Dapol Class 22

[Baby Deltic]

I don't want to appear a killjoy but I do know that this is copyrighted material mate.

Just thought it best to mention this.

Gmax

 

Indeed, but this clip is not ripped off. The link is to the original youtube clip, and the owner has not disabled embedding on that clip.

[Baby Deltic]

Anyone who wants to know what a MAN engine sounds like needs to get hold of 'Diesels Through The Decades', which is a CD containing recordings from the Peter Handford collection. Peter Handford recordings were used for the dubbing of clips on 'Diesels And Electrics On 35mm'. There are several recordings of the Blue Pullmans which had the same NBL built MAN engines as classes 21 and 22. The D600's had original german built MAN engines.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Baby Deltic

[gmax]

 

Indeed, but this clip is not ripped off. The link is to the original youtube clip, and the owner has not disabled embedding on that clip.

 

Don't think it was the owner who put it on youtube though.

gmax

[Baby Deltic]

 

Don't think it was the owner who put it on youtube though.

gmax

 

The owner will need to get the clip taken off of youtube.

[Andy Y]

Technically it is not us, or the poster, breaching copyright as it's not 'published' within this site. As BD says it's a matter for the copyright holder and youtube.

[Downendian]

Lovely clip regardless of the source of sound. Must say I thought the idling 22s sounded like a 'mek, of which an identical move was filmed next. There is some short footage of D7007 and a 4F gearing up to take on the Wessex Downsman rail tour- my avatar is of D7007 when it was detached from that tour at Mangotsfield.

It's so interesting to see the old place in its prime, only ten years before I was one of those duffle-bagged equipped spotters on the end of platform 11.

Neil

 

 

[gmax]

Technically it is not us, or the poster, breaching copyright as it's not 'published' within this site. As BD says it's a matter for the copyright holder and youtube.

Have it your way. Only trying to help protect this website. Shan't bother again though.

gmax

[Andy Y]

Have it your way. Only trying to help protect this website. Shan't bother again though.

 

It's nothing to do with 'my way' so please stop being unnecessarily huffy. I have simply advised the correct position without telling you you're wrong or that you don't know the true position.

[skin_2]

Here's my attempt at a headcode, I made it from a photo of a prototype at St Blazey so at least the font will be right!

[Andy Y]

That's excellent Skin, much better.

[skin_2]

Thanks Andy, it does make a big difference to the appearance of the loco's 'face'.

[Michael Delamar]

Slightly regretting not getting a green one when they first came out, I can wait until more are released but just wondering when that is? Sorry if already mentioned, I'm on my phone and takes a while to go back through the whole thread

[Phil Bullock]

 

The MAN and Maybach engines sounded almost identical from what I can gather. The designs were very similar and both had a pulsing exhaust note.

 

In engineering terms the two diesels were rather different beasts.

 

The MAN diesel range used in the British hydraulics was essentially a basic engine design pushed to its limits to achieve an acceptable power to weight ratio - and it wasnt up to it, hence DBs rejection of it in their V200s.

 

The Maybach engine range was much more developed in engineering terms with a tunnel crankshaft - massive roller bearings through which the crankshaft could be extracted from the one piece crankcase at one end - whereas the MAN had traditional bearings with shells in a split crankcase. The top end of the MAN engine just wasnt up to it either with no piston crowns cooling although Maybachs were also prone to exhaust valve burn out - D1010 was suffering from that when I had her on the "Western Requiem" tour in Feb 1977 but she still allegedly hit the 90 mark between Kemble and Swindon. Too dark for accurate timimg but she was always known as a good un.

 

A significant effect on engine note will come from exhaust configuration due to resonant freqency and also from turbo noise - the lovely whistle on an MD655 over-run for instance. So will the D832 boys be mimicing the original exhaust layout - including moving the exhaust port from its central position on the roof to the correct offset position? Might have to issue drivers with respirators if they do as the 43s exhausts with this layout were always failing. Not aware 22s were similarly afflicted - but ought to give the most accurate sound reproduction!

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

 

Edited to correct lack of piston cooling on MAN engines - Phil

Edited December 18, 2011 by Phil Bullock

[D605Eagle]

 

The MAN and Maybach engines sounded almost identical from what I can gather. The designs were very similar and both had a pulsing exhaust note.

I have to disagree there. MAN engines sounded far softer, more akin to idling Paxman Valentas than the Maybachs which have a very definite growl. Internally they are totaly different, different turbos and very different injection systems.

[D605Eagle]

 

In engineering terms the two diesels were rather different beasts.

 

The MAN diesel range used in the British hydraulics was essentially a basic engine design pushed to its limits to achieve an acceptable power to weight ratio - and it wasnt up to it, hence DBs rejection of it in their V200s.

 

The Maybach engine range was much more developed in engineering terms with a tunnel crankshaft - massive roller bearings through which the crankshaft could be extracted from the one piece crankcase at one end - whereas the MAN had traditional bearings with shells in a split crankcase. The top end of the MAN engine just wasnt up to it either relying on a crude arrangement to feed oil to the inside of the piston crowns for cooling although Maybachs were also prone to exhaust valve burn out - D1010 was suffering from that when I had her on the "Western Requiem" tour in Feb 1977 but she still allegedly hit the 90 mark between Kemble and Swindon. Too dark for accurate timimg but she was always known as a good un.

