Jump to content
 

Were GWR 1400s based around London?


Guest nzflyer

Recommended Posts

Hi all,

 

According to the Great Western Archive website, only two ex-GWR 14xx 0-4-2T locomotives were allocated around London in 1950, Nos 1443 and 1462 at Southall. 

 

No. 1443 was built in April 1935 and was based at Southall throughout it's life before being withdrawn in June 1957. A Google image search will find that it was without top feed and had an early crest, although there are very few decent photographs of this model.

 

No. 1462 was built in February 1936, first based at Reading before being allocated to Southall/Staines for the remainder of its life until its withdrawal in September 1962 from Exeter. Photographic evidence suggests that this locomotive lived long enough to gain a top feed, although I'm unsure if it gained the later 'ferret and dartboard' emblem. There is also evidence that this locomotive was found working on the Lyme Regis branch line at the end of its life, probably after its final allocation to Exeter St. Davids.

 

So would it be possible to find either of these locomotives working on the suburban lines around London, or to be seen around the famous Western locales of Paddington or Old Oak Common? I've seen plenty of pannier tanks but I was wondering if my favourite class of locomotive ever made it to see the city lights.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Google image search for "Greenford Branch Autotrain" returns a photo of 1474 (Not one of the two in the above post) at Greenford. Link is to a blog, and can't find the image in context there, so no idea of the date.

 

Good bet that 1443 and 1462 ran on the Ealing Broadway to Greenford shuttle.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

From my own recollection.....

 

1474 was shredded at Southall in 1961/2.  It worked the service from Ealing Broadway to Greenford,  There was a siding at the end of the platforms at Ealing Broadway where the loco and trailer could stand between services. The siding was between the main lines and the relief lines, with a water crane to replenish the loco.  Two auto trailers were used at this time - they were the Hawkskworth designed vehicles named Thrush and Wren, painted in BR maroon at this time.  As far as I can remember this loco remained in black livery.

 

This service was the last steam hauled one to follow the pattern of services originated with the introduction of rail motors. The service ran along the main line from Ealing Broadway to West Ealing, then it took to the loop which joined the Paddington - Reading line with the Paddington - Birmingham line, terminating in its own platform at Greenford.  There were a number of halts on this line, including West Drayton, serving the housing developments which were built along the western side of Ealing in the 1930s.

 

The normal daily service was a single auto trailer, strengthened at peak times with the addition of a second trailer .  The loco was usually on the Paddington side of the rain.

 

Ian

Link to post
Share on other sites

The loco was at the country end.  This enabled the second trailer to be deposited as required in the siding at Ealing Broadway, known as the "car park".  Two sets were required to run the service.  The one which finished around midnight ran to Paddington and shuttled between there and Hayes or West Drayton through the night.  The halt on the branch just round the corner from West Ealing was Drayton Green.  The last day of auto working to Greenford was 24th August 1958.  The following day they were replaced by single unit diesels and drive end trailers of the class later known as 122.

 

I recall Thrush and Wren with great affection!

 

Chris [aged 10 in 1958] 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Hi all,

 

According to the Great Western Archive website, only two ex-GWR 14xx 0-4-2T locomotives were allocated around London in 1950, Nos 1443 and 1462 at Southall. 

 

No. 1443 was built in April 1935 and was based at Southall throughout it's life before being withdrawn in June 1957. A Google image search will find that it was without top feed and had an early crest, although there are very few decent photographs of this model.

 

No. 1462 was built in February 1936, first based at Reading before being allocated to Southall/Staines for the remainder of its life until its withdrawal in September 1962 from Exeter. Photographic evidence suggests that this locomotive lived long enough to gain a top feed, although I'm unsure if it gained the later 'ferret and dartboard' emblem. There is also evidence that this locomotive was found working on the Lyme Regis branch line at the end of its life, probably after its final allocation to Exeter St. Davids.

 

So would it be possible to find either of these locomotives working on the suburban lines around London, or to be seen around the famous Western locales of Paddington or Old Oak Common? I've seen plenty of pannier tanks but I was wondering if my favourite class of locomotive ever made it to see the city lights.

