Jon Fitness' average 7mm signals workbench.

[beast66606]

Nice one John.

 

I've seen plenty of prototypes with the arms "cocked" - as long as there are no block / lever controls on them no-one seemed to mind too much

[Andy Siddall]

Hello,

 

Very nice looking signals there John, also a big thanks as this thread has made me get off my back end and finally make an ER home signal that I have had waiting for months. I also intend to make the arm

operate using the MERG servo 4 kit so have found this thread very interesting indeed.

 

As to the debate of what light source to use I went for a warm white 'tungsten' LED as I thought that this was a reasonable match for a gas lamp, therefore I have used a turquoise colour for the lens, although I think it may still be a little on the blue side, so I shall experiment with other colours for the next one.

 

Anyway thanks for all the inspiration for this project, and keep up the good work.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[Guest jonte]

Veeeerrry nice Andy.

 

A fitting tribute to Jon's genius indeed.

 

John's also inspired me to get my finger out; excuses aside, I can't make a start just yet. But hopefully, not too long now (just warming up the soldering iron

 

Jonte

[Jon Fitness]

Nice one John.

 

I've seen plenty of prototypes with the arms "cocked" - as long as there are no block / lever controls on them no-one seemed to mind too much

 

Cheers! I'll have to adjust them though. Looking at them like that will "do me 'ed in"

 

Hello,

 

Very nice looking signals there John, also a big thanks as this thread has made me get off my back end and finally make an ER home signal that I have had waiting for months. I also intend to make the arm

operate using the MERG servo 4 kit so have found this thread very interesting indeed.

 

As to the debate of what light source to use I went for a warm white 'tungsten' LED as I thought that this was a reasonable match for a gas lamp, therefore I have used a turquoise colour for the lens, although I think it may still be a little on the blue side, so I shall experiment with other colours for the next one.

 

Anyway thanks for all the inspiration for this project, and keep up the good work.

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Andy

 

Thanks, that's also a nice signal you've done there. I will be doing some ER signals shortly and I agree the warm white LED does look a bit better (see below) .I've just received a batch from Rapid Online and I like the look of them.

Veeeerrry nice Andy.

 

A fitting tribute to Jon's genius indeed.

 

John's also inspired me to get my finger out; excuses aside, I can't make a start just yet. But hopefully, not too long now (just warming up the soldering iron

 

Jonte

Ok Jonte, looking forward to seeing the results.

 

Here's a comparison of the white LED against a warm white LED

 

 

Much better I think and thanks to those who made me think about it!

The part number for warm white LEDs at Rapid online is 55-0074

 

Jon F

[Andy Siddall]

Hi John,

 

Thanks for the kind words, I'm going to try a 2 doll balanced bracket next for my platform starters, it's quite addictive this signalling bug.

 

Interesting comparison of the 2 LEDs there, I use the ones from rapid too. I found that by increasing the value of the resistor for the warm white LED I got a more convincing looking signal lamp, less of the searchlight if you know what I mean.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[Jon Fitness]

Hi John,

 

Thanks for the kind words, I'm going to try a 2 doll balanced bracket next for my platform starters, it's quite addictive this signalling bug.

 

Interesting comparison of the 2 LEDs there, I use the ones from rapid too. I found that by increasing the value of the resistor for the warm white LED I got a more convincing looking signal lamp, less of the searchlight if you know what I mean.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy,

I use a 1k resistor for indoor signals and a 470 ohm for outdoor signals (so they can be seen in daylight!)

What do you use?

Jon F.

[Andy Siddall]

Hi Andy,

I use a 1k resistor for indoor signals and a 470 ohm for outdoor signals (so they can be seen in daylight!)

What do you use?

Jon F.

 

Hi John,

 

I have just opened the box and I have used a 2k7 resistor for this one, running off of a 9v battery at the moment. I will probably have to increase that value as I intend to use a 12v supply for the final installation.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[Jon Fitness]

Hi Andy,

Sorry for the slow response; holidays intervened.

I've generally gone for a good bright light as most of the signals I've built have been for outdoor railways. Having said that, indoor layouts are usually fairly well lit at exhibitions so a brightish light shows off the extra work that goes into lighting the signals!

