Dapol Class 22

[DapolDave]

Hi everyone,

 

As promised here is an update of the state of play with the 21 pin / 22 pin situation i announced both here and on the web site yesterday.

 

Given information from China and also thanks to you who posted the cure here, i have today converted ALL remaining stock of Class 22's that were due to go out to stockists yesterday.

These were models that were pre-sold and hadnt gone out intime and amounted to a considerable number.

 

They have now been done, and the bottom of the box has a sticker saying that its had the modification, so if you havnt purchased yet you will know what to look for if your wanting to convert the model to DCC.

 

As the model stands, it will accept the following DCC decoders without the need for modification; Locsound4 + TCS 621 that we know of as these are 21 pin but have the 22nd socket present as a reduntant hole in the socket.

 

As a new customer who has purchased one and doesnt like the idea of snipping the pin shown on the picture on page 20 of this thread, i suggest in this instance returning it to your stockists for either modification there, or having them send on to us for me to do it here.

 

Please note that Dapol will honour this modification with warranty cover, and should you make a complete 'horlicks' of the cutting of the pin, then we will also either repair it ourselves for you, or supply a replacement 21pin PCB board for you to fit as soon as i have them.

 

The conversion takes about 90 seconds and the replacement PCB fitting take about 5 minutes if you do these yourselves.

I will post PCB wiring scematics here soon, once i have them.

 

Once again apologies for this problem, but trust me, we will do everything in our power to put it right for you.

cheers

Dave

[Andy Y]

i have today converted ALL remaining stock of Class 22's .............

................and amounted to a considerable number.

 

I thought you'd been quiet today.

 

Seriously though; well done and thanks for the communications over it.

[BrushVeteran]

 

I too 'accidentally' bought a D6331 at Warley and will be looking to renumber to the earliest appropriate class member that carried this livery in this condition - so thanks for this.

 

I'm not used to renumbering green diesels - any views on whose transfers are most suitable/correct? I normally use HMRS for my steam stock.

I would thoroughly recommend the Replica rub-on transfers either direct from Replica or ex.stock from Howes. I have been using these for over 10 years and they are still useable if stored in the re-seal packets that they are supplied in.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Despite them having absolutely nothing to do with the Waverley Route I purchased D6331 yesterday. As acknowledged in the accompanying leaflet, three years in preparation.

You and your team have done well to take your time in developing the model, Dave .The care taken with it shines out from every nook and cranny.

Good, careful work and the good listening habits you've cultivated have culminated in a superb piece of craftsmanship which to my mind elevates Dapol into the 4mm Premiership!

In company with the Model Rail Sentinel, it has certainly increased my anticipation of the Diesel Electric NBLs and the 10000!

 

Additional Brownie points for the professional way you've handled the 'socket crisis'!

 

Dave. (Utterly impressed Class 22 owner)

Edited November 23, 2011 by Max Stafford

[Baby Deltic]

Picking up my 'greenun' tomorrow.

[Captain Kernow]

 

Actually Cap'n, it looks like the stumbling block is a design issue:

I agree, although I think that if there were sufficient numbers waiting to be ordered, the economics would support the necessary development work.

[Captain Kernow]

if any ingenious P4 modeller here comes up with a reasonably idiot proof method of conversion, I'd love to hear!

Well, I won't be letting this stop me converting one to P4.

 

Options now open so far appear to be:

 

Turn the existing Dapol wheels down to P4 profile (time to get the lathe down to Devon and set up!)

 

or

 

Some adaptation of an existing Ultrascale 3' 7" S.R. tender wheel. Although this is 10 spoked, as opposed to 11, I have used these wheels in a Silver Fox version. The link to the product is here: http://www.ultrascale.co.uk/btw0001.php

[dave flint]

seriously fellas, will knowing it has 10 spokes instead of 11 be

 

a) noticeable

B) worth losing sleep over

 

I'm all for fidelity, but there comes a point.....

[Phatbob]

D6315 or D6316 would be your best choices for 1964, earlier conversions received larger boxes which were fitted higher up the nose.

 

Trevor

 

Cheers Trevor. Thanks for that.

[Pennine MC]

seriously fellas, will knowing it has 10 spokes instead of 11 be

 

a) noticeable

b ) worth losing sleep over

 

I'm all for fidelity, but there comes a point.....

