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RevolutioN announce Class B tanks for N gauge




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#26 Suffolk Rob

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 17:34

Hi Ben & Mike

 

Great choice and will be certainly ordering some.

 

Just one question having spent a lot of my weekend reading up on the prototype -assuming I interpreted what i've been reading correctly 

 

My preferred era is around 1973-75 when i believe the wagons began to lose their Esso branding. Does the unbranded black (option 3 above) represent the wagon from that era  or is it representative of the wagons in a later period (1980s I think) when used for waste oil?

 

Rob





#27 Fat Controller

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 17:43

Please forgive my ignorance of things steam! Were the 9Fs fitted with air brake compressors? I know some had Westinghouse pumps. Or were the TTAs vacuum fitted as well as air braked?

 

Thanks, Mike

The 'TTAs' were TTVs (or perhaps TTF) at the time; those built between 1963 and 1966/7 were vac fitted, with air-braking starting with new builds from 1966 onwards.


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#28 Fat Controller

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 17:46

Hi Ben & Mike

 

Great choice and will be certainly ordering some.

 

Just one question having spent a lot of my weekend reading up on the prototype -assuming I interpreted what i've been reading correctly 

 

My preferred era is around 1973-75 when i believe the wagons began to lose their Esso branding. Does the unbranded black (option 3 above) represent the wagon from that era  or is it representative of the wagons in a later period (1980s I think) when used for waste oil?

 

Rob

The unbranded one is from the early days of TOPS (the period you're modelling), when most of the tank fleets acquired 5-digit numbers. The waste oil ones were later still, and tended to have a long list of routeing instructions on the side, along with a TOPS code starting with a 'Z'.

The unbranded tanks would have been replaced on the more important flows by TTA and TTA tanks, but would still see use carrying 'lighting-up' oil for power stations, and other industrial flows. A lot ended up with the CEGB, who used them to both carry and store fuel oil at places like Willington. http://paulbartlett....m/cegbtankwagon


Edited by Fat Controller, 12 September 2016 - 18:38 .

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#29 red death

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 18:02

Thanks Brian!

 

As a general plea - if you think that we have missed a glaringly obvious/popular livery that we can do on the Class B please let us know on here or by PM/email and we will do a bit of digging to see how feasible it would be to add an extra livery variant.

 

Cheers, Mike


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#30 Suffolk Rob

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 18:47


Thanks Brian!

 

As a general plea - if you think that we have missed a glaringly obvious/popular livery that we can do on the Class B please let us know on here or by PM/email and we will do a bit of digging to see how feasible it would be to add an extra livery variant.

 

Cheers, Mike

Mike

 

Just a thought but based on Brian's response to my question above, would the waste oil variant prove popular with 1980's/sectorisation era modellers (depending on exactly how long they lasted in this use) and open up extra sales?

 

I guess they were seen in those times in 1s or 2s rather than long rakes which might limit numbers ordered but I don't know what sort of numbers you would need to make a livery variant viable.

 

Rob


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#31 Robert Shrives

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 19:45

Ben and Mike ,

Great choice up for 3 esso and 3 unbranded - mine will go 2mmfs so once you know axle length it would be great to know to match the 2mmfsa available wheel sets. 

Hope Tings does all you want for  the  "Revolution."

Will sign on the dotted line when Mike works his magic !!

 

regards

Robert 


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#32 Ben A

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 22:15


Hi Robert,

What would be the optimum axle length for 2mm, bearing in mind it has to also be compatible with standard N?

Cheers

Ben A.

#33 Kris

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 06:22

15.2mm to match Bachmann and Dapol. 


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#34 scottishlocos

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 15:54

Guys

Good luck class 26 and 27 would look great on the United Molasses tanks think they ran from Greenock James Watt docks to Menstrie molasses being a by product of sugar refining! I think these trains came to an end with the end of Speedlink also think there was is a UM plant in Merseyside. Hopefully I will be singing up for the UM triple pack when it goes live

Dave
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#35 mikeharvey22

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Posted 17 September 2016 - 10:06

Guys

Hopefully I will be singing up for the UM triple pack when it goes live

Dave


Order page is live now at:-

https://www.revoluti...s-b-tank-wagon/

Click the "Purchase Now" button.