I'll still experiment with higher values as you suggest. It may work for me and I welcome all these ideas.

Keep them coming.

Cheers

JF

[Jon Fitness]

Well, I take on daft jobs, but this one takes the proverbial garibaldi.

 

I rashly offered to restore a couple of signals for the Diggle and Halebarns railway and this fellow (which looked little better before I started stripping it) was rescued from the layout when baseboard renewal became necessary.

The left arm has a seperate lower co-acting spec.plate and the right arm is fitted gallows style to its doll. The posts/dolls are wood, the arms and fittings in brass and white metal. there are bulbs in the lamp cases and the arms were connected to relays under the board.

As it's part of an iconic layout I'd like to restore rather than replace. I'll strip the mechanical bits off it first and take from there.

Not sure of the lineage, but I'd hazard a guess at M&H for GCR. Feel free to put me right on that one, but wish me luck!

JF

[beast66606]

Wasn't Halebarns partly CLC ? - maybe this is based on the signal that used to stand on the approach to Chester Northgate ? - good luck, it looks in worse condition than some prototypes I've seen

[Jon Fitness]

Ah, good point, I'll delve into my book collection and see what I can find.

JF

[Jon Fitness]

Made a bit of progress on the old signal this evening. (Nightshift does have the odd plus point).

Most of the manky mechanical bits have been stripped off and I've managed to re-link the arm and spec plate.



The cast whitemetal spec plate has seen better days but should live to see a few more. It should scrub up and look reasonable with a coat of paint and some glassy bits. Cleaned up the spandrels and soldered some strip along the bottom to give them a bit of rigidity. I'll clean up the mess nearer painting time.





Sadly, the arm on the RH doll is not robust enough to be repaired and still work, so I have made a replacement from brass. The spec plates (3!) were laminated together and a blade cut from some brass strip. It's not too far off the original considering they were left-over GWR bits!



A small length of brass tube was pressed into a new drilled hole (old one now being in the wrong place and too wide) on the RH doll to act as a bearing and the arm fitted with a brass 14BA bolt for a spindle.



It all seems to line up OK so I'll be making a carrier plate for the 2 bell cranks next.

I'll set it up on the bench then fit it up as a removable unit.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Jon Fitness

[Jon Fitness]

The replacement arm prepared and ready for use. The little tail is the drive rod already attached.

[Jon Fitness]

Well, I finished the old signal a week or so ago and here's the results.

Although I tried to replace as little as possible to keep the signal looking "original", the RH arm was replaced and the ladder/ and the top staging on the tall post were beyond repair.

I copied the old ladder by soldering strengthening wires down the stiles and fitted a new platform/handrail at the top.



A rootle around in the bits box unearthed some 28v bulbs to match the ones fitted which were blown (as bulbs tend to do) and they give a nice light on 12v.



Other than those jobs it was just a stripdown, clean up and restore what was left.

It won't win any prizes in a beauty contest but I gave it all a good coat of paint which should now ensure another few years of life back on the layout.


 

Edited May 30, 2015 by Jon Fitness

[Rick White]

Hi there Jon :

 

This entire modelling thread is just sensational.

Congratulations on providing such a fantastic wealth of information on signal modelling and thanks for sharing it with us in such a friendly manner.

 

Your construction methods are first rate, as are the accompanying photos.

 

I look forward to seeing more of your handiwork on this forum ... i just love it.

 

Best regards,

 

 

 

[Jon Fitness]

Cheers Rick,

It's all mostly to encourage those who haven't built signals before and I hope I can help here and there.

ATB

JF

[Jon Fitness]

Just built a 5 pack of MERG's Servo4 driver boards, so that's enough for 20 signal arms on the layout. They're still waiting for the chips to be fitted (that's them in the pack at the back)
It will be interesting to see how all these plus the one already fitted, will perform if they are all wired up to the same power source. I will stick to using micro servos and as MERG sell them at a very good price I will hopefully be using theirs.

Of course it will be some time before I use them all, but I'll report on their performance as I fit them.