 

As far as I can see Dave, by saying that the suggested tender wheel is a 10 spoke, the Captain is just making a simple observation. He's not saying it's either noticeable or worth worrying about, in fact as he's used them in another 22, if anything he's saying the opposite. I'm all for fidelity, I'm also all for informed choice and allowing folk to make their own decisions.

Edited November 23, 2011 by Pennine MC

[buffalo]

I agree, although I think that if there were sufficient numbers waiting to be ordered, the economics would support the necessary development work.

The news from Ultrascale is a bit disappointing, though if enough people register an interest, there may be hope yet. In the meantime, I've been looking at what needs doing and thought I'd pass on a few pictures and measurements for those contemplating an EM or P4 future for their 22.

 

Firstly, removing the axle with its brass bushes by gently levering under the axle is straightforward, despite the warning in the instructions. I expect Dapol are worried that the more ham-fisted might damage the delicate pb pickups that bear on the top of the bushes.

 

 

The axle assembly consists of a pair of wheels on stub axles that are pressed into a plastic muff bearing the final gear. The bushes are drilled so that they fit one way round. The outer hole diameter matches the stub axles and the inner fits over the end of the muff. There is a little room for sideplay (<1mm) between the end of the bush and the back of the wheel. A thin plastic washer is inserted between the wheel and the bush.

 

 

It may be difficult to turn the wheels to P4 profile because the spokes are very close to the edge of the tyre on the outside, but are recessed by more than 1mm on the inside. The next photo shows the wheel profile compared with that of a Gibson OO/EM wheel.

 

 

Measurements are as follows:

 

20.30mm between outer faces of wheels

14.56mm back-to-back

2.87mm wheel thickness

2.04mm axle diameter

9.65mm stub axle length (including wheel thickness)

 

This looks like reasonably good news for the EM fraternity who, provided they can live with the wheel profile, may be satisfied with pulling out the wheels from the muff by a little over 1mm on each side. For P4, though, it does look like we will need to investigate CK's option of alternative wheels.

 

Nick

 

ps. Thanks for posting the drawing, Mike.

Edited November 23, 2011 by buffalo

[Gdaysydney]

I have an 8 pin socket in my class 08 so a 22 pin in a class 22 would seem an obvious way to go

[Brinkly]

Is it just me or does the Dapol wheel have a lump on the left hand side? It looks like the surface of wheel is very bumpy!

 

Regards,

 

Nick

[buffalo]

Do you mean in the last photo, Nick? It looks like it, but I've just been back to the original image from the camera and I think it's a trick of the light combined with that of resizing the image. It certainly wasn't noticeable when I had it in my hand and the engine runs smoothly enough. Unfortunately, it is now back together again so I can't really check. However, at the full resolution you can see a continuous straight line along that edge. I think the effect comes from the two highlights (two lights). The bright one left of centre makes the edge appear higher whilst the fainter one right of centre picks out more of the face of the wheel and so makes the edge appear lower.

 

Nick

[Captain Kernow]

Based on what Nick (Buffalo) has so helpfully posted, I'm thinking that replacement 2mm stub axles plus the Ultrascale 10 spoke wheels may be a reasonably pain-free conversion for P4. I don't have a spare set of P4 spoked wheels at the moment, so I won't be able to try this immediately, even once I get my blue Class 22, but it's certainly worth thinking about.

 

Interesting that the pick up arrangements are different from the Model Rail Sentinel, which had pin-point axles with pick ups coming off the axlebox cones.

[Guest oldlugger]

The news from Ultrascale is a bit disappointing, though if enough people register an interest, there may be hope yet. In the meantime, I've been looking at what needs doing and thought I'd pass on a few pictures and measurements for those contemplating an EM or P4 future for their 22.

 

Firstly, removing the axle with its brass bushes by gently levering under the axle is straightforward, despite the warning in the instructions. I expect Dapol are worried that the more ham-fisted might damage the delicate pb pickups that bear on the top of the bushes.

 

 

The axle assembly consists of a pair of wheels on stub axles that are pressed into a plastic muff bearing the final gear. The bushes are drilled so that they fit one way round. The outer hole diameter matches the stub axles and the inner fits over the end of the muff. There is a little room for sideplay (<1mm) between the end of the bush and the back of the wheel. A thin plastic washer is inserted between the wheel and the bush.

 

 

It may be difficult to turn the wheels to P4 profile because the spokes are very close to the edge of the tyre on the outside, but are recessed by more than 1mm on the inside. The next photo shows the wheel profile compared with that of a Gibson OO/EM wheel.