Signed up for a UM triple set.
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#36 mikeharvey22

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Posted 17 September 2016 - 18:07

Guys

Good luck class 26 and 27 would look great on the United Molasses tanks think they ran from Greenock James Watt docks to Menstrie molasses being a by product of sugar refining! I think these trains came to an end with the end of Speedlink also think there was is a UM plant in Merseyside. Hopefully I will be singing up for the UM triple pack when it goes live

Dave


The UM wagons operated in vacuum braked wagonload services over a wide area. As well as various imports and the well known Tate & Lyle cane sugar refineries in Silvertown, Liverpool and Greenock, there was also a supply of molasses from the myriad British Sugar factories (using beet, rather than cane) spread over the Midlands and further west, East Anglia and Yorkshire. The molasses flows from these were handled largely on wagonload services, and typically were handled on a campaign basis by basing a road tanker at the sugar factory and running a shuttle service from there to a nearby road-served siding rather than loading in the factory's own sidings. This would go on for a number of weeks until the molasses supply was exhausted. The road tanker and wagons were then based at a new loading point for a period, and so the process went on. The key issue for this process to work was reliable wagon supply, and wagon reliability. When I was involved in the traffic it took place usually from the early part of the year through to late spring, and continued well into Speedlink days. The number of wagons despatched each day was determined by the number of loads the road tanker could ferry from the factory to the siding over a shift. This was in turn determined by how far the siding was from the factory. I seem to remember that sometimes the road tankers were from a Tate & Lyle subsidiary, possibly Silver Roadways , and Manbré and Garton rather from the United Molasses road fleet. The wagon destination was always Distillers, Manstrie during the time I knew the traffic.

There is an 1959 article about UM's own road fleet which also talks about traffic flows and makes a passing reference to the use of rail:-

http://archive.comme...oughout-country

This lists ports handling imported molasses.
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#37 Tricky-CRS

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 08:57

Were these used in the late 80s to deliver fuel to Long Rock or to Hayle Wharfs?

#38 mikeharvey22

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 06:23

Some interesting shots of Class A and Class B tanks in the Hayle Wharf thread.

http://www.rmweb.co....le-wharf/page-2
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#39 Ben A

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 15:59

Hello all,

Preparatory work is proceeding on this model.

These are the preliminary drawings of both the Esso and Regent models. The next step is for these 2D drawings to be imported into a 3D CAD program.

image.jpeg

Pre-orders for this model are encouraging, but we continue to urge anyone interested to register their order, since the sooner we reach our target the sooner the models will come.

Cheers

Ben A.
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#40 Kris

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 07:42

Glad this is moving along, hopefully if will enable similar (or slightly earlier) vintage vehicles to be produced.
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#41 Tricky-CRS

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 07:48

I have backed this one for a set of three unbranded, unfortunately can't afford more at the minute. I hope this works out as it will open up other prototypes of earlier years.


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#42 maq1988

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 10:46

Just placed my order for a set in unbranded livery.

 

Cannot admit to knowing anything about the prototype but Rule #1 will apply.


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#43 steve1023

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 08:55

Hey guys. I have been searching for pics of these being hauled by Cromptons and found a couple of colour images which show not only the black Esso ones being offered here, but also what appear to be grey Esso branded 4 wheel tankers. Markings appear to black with red underframes (Rail Portfolios:The Cromptons Page 6 and 7 & Diesels in Wessex Page 4 for reference).

Would these be the same type of tanker?

Thanks in advance.

Steve

#44 red death

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 09:35

The grey ones might be the Class A tanks (if it is a mixed rake then the Class A tanks should have longer barrels on the same underframe).

 

Cheers, Mike



#45 Ben A

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 09:45


Hi Steve,

I am pretty sure Mike is right.

My understanding is that BR imposed a livery requirement of grey tank with red solebars for tanks designated Class A for lighter benzene fuels and all-over black for the heavier fuel oils, designated Class B. This lasted from the 1960s into the 1990s, though I don't know how it originally came about.

The wagon chassis is obviously limited up to a certain weight; depending on suspension, brakes etc.

Because the Class A fuels are lighter, a longer tank is needed to convey the same weight of payload. The heavier Class B fuel oils have the shorter barrel for the same load.

So the longer tanks are grey, while the shorter ones are black. I am not sure, however, why Mobil Charringtons tanks were red! And of course nowadays such colours are defunct; hence the modern VTG wagons we have already done are in a myriad of bright colours!

Cheers

Ben A.
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#46 Ben A

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 19:50


Hello all,

We have received CAD drawings for the Class B tankers.

