben. Thanks for your reply in post 10 in response to my comments this morning - it's one of the good things with the smaller (no offence intended) guys that you are prepared to come on these forums and speak with (ultimately) the consumer directly.  

 

Ben - I do not believe for one minute that should this wagon project fail to appeal that it is because transition era modellers are not prepared to buy into the crowd-funding concept (your words)  - I'm really sorry but it just sounds complete rubbish - if this were true Dave Jones would never have got his class 71 off the ground and Hornby would be a little bit richer now. The failure of the class 21/29 project is probably more to do with the limited appeal of these loco's, rather than anything to do with an era thing. My favourite era to model is era 6 - so perfect transition period - I did not go for a class 21/29 because geographically they are limited. They are further limited because of their very short working lives - nothing more sinister than that.

 

On your wagon project - I must admit when I read Andy's initial post this morning my initial thought's were under-whelmed, but this is a personal thing granted. I do admit to knowing nothing about these wagons, but was hoping you were going to produce one of your little maps showing traffic flows like you did with the TEA wagons, but if they were used as much across the country as mentioned above that may not be necessary, so I will go through some of my books and see if I can find some images of them on the SR, particularly being hauled by Cromptons seeing as Dapol have their model on the way (please note that I will be buying a Green loco with small panel and would have crowd-funded it to get it if required). If I find some images I will buy into the crowd funding concept - again nothing more sinister than that and certainly not anything do with the fact I like the transition period. 

 

Kind Regards

 

Steve

The ESSO ones, which were the first to be built, I believe, originally worked on block services from Fawley, most notably to Bromford Bridge in the West Midlands. This working saw a selection of locos, from SR steam classes to double-headed BRC&W Type 3s and Brush Type 4s



#16 red death

red death

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,243 posts
  • LocationLondon

Posted 11 September 2016 - 18:37

I'm afraid that it might not be possible to do the map for something so long lived and widespread. There are plenty of images of the tanks on southern metals. Indeed some of our publicity materials have pictures with 33s/9Fs on them.

Cheers

Mike

#17 jjb1970

jjb1970

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 4,959 posts
  • LocationMilton Keynes, England

Posted 11 September 2016 - 19:00

Best of luck with these. Although its not my scale I have a lot of admiration for people with the cajones to go out and do stuff like this and wish to see them succeed.
  • Thanks x 1

#18 Bomag

Bomag

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 961 posts

Posted 11 September 2016 - 19:30

 

Ben - I do not believe for one minute that should this wagon project fail to appeal that it is because transition era modellers are not prepared to buy into the crowd-funding concept (your words)  - I'm really sorry but it just sounds complete rubbish - if this were true Dave Jones would never have got his class 71 off the ground and Hornby would be a little bit richer now. The failure of the class 21/29 project is probably more to do with the limited appeal of these loco's, rather than anything to do with an era thing. My favourite era to model is era 6 - so perfect transition period - I did not go for a class 21/29 because geographically they are limited. They are further limited because of their very short working lives - nothing more sinister than that.

 

Kind Regards

 

Steve

 

From the Hornby reference I take it that the 71 is in OO. Crowdfunding is ideal where there is enough modellers to make a model viable, but only if there is certainty of numbers and part payment up front. Without this certainty a manufacturer would not gamble on spending a lot of money developing the model. In OO there are enough modellers to make some quite obscure prototypes viable. In N to get the same number of orders will require a much higher percentage of modellers to sign up for it to be viable. Therefore these will tend to be areas which are becoming popular but where previously there was limited demand e.g. AC electrics, NSE - stuff which a 47 year old gets nostalgic about; or are 'new' and therefore have no track record of likely demand e.g. Class 390.  Transition period is popular and has been popular for some time, manufactures are likely to have a good grasp of what transition period models will sell leaving crowd-sourcing activities to look at more obscure prototypes to ensure that the big two don't do a Q6, 59, Radial etc.


  • Agree x 1

#19 Ben A

Ben A

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,191 posts
  • LocationCambridgeshire

Posted 11 September 2016 - 19:48


Hi Steve,

Mike got there before me but yes, these tanks certainly worked to Fawley. I also think there was a small refinery or terminal in Kent, possibly in the Grain area, that they frequented.

I'm glad you like the maps we had done previously (indeed, I forgot to mention the many hours research they represent in my boring and whining list about all the time/work we have to do in my earlier post!!) but these wagons were so long-lived and worked both block rakes and in smaller cuts in mixed trains that, with my lack of familiarity with the era too, I would not feel confident that any map I produce would be authoritative.

Cheers

Ben A.

#20 red death

red death

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,243 posts
  • LocationLondon

Posted 11 September 2016 - 21:35

Whilst thinking about this on the Eurostar tonight a thought occurred to me that if we gather together some representative trains we could do some form of map. It won't be as comprehensive as some of our maps but it might help spark some inspiration.

If anyone has details of some of the typical flows it would be great to start documenting them on here - I've already noted Brian's suggestion of the Fawley flow - and I will pull them altogether perhaps as a map and some sample prototypical rakes.

Cheers Mike

PS the project and ordering pages will go live when I am back in the UK on Monday or Tuesday evening (straight from the N Gauge Show in leamington on to the Eurostar to Brussels tonight!).

#21 Steven B

Steven B

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,177 posts

Posted 12 September 2016 - 12:08

Where did the United Molasses wagons run?

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.



#22 Fat Controller

Fat Controller

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 14,500 posts

Posted 12 September 2016 - 12:30

Where did the United Molasses wagons run?

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.

Quite a lot of places. Ones that come to mind are to Distiller's yeast plant at Avonside Wharf, Bristol, the distillery at Menstrie, near Stirling, and various animal-feed plants around the country. The molasses came mainly from beet-sugar refineries (so East Anglia, Midland and Yorkshire), but was also imported.


  • Thanks x 2

#23 Paddy

Paddy

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 203 posts

Posted 12 September 2016 - 16:07

Hi Ben,

 

Good choice and personally I did not realise these were the tanks behind 9Fs - thought they were TTAs but that is my lack of knowledge.

 

Any chance of some rough dates for each livery?

 

Many thanks

 

Paddy



#24 Crepello

Crepello

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 703 posts
  • LocationHornchurch UK

Posted 12 September 2016 - 16:12

Hi Ben,

 

Good choice and personally I did not realise these were the tanks behind 9Fs - thought they were TTAs but that is my lack of knowledge.

 

Any chance of some rough dates for each livery?

 

Many thanks

 

Paddy

 

TTAs also ran behind 9Fs, so there's going to be a good choice of wagons to go with them.



#25 red death

red death

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,243 posts
  • LocationLondon

Posted 12 September 2016 - 17:16

TTAs also ran behind 9Fs, so there's going to be a good choice of wagons to go with them.

 

 

Please forgive my ignorance of things steam! Were the 9Fs fitted with air brake compressors? I know some had Westinghouse pumps. Or were the TTAs vacuum fitted as well as air braked?

 

Thanks, Mike