 

A significant effect on engine note will come from exhaust configuration due to resonant freqency and also from turbo noise - the lovely whistle on an MD655 over-run for instance. So will the D832 boys be mimicing the original exhaust layout - including moving the exhaust port from its central position on the roof to the correct offset position? Might have to issue drivers with respirators if they do as the 43s exhausts with this layout were always failing. Not aware 22s were similarly afflicted - but ought to give the most accurate sound reproduction!

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

Phil I wasn't aware that the MAN engines had any form of piston cooling at all, and was one of the issues that was never addressed by Swindon in their attempts to improve engine life and reliability?

And yes new exhaust ports will be made on 832. Theres still an outside chance she'll get a pair of NBL-MANs, depends on the second engine getting purchased, and what condition its in. Hopefully they will have original MAN cast exhaust manifolds instead of the NBL fabricated steel ones which regularly split with dire consequences!

Edited December 18, 2011 by D605Eagle

[Phil Bullock]

Note to self: Brain is getting too addled to rely on - always check sources before posting!

 

You are correct of course! Its the Maybachs that the pipe directing oil to cool the piston crown - sounded a bit heath robinson so incorrectly assumed was a MAN invention. Checking my source says no piston cooling on MAN engines.

 

Will edit OP to correct

 

Thanks for pointing out error.

 

Sounds like 1st MAN is a runner - where is the second lurking?

 

All thats perhaps needed then is the correct fan grills, move the marker lights in a tad, perrhaps a shedcode plate pad on the buffer beam and Dapol Dave can get round there with his laser scanner pdq to give us the last missing main line diesel class????

 

Kind regards Phil

[D605Eagle]

The 1st engine is, although its an ex 22 or 43 engine, it has virtually zero hours since its last rebuild. I'm not sure where the second engine is, I know that Tids and co were a bit unsure about it as it has bits missing off it which might take some replacing! It might get bought and stripped for spares for the other engine. I'll ask Tids next time I speak to him what the score is.

I do believe that 832 has NBL cooling and grills already? I'm sure I read that somewhere.... I did suggest a new 42/43 in the Bachmann section, but if Dave's listening.......????

Edited December 18, 2011 by D605Eagle

[Trevor H]

http://www.rmweb.co....__fromsearch__1 Edited March 16, 2012 by Trevor H

[D605Eagle]

I presume they are still fitted, as 832 carried the NBL grilles through it's BR days.

I thought that was the case. Is it known why they were NBL and not Swindon ones?

[DapolDave]

Dave's Listening, dont you worry.

 

And i must admit to a love of hydraulics.

And i think that the Warship in any guise (and gauge) has not been done correctly..............yet

cheers

Dave

[Baby Deltic]

I have to disagree there. MAN engines sounded far softer, more akin to idling Paxman Valentas than the Maybachs which have a very definite growl. Internally they are totaly different, different turbos and very different injection systems.

 

I was going by the stereo Peter Handford recordings I have of the Blue Pullmans. There aren't any decent stereo recordings of the Blue Pullmans idling, but you can just about make it out on the clips from the Blue Pullman film. Certainly (depending on the amount of bass you give it) they have a deep throb when they're at power, and a whistle. They aren't as loud or hard as the Maybach sound from the Hymeks etc. I can't wait to hear the MAN unit powered up for real.

[D605Eagle]

Dave's Listening, dont you worry.

 

And i must admit to a love of hydraulics.

And i think that the Warship in any guise (and gauge) has not been done correctly..............yet

cheers

Dave

Woot woot!!!!

 

I was going by the stereo Peter Handford recordings I have of the Blue Pullmans. There aren't any decent stereo recordings of the Blue Pullmans idling, but you can just about make it out on the clips from the Blue Pullman film. Certainly (depending on the amount of bass you give it) they have a deep throb when they're at power, and a whistle. They aren't as loud or hard as the Maybach sound from the Hymeks etc. I can't wait to hear the MAN unit powered up for real.

Nore me! Not sure how long it will be though, theres quite a queue for the workshops at Bury, and its not a simple engine out/engine in job. A new driveshaft amongst other things is needed. But it will happen!

[Baby Deltic]

Woot woot!!!!

 

Nore me! Not sure how long it will be though, theres quite a queue for the workshops at Bury, and its not a simple engine out/engine in job. A new driveshaft amongst other things is needed. But it will happen!

 

Are they going to fit a Voith transmission? One thing I heard many years ago (when D821 was at the Colchester open day) was that one of the bogies under D821 was an NBL built one.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Baby Deltic

[Stalwart]

D821 does indeed have one NBL and one Swindon bogie. She also has a roof panel with D820 stamped on it!!

[pigeonspecial]

Hi

This is my first post as have only just joined. Hopefully this isn't repeating what's already been said. I recall reading in a Rcts journal from circa 1968-70 of a report of a train ascending the bank from Exeter St Davids - Central being hauled by a class 42 and banked by a class 43 or vice-versa. The point made by the observer was that the sound (presumably both being worked hard) was noticeably different from the Maybach and MAN engine. Hope this is of some help. Will try and find reference and give more details.

Paul