1462's trial on the Lyme Regis branch took place in November 1957 (and it did carry a top feed at that time) so the loco was presumably allocated to Exeter for at least the last 5 years of its service. **

 

Looking at 1443's withdrawal date, it seems possible that 1462's transfer west might have taken place at the same time **. 

 

The Locoshed books list only 1420 and 1431 as being based at Southall in 1959 and just 1407 by 1960, down from six in 1955.

 

EDIT: ** BR Database lists 1462 as transferred to Swindon 11/1955 and Exeter 03/1959, so she may have been on-loan at the time of the Lyme Regis trial. The 1959 Ian Allan Locoshed book, ("Allocations checked to 21st January 1959"), shows Swindon, with the 1955/6 edition (checked to 21st May 1955)  still showing Southall, so both entries tally with the website. 1960 edition (checked to 23rd April 1960) has her at Exeter.

 

John

Link to post
Share on other sites

There were a number of halts on this line, including West Drayton, serving the housing developments which were built along the western side of Ealing in the 1930s.

 

You meant to say Drayton Green, not West Drayton...

 

Ah, I see chrisf has mentioned it!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest nzflyer

1462's trial on the Lyme Regis branch took place in November 1957 (and it did carry a top feed at that time) so the loco was presumably allocated to Exeter for at least the last 5 years of its service. 

 

Looking at 1443's withdrawal date, it seems possible that 1462's transfer west might have taken place at the same time, leaving none in the London area thereafter. 

 

EDIT: BR Database lists 1462 as transferred to Swindon 11/1955 and Exeter 03/1959, so she may have been on-loan at the time of the Lyme Regis trial. The 1959 Ian Allan Locoshed book, ("Allocations checked to 21st January 1959"), shows Swindon, with the 1955/6 edition (checked to 21st May 1955)  still showing Southall, so both entries tally with the website. 

 

John

 

From the Lyme Regis article on Wikipedia, "In British Railways days, there was again concern about the age and maintainability of the now elderly locomotives, and a former Great Western Railway 14XX 0-4-2T no. 1462 was trialled on the branch, but it was underpowered for the demands of the line."

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest nzflyer

So far I can commit to research of 1474, 1420, 1443, 1462 and 1426 as well as the stations at West Ealing, Ealing Broadway, Greenford, West Drayton, Uxbridge Vine Street (nice sounding name) and Staines West. The story of the 'Thrush' and 'Wren' coaches are interesting to say the least! Sounds a bit like something out of Thomas the Tank Engine. Did they actually have the names painted on the side in British Railways cream lettering or was it scratched on in chalk?

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

The story of the 'Thrush' and 'Wren' coaches are interesting to say the least! Sounds a bit like something out of Thomas the Tank Engine. Did they actually have the names painted on the side in British Railways cream lettering or was it scratched on in chalk?

The names were properly applied - they are present in the official photographs.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest nzflyer

I've just found some colour photos of Thrush with lettering. Great! I've found photos of her in both Carmine and Cream and then in BR Maroon. If I was to create my own 'Thrush' and 'Wren' carriages I have a few names. Blackbird, Starling, Sparrow, Swallow, Robin and Goldfinch. I'll pretty partial to Starling and Robin. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you can get hold of a copy of British Railways Illustrated Volume 7 Number 9, June 1998 (strangely this information is not printed on the cover), there is a very detailed article by Martin Smith on the 48xx/14xx tanks allocated to the London Division of the WR. Between 1948 and 1962 Southall had a fleet ranging from none (1949) to 7 (1955). Those allocated there over the years were: 1402, 1406, 1410, 1415, 1429, 1426, 1431, 1436, 1438, 1443, 1446, 1456, 1458, 1462, 1474.

 

Edited to correct my mistake; The volume and month details are on the front cover, albeit quite hard to see due to lack of contrast.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've just found some colour photos of Thrush with lettering. Great! I've found photos of her in both Carmine and Cream and then in BR Maroon. If I was to create my own 'Thrush' and 'Wren' carriages I have a few names. Blackbird, Starling, Sparrow, Swallow, Robin and Goldfinch. I'll pretty partial to Starling and Robin. 