 

 

Measurements are as follows:

 

20.30mm between outer faces of wheels

14.56mm back-to-back

2.87mm wheel thickness

2.04mm axle diameter

9.65mm stub axle length (including wheel thickness)

 

This looks like reasonably good news for the EM fraternity who, provided they can live with the wheel profile, may be satisfied with pulling out the wheels from the muff by a little over 1mm on each side. For P4, though, it does look like we will need to investigate CK's option of alternative wheels.

 

Nick

 

ps. Thanks for posting the drawing, Mike.

 

Thanks very much Nick for showing us that. I really admire your brave move! I could hardly bring myself to pull apart such a new and nice looking model... so soon! Yes, the P4 option does look limited after seeing the existing wheels and the way they have been made. Spending £125 on a model and then having to bodge something up to get it running seems a little primitive and expensive, akin to the bad old days of converting a variety of vaguely similar looking diesels to the elusive class 22. Oh dear what a shame. One other possibility are P4 Black Beetles with spoked wheels... gawd, I don't know why I'm even thinking these ridiculous things. More down the moolah vortex.

 

Cheers

Simon

[Brinkly]

Do you mean in the last photo, Nick? It looks like it, but I've just been back to the original image from the camera and I think it's a trick of the light combined with that of resizing the image. It certainly wasn't noticeable when I had it in my hand and the engine runs smoothly enough. Unfortunately, it is now back together again so I can't really check. However, at the full resolution you can see a continuous straight line along that edge. I think the effect comes from the two highlights (two lights). The bright one left of centre makes the edge appear higher whilst the fainter one right of centre picks out more of the face of the wheel and so makes the edge appear lower.

 

Nick

 

Cheers Nick.

[DapolDave]

Ok, here's an idea!

If someone supplies me with a spec for the wheels you want, how about I approach my Chinese factory and ask them for a price / feasibility?

No promises mind, but it might just be a profile 11 spoke option for the fine scalers!

Let me know what you think

Cheers

Dave

[Brinkly]

That would be excellent Dave. I certainly would be interested.

 

Regards,

 

Nick.

[BlackRat]

Is it possible to secure some od tube over the Dapal axle, then some more of the same dia tube as the axle glued inside, to 'extend' the axle at all?

 

Sounds more complicated than it is, or vice versa with that stub on the wheel ?

[gmax]

 

I too 'accidentally' bought a D6331 at Warley and will be looking to renumber to the earliest appropriate class member that carried this livery in this condition - so thanks for this.

 

I'm not used to renumbering green diesels - any views on whose transfers are most suitable/correct? I normally use HMRS for my steam stock.

 

On the renumbering subject, can anyone suggest the best way to remove the numbers from one of these lovely machines in order to leave an unblemished surface for renumbering?

Thanks in advance.

Steve

[buffalo]

What a wonderful idea, Dave. The P4 wheel spec, including a drawing of the tyre profile, can be found on pages 2 and 3 of this document on the scalefour soc pages.

 

Nick

Edited November 23, 2011 by buffalo

[buffalo]

Is it possible to secure some od tube over the Dapal axle, then some more of the same dia tube as the axle glued inside, to 'extend' the axle at all?

Are you thinking EM? If I understand you correctly, then no, because the position of the brass bearings relative to the muff is fixed because they slot into the sides of the bogie centre/gearbox. You would probably need some extra washers between the outside of the bearings and the back of the wheels to take up sideplay.

 

I think my initial approach for EM would be just to just ease out the wheels and stub axles from the muff by a bit over 1mm each side. There seems to be enough friction between muff and axles to make this viable. If not, a drop of Loctite would soon fix it.

 

Nick

[BlackRat]

Dave what a great idea, and dont forget, Dapol has led the market before, the J94 tank came with alternative EM axles and wheelsets.!

[Tankerman]

Ok, here's an idea!

If someone supplies me with a spec for the wheels you want, how about I approach my Chinese factory and ask them for a price / feasibility?

No promises mind, but it might just be a profile 11 spoke option for the fine scalers!

Let me know what you think

Cheers

Dave

Dave, I would certainly be interested in an EM set. Taking the idea further you could enquire, before production, how many buyers of the D6XX Warship model would like them supplied with EM gauge wheels. This would make you the first manufacturer to supply a RTR EM gauge loco.

 

As an aside, with a very personal opinion, I have been amazed at how many posts concern very minor errors in a mass produced model, but the fact that the model will be operated on track which is way under scale is apparently of no concern at all.