Just need to send off for some extended servo leads now!

Edited May 30, 2015 by Jon Fitness

[Jon Fitness]

Building a wooden post signal.

I'm now building a wooden posted signal. It'll be a stop/distant with subsidiary (C/O) arm, LED lit and with a vaguely "ER" flavour to it. (No rivets to count here!).

The post is a machined wood one from Scale Signal Supply and to make sure its solidly planted, I've cut a base from brass strip and (not very neatly) soldered a piece of square brass tube below the base plate to accept the post.


Clear out any burrs or swarf inside the tube to enable a good fit for the base of the post.

This post is slightly wider than the square tube at the base, so mark the post with the depth of the tube and cut into the post with a razor saw. Not too deep, just enough to give you a mark to work up to.

Use a file to carefully reduce the thickness of the post in the marked area so that it's a good fit inside the tube.





If you are fitting lights to the signal do not glue the post in yet.



If you aren't, go ahead and glue the post inside the tube with either 2 part epoxy or good quality superglue.



Check for verticality and allow to set. This will provide a good strong location for the post. This one is just placed in position and will be removed to have a slot cut for the wires (more of which later!)



As I am fitting a stop arm, a distant and a C/O arm I have marked out the spacing of a scale 6' between stop and distant, with the C/O 3' 6" below them.



Next time..?

How to secure the pivots and lamps to the post.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Jon Fitness

[mikemeg]

How to secure the pivots and lamps to the post.

 

John,

 

For securing the pivots to the post, especially as you are building in 7 mm, you could do worse than follow the prototype. The pivot was a single casting with a bearing housing and a flat base, which was bolted through the post.

 

So a rectangular piece of .010" brass or nickel silver to which is soldered the pivot. Drill each corner of the baseplate (0.5 mm?) and use this to mark the post. Then drill four holes through the post, slightly more than .5 mm to allow the wires to pass through more easily.

 

Solder a length of wire (.5 mm) into each corner of the baseplate, long enough to pass through the post and leaving a couple of mm protruding, and leave about .5 mm proud to simulate the bolt at the baseplate end. Pass the wires through the post and either glue them, or solder a small bolt at the back (14 BA) and trim off the wires to size. The whole lot shouldn't then move on the post.

 

Just a thought.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Jon Fitness]

[quote/

 

John,

 

For securing the pivots to the post, especially as you are building in 7 mm, you could do worse than follow the prototype. The pivot was a single casting with a bearing housing and a flat base, which was bolted through the post.

 

So a rectangular piece of .010" brass or nickel silver to which is soldered the pivot. Drill each corner of the baseplate (0.5 mm?) and use this to mark the post. Then drill four holes through the post, slightly more than .5 mm to allow the wires to pass through more easily.

 

Solder a length of wire (.5 mm) into each corner of the baseplate, long enough to pass through the post and leaving a couple of mm protruding, and leave about .5 mm proud to simulate the bolt at the baseplate end. Pass the wires through the post and either glue them, or solder a small bolt at the back (14 BA) and trim off the wires to size. The whole lot shouldn't then move on the post.

 

Just a thought.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Not far off what I'd planned Mike!

Being a lazy so and so, I have soldered both pivot and lamp casing to a strip of brass for each arm, drilled 0.5mm hole top and bottom and will glue and pin through the post. Similar process, same effect.

The wires for the lamps will be soldered to the baseplate and LED and run in a recess down the post.

Pics will follow, just waiting for camera batteries to re-charge!

Jon F.

[Jon Fitness]

Ok, so it's not possible to solder the pivot and lamp to the wooden post so for simplicity and robustness, solder them to a carrier.

Tin a length of brass strip (about 2½" in this case) with 188°solder.


Solder the pivot tube with 188° about 1.5mm from the end of the strip and the lamp case with 145° so that the lens is in line with the red lens on the arm.


Cut the carrier strip about 1.5mm from the bottom of the lamp bracket and round off the corners of the strip with a file.


The carriers are going to be glued and pinned to the post using 0.7mm wire, so drill 0.7mm holes top and bottom of the strip.