 

When Thrush and Wren were named in 1952 the intention was announced of naming the rest of the batch [220 - 234] but it was never done.  A list of intended names was published but, Sodde's Law being what it is, I cannot find it.  228 has had the name Chaffinch applied in preservation.

 

Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites

When Thrush and Wren were named in 1952 the intention was announced of naming the rest of the batch [220 - 234] but it was never done.  A list of intended names was published but, Sodde's Law being what it is, I cannot find it.  228 has had the name Chaffinch applied in preservation.

 

Chris

 

Found it!  In John Lewis's book where I was looking for it an hour or so ago.  Blackbird, Bullfinch, Chaffinch, Goldfinch, Jackdaw, Kingfisher, Lapwing, Skylark and Starling.  With Thrush and Wren that makes 11 and there were 15 in the first batch.  What, I wonder, of the other four?

 

Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest nzflyer

Found it!  In John Lewis's book where I was looking for it an hour or so ago.  Blackbird, Bullfinch, Chaffinch, Goldfinch, Jackdaw, Kingfisher, Lapwing, Skylark and Starling.  With Thrush and Wren that makes 11 and there were 15 in the first batch.  What, I wonder, of the other four?

 

Chris

 

What were the numbers for Blackbird, Goldfinch, Starling and Skylark please chrisf? If you know? My bet for other names would be Sparrow, Robin, Swallow and Magpie. Maybe Bunting and Redpoll, although if I do have a railway layout I'd like to name the stations Yellowhammer, Redpoll and Bunting Hill.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Great Western Branch Lines 1955-65 by CJ Gammell, OPC has two nice shots. 1415 at Greenford 11.8.56 and 1438 at Acton on the main line. The latter quoted as due to engineering work the Greenford service was extended to Southall. 16.2.58

Link to post
Share on other sites

Two matters arising:

 

1.  I'm afraid the numbers to which the names would be applied are not given and it was never done.  My source is a facsimile letter from K W C Grand, Chief Regional Officer, dated 18th May 1952 and reproduced on the last page of a book by John Lewis [which may explain why I could not find it earlier].

 

2.  Re the engineering work on 16th February 1958.  The purpose was to replace the bridge carrying the North London line over the WR near Old Oak Common.  Trains from Paddington to west of West Ealing turned right st Old Oak Common, left at Greenford and right at Drayton Green.  This left no way of serving Acton Main Line and Ealing Broadway and no paths for the Ealing Broadway - Greenford service.  The auto photographed by Chris Gammell at Acton Main Line shuttled between there and Southall, calling at Ealing Broadway, West Ealing and Hanwell.  There are some small boys on and around the track in the photograph.  I know I was there that day, four days before my 10th birthday, but further than that I cannot go!

 

Chris 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest nzflyer

Could Southall locomotives be cut up for scrap on site? I know a few 61xx locomotives were based at Southall and I'm eyeing up an old Airfix kit online for a few dollars that I'm willing to purchase and turn into a scrap diorama if I decide to model a shed scene with a 14xx and autocoach.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Could Southall locomotives be cut up for scrap on site? I know a few 61xx locomotives were based at Southall and I'm eyeing up an old Airfix kit online for a few dollars that I'm willing to purchase and turn into a scrap diorama if I decide to model a shed scene with a 14xx and autocoach.

 

On-site scrapping at Southall seems unlikely. That doesn't mean to say you can't model such a scene though!  ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

If this isn't too far off-topic that it needs a new thread, how many branches formerly worked by 14XXs and autotrailers are still open to passengers today? I can only think of the Greenford loop and Bourne End to Marlow. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

If this isn't too far off-topic that it needs a new thread, how many branches formerly worked by 14XXs and autotrailers are still open to passengers today? I can only think of the Greenford loop and Bourne End to Marlow. 

 

Slough to Windsor

Princes Risborough to Aylesbury

 

Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...