Jump to content
 

Virgin Mk2f with hopper windows?

dale159

By dale159,
in UK Prototype Questions

Recommended Posts

  • RMweb Premium
dale159

dale159

Posted
  • RMweb Premium
Posted

Hello,

 

The other day I was watching a DVD borrowed from a friend on the subject of class 47s.

 

It got to a section on summer Saturday workings to Paignton in the early 2000s when I spotted this Virgin Mk2 aircon.

 

post-11362-0-01529200-1473596088_thumb.jpg

Do my eyes deceive me or has that been fitted with a pair of hopper windows?

 

Said train actually had two such coaches, I think it was a West Coast rake as there was a Mk3 dvt immediately behind the loco.

 

Does anyone know if these are hopper windows or is it something else?

 

Dale

Link to post
Share on other sites
Derekstuart

Derekstuart

Posted
Posted

They were probably installed in case the air conditioning failed. Like the 158s (probably others too) they could probably only be unlocked by the guard (or whatever they were called at the time).

 

stagecoach/virgin probably found it cheaper to install such hoppers than to maintain the air conditioning properly, as had been done by BR for around 30 years.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Premium
dale159

dale159

Posted
  • Author
  • RMweb Premium
Posted

Thank for your replys.

 

I have found a picture on Flickr of 6179 stored at Eastleigh in 2009 which clearly shows that they are hoppers and both in this picture are open

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barnfield-court/5695168577/in/photolist-9FgecF-sdUzPL-F5yBKw-87RjWk-oAsB19-qy4Aqg-deQ85R-eknUfQ-rosVBM-rdhsJN-e1yhov-mL9RTF-e8Ef37-kAGFgd-bKhUNB-btkCDD-qjy9Ba-nhQTA8-btkBsT-gaGUVQ-o8AiGE-o8FAgz-nfTLjD-cmVYu1-oGQqdo-btkDyK-FaecDq-5SxdYG-H4Jh1w-qEohhE-H4JgGW-rZpwrw-e4uDu2-rsykeN-fAPnxR-9C1M1P-fw85dG-rXEPwz-dG4mAD-pdmnoB-qSvWEZ-bkCjNy-C3s3RD-oqh3kc-JBffvk-f73Fnd-iW5msb-q3HxDy-6ePcUV-bixqSB

 

Dale 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Zomboid

Zomboid

Posted
Posted

They were probably installed in case the air conditioning failed. Like the 158s (probably others too) they could probably only be unlocked by the guard (or whatever they were called at the time).

 

stagecoach/virgin probably found it cheaper to install such hoppers than to maintain the air conditioning properly, as had been done by BR for around 30 years.

BR were so confident on the 158s that they fitted them from new. And then doubled the number of them on 159s when the AC turned out to be really unreliable.

The retrofitted AC (at least on the SWT fleet) is better, but still sits down on hot days.

 

Didn't 166s also get AC and hoppers?

Link to post
Share on other sites
royaloak

royaloak

Posted
Posted

Thats the one I was thinking of, thank you for finding out which one it was.

Link to post
Share on other sites
royaloak

royaloak

Posted
Posted

BR were so confident on the 158s that they fitted them from new. And then doubled the number of them on 159s when the AC turned out to be really unreliable.

The retrofitted AC (at least on the SWT fleet) is better, but still sits down on hot days.

 

Didn't 166s also get AC and hoppers?

The air con system fitted to the 158s worked well until the gas they used was banned, the replacement gas was next to useless hence 159s and a few 158s being fitted at great expense with the leibherr system.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Wheatley

Wheatley

Posted
Posted

stagecoach/virgin probably found it cheaper to install such hoppers than to maintain the air conditioning properly, as had been done by BR for around 30 years.

Unfair. BR would have left it in service whether the aircon worked or not, and they struggled with the early air con systems as well. At least the hoppers allow you to get some fresh air in, they aren't great but they are more effective than the BR solution of opening the sliding saloon doors and door droplights.

 

On a 158 (a BR design) there were something like a dozen separate fans distributing air through the system, if one failed (or even just tripped out) the rest would compensate but they would eventually overheat and also fail. If there was time to fix them overnight they were fixed, if not they went out with the hoppers unlocked. Faulty aircon was not grounds to fail it on depot and start the day -1.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Derekstuart

Derekstuart

Posted
Posted

I can agree with that. I had a small fleet of air conditioned coaches and they never worked as well with the new gas as they did with the gas they were designed for. Still, apparently it was necessary in order to stop the planet falling into a black hole or something like that.