Use these holes as a guide and drill right through the post.

Whilst holding the carrier in place, pass short lengths of the wire through the carrier and the post, leaving about 1mm showing at the carrier. A quick touch of the soldering iron should secure the wire in the carrier. Once this has cooled, lift the carrier slightly away from the post, apply some good superglue and press back in position. This will hold the lamp/pivot unit very securely. Trim the wires back to about 0.5mm each end and tidy any soldering you aren't happy with.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Jon Fitness

[Jon Fitness]

As lamps are being fitted to this signal, as much of the wiring as possible needs to be concealed.

The post is solid wood and the wiring can't run through it so a channel can be (carefully) hacked machined to accept them. This will eventually be filled and smoothed once the wires are in place

In this case I've used a cutting disc in the mini-drill to make the slot.



Usual warnings about goggles and masks apply here!



The top wiring (from the lamps to just below them) is to be done with very fine wrapping wire (the reddy-brown enamelled sort that is used in motor windings and transformers). This will then join to slightly thicker normally insulated wire just below the lamps and will exit beneath the baseplate.

The wrapping wire is supposed to be self fluxing but I've never had much luck with that. When soldering it to anything, I scrape a little of the insulation off (it's quite robust stuff) and use a liquid flux to help it along.

When joining the wrapping wire to the thicker wires, make sure the joins are staggered so they don't touch each other when they are buried in the machined slot. Don't worry about the wrapping wires touching as the insulation (as previously stated) is quite robust.



As each joint is completed, test as you go so that the job doesn't need pulling apart later to fix a little wiring fault. (Obviously you wouldn't risk it..unless you're like me, daft!)

When all is connected up, have a test before packing the wiring into the machined channel and securing in a couple of places with a few drops of superglue, making sure all wires are below the surface of the post.





Have a final test before applying some filler to the groove that contains the wires.

I have used Squadron green putty in this case.

Don't worry if things look a little tatty at this stage.

Once the filler is smoothed and a good coat of white paint goes on, it will look ok.

If you get to look at a real wooden signal post , there were usually wires exiting from various bits and pieces (lamp repeaters, switch housings etc) so it will all blend in.



Back soon.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Jon Fitness

[Jon Fitness]

Had a good bash at the wooden posted signal last night.

Work done included rubbing down the filler over where the wires are fitted.

When flatting down, keep a look out for any wires that may have sneaked to the surface, so that you don't sand through them. (Yes I've done that before.)

Most of the wiring (not all of it!) is now hidden and whatever's still above the surface will look less conspicuous once the paint's on.

I made up the lampman's stagings, from bits of scrap etch and 0.7mm wire for the handrails.

These were then glued and pinned to the signal post in a similar way to the lamp/pivot assemblies, and the ladder aligned to these and soldered wherever it touched metal!

A couple of ladder supports were then added further down the post for extra strength.

A dummy weightbar/slot arrangement was fitted 4' from the base from MSE etched parts, again glued and pinned.

I'll have a last check round for odd bits that need trimming/ cleaning up and then its paint time.


I'll still be using Halfords White car primer for this, but I'll spray quite a bit more on it from slightly farther away, so that it builds. The wood tends to soak up the paint for the first 2 coats, so a couple of thin coats to seal it, then progressive coats to build thickness with a light rubbing down before a final blast.

More soon .

Edited May 30, 2015 by Jon Fitness

[Jon Fitness]

Well, that's this fellow finished now.
It was painted in the same way as I described earlier in the thread, just with more white on the post.
I think I've managed to hide 95% of the wiring and after a little scare when the distant lamp failed to light up after I sprayed it which was traced to a dry joint on the back of the LED (phew!) it I think the wiring is OK.


That, I think, is just about that for this thread as I'm now off to build 14 Gas Works Railway signals and we all know the arms go the wrong way on those....

I'll start a new thread when I get some interesting new etched bits from Pete Harvey (Did someone mention gantries??)

See you in a couple of months.....
JF

Edited May 30, 2015 by Jon Fitness

[Pete Harvey]

Very very nice Jon

 

Pete