The models will feature photo etched catwalks, ladders and, where appropriate, owners plates along with plenty of separately applied plastic and wire detail parts.

We are proposing two chassis variants. The original in Esso, Charrington/Mobil and unbranded versions:

IMG_4468.JPG

And the post-1960 version with modified suspension as used by Regent, Total and United Molasses (who actually had examples of both types in the fleet)

IMG_4465.JPG

The model is designed with NEM couplers in kinematic close-coupler mounts and has, we think, one of the most detailed RTR chassis yet offered.

IMG_4466.JPG

Once we approve the CADs, the model will be ready to be tooled.

However, despite an early surge of orders at the moment we are well short of enough to proceed. Getting to CAD is easy as CADs are relatively cheap. It is the tooling that costs the money, and without more people stepping forward and ordering we cannot justify going to the next phase.

This is our second transition era model, and both have struggled. We don't know why. Maybe the market is too fragmented; maybe the majority of transition era modellers are unwilling to pay up front to make niche models happen; maybe there are already too many transition era offerings out there and the cake is too small.

If this model has to be cancelled anyone who has ordered willl receive a full refund.

We will reassess the situation in December. If anyone is unable to order now, but does not want to miss the deadline, I suggest registering on our website without obligation and receiving free email updates with deadline alerts where appropriate.

If we do have to cancel it will be a shame as, judging from the CADs, this model has the potential to be even better than our well received modern bogie TEA tankers but we do have limited time and will then be able to focus on the models that are getting the required backing, like the Pendolino and Class 92.

Cheers

Ben A.
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#47 Suffolk Rob

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 20:35

Hi Ben

 

The CADs look great and it would be a real shame if the project didn't progress.

 

It does seem strange , when the N gauge society commissions are often prototypes with a similar lifespan, and, as I understand, it is usually the transition liveries that prove most popular, that the interest appears to be insufficient for the tanks when the collets, thompsons etc seem to do well enough for further models to be developed. I suspect you may be right about the willingness of transition modellers to commit to this type of funding model.

 

Lets hope the quality of the CADs and your presence at Warley results in a surge of interest

 

Rob


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#48 Bomag

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 23:11

It could be that there is that there is only so much money people can dedicate to sit in somebody else bank account, especially if they still have to pay a residual amount at some unspecified time. So far Revolution have had near £1k off me and about another £300 to pay off for 321s - so far I have 7 very nice tank wagons . Given that I have no idea when I have to pay the £300 (plus a similar lot for pre-ordered NG society stuff) I cannot commit to anything that I could not pay off with a months income.

 

So far there are two Class 92 options and some tanks which are vying for the same cash. Since Type B tanks are not something I can say I know enough about to comfortably order a trains worth suitable for the early/mid 1980's its probably down to a class 92 (or two).


Edited by Bomag, 03 November 2016 - 23:11 .

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#49 Ben A

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 10:04

Hi Bomag,

Yes, good points.

One reason for holding off on the 92 (until, sadly, our hand was forced) was that we are only too well aware that we are targeting the same type of customer (ie modern, esp WCML; the stuff we like) and I suspect 99% of us are subject to some form of budget limitation. This was the main reason we introduced the staggered payments.

We thought the Class B tankers - aimed at a market that we would not expect to have a huge stake in our other models - would be a welcome break for everyone!

This does not seem to be the case. The present day enthusiasts just seem more willing to accept that, with niche N gauge models, a certain level of pre-committment may be necessary.

Still, maybe seeing clear evidence of CAD progress, and with a deadline, we can get to the minimum number to justify going forward.

Your point about the money sitting in someone else's bank account is also astute.

The money we have had for the Pendolino, tankers and 321s has been paid over for development, tooling etc and the main reason for actively cancelling the Class Bs come December rather than just "waiting and seeing" is that Mike and I are both very uncomfortable about holding onto money that isn't actively doing anything!

Cheers

Ben A.


Edited by Ben A, 04 November 2016 - 14:15 .


#50 No Decorum

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 10:15

It is often said that the 00 market is much bigger than N. Perhaps that has something to do with it too. Unfortunately, Heljan prevents a suggestion to shift to 00. Interesting to note that Hugh Flynn (FTG Models) eventually shifted all of his first run of SPA wagons, despite some unfortunate features, and is now preparing CO2 tank wagons. Cavalex is proposing new PGA wagons. It might be instructive to observe how these go.

 

Understood, of course, that your first love is N.