The air con system fitted to the 158s worked well until the gas they used was banned, the replacement gas was next to useless hence 159s and a few 158s being fitted at great expense with the leibherr system.

 

I can't say that I recalled too many problems with MK2s over their lifespan and I don't think ever on a MK3- though undoubtedly they did happen, I didn't find them. My opinion- rightly or wrongly- was that virgin were far too interested in what colour their livery was and not overly interested in whether anything worked or not. That is my perception as a passenger and I have never entered their depots or seen it as a fitter.

Unfair. BR would have left it in service whether the aircon worked or not, and they struggled with the early air con systems as well. At least the hoppers allow you to get some fresh air in, they aren't great but they are more effective than the BR solution of opening the sliding saloon doors and door droplights.

On a 158 (a BR design) there were something like a dozen separate fans distributing air through the system, if one failed (or even just tripped out) the rest would compensate but they would eventually overheat and also fail. If there was time to fix them overnight they were fixed, if not they went out with the hoppers unlocked. Faulty aircon was not grounds to fail it on depot and start the day -1.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold
russ p

russ p

Posted
  • RMweb Gold
Posted

Think the northern belle mk2 BSO if fitted with hopper wondows on at least one side as well as other modifications. http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5703/23106636631_10f1cfee97_m.jpg

That vehicle has actually had its aircon removed and the hoppers are the only ventilation into the various offices and stores in the compartments

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Premium
jjb1970

jjb1970

Posted
  • RMweb Premium
Posted

There is no such thing as a rubbish refrigerant gas, it is just a refrigerant gas. If the refrigeration system doesn't work properly and the problem is the gas it is nothing to do with the gas being rubbish, it is because it is not an appropriate gas for that system, which is a manufacturer/designer issue.

The regulations removing ozone depleting substances from use are an example of regulation doing what it is supposed to. The ozone layer has been recovering and the holes going away with the reduction in ozone depleting emissions.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Derekstuart

Derekstuart

Posted
Posted

I wonder why, therefore, the effects of UV damage has been more pronounced the closer one gets to the equator rather than the poles (which is where the ozone layer was apparently most damaged).

 

A geniune Q for anyone and not a cue for an argument.

There is no such thing as a rubbish refrigerant gas, it is just a refrigerant gas. If the refrigeration system doesn't work properly and the problem is the gas it is nothing to do with the gas being rubbish, it is because it is not an appropriate gas for that system, which is a manufacturer/designer issue.
The regulations removing ozone depleting substances from use are an example of regulation doing what it is supposed to. The ozone layer has been recovering and the holes going away with the reduction in ozone depleting emissions.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Zomboid

Zomboid

Posted
Posted

At the equator the suns rays hit the atmosphere right angles (not actually correct, but a good enough simplification for this). At the poles it hits at closer to a tangent. Therefore at the equator the amount of atmosphere it passes through is less than nearer the poles, hence less gets deflected by the atmosphere.

That's my unresearched theory.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Derekstuart

Derekstuart

Posted
Posted

Sorry Zomboid, I should have been clearer. Why the levels of UV have been INCREASING more at the equator. The Sun's position to Earth has not really changed, or if it has it was a very long time ago.

 

Yet researchers are claiming the UV levels are increasing more at the equator than they are at the poles.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Premium
dale159

dale159

Posted
  • Author
  • RMweb Premium
Posted

Hi. 6179 is in the yard at Carnforth

 

wfef.jpg

 

g2gy.jpg

 

gtdn.jpg

 

Hope these help

 

Kind regards

 

Ian

Good to see it still exists and hasn't gone for scrap, if it's in Carnforth is it now owned by West Coast, if so do they use it or is it just being stored there?

 

Dale

Link to post
Share on other sites
11B

11B

Posted
Posted

Hi Dale,

 

WCRC own it, it hasn't moved much in recent years. So just what the plan is I can't say.

 

When I first saw it I did a little bit of google research and discovered that a few of the mk2f TSO's received this window treatment. Sadly, I can't seem to find it now but this could be because of the words that I used in the such box!

 

Hope this helps

 

Ian

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...