Oxford Rail announce OO gauge 6-wheeled GWR Toad Brake Van

[Miss Prism]

And here are the four AA1s. Oh dear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ozexpatriate]

I guess I'm not very good at this game.

 

I've never seen one and don't have photographs.

 

I cannot assess these more than 'cosmetic' appeal and am certainly not as discriminating a buyer compared to some.

 

The Swindon version is the only one that appeals to me. I'm certainly no expert but it feels like the lettering for the running number and tare might be a bit large, but overall they look OK to me at £15.

[The Johnster]

I'm reasonably happy, especially at £15, and will spring for a 4 or 6 wheel one in late GW or early BR, probably whichever hits my local shelves first, but probably not both.  I am pushing it a bit for the 50s for mid-Glamorgan in the 50s to start with, and the 'normal' van needs to be the long wheelbase Hornby.  The gap in the footboard on the 4 wheeler is easily filled with a bit of Milliput and I can live with the other errors.  

 

Anybody know if you can get inside one?  I haven't completely abandoned my interior detailing idea yet...

 

Well done Oxford for not whitewalling the tyres!

[57xx]

Whoops, I stumbled across another "lazy CAD" error last night. I've never paid much attention to the 6 wheeler as it's not something that I fancied getting. However whilst looking in "GWR Good Wagons" last night at AA3 pictures, I came across the AA1 and almost immediately spotted Oxford have got the suspension wrong on the centre axle. The spring is supposed to be on J hangers, unlike the correctly done outer springs on the swinging links. I would guess a lazy cut-n-paste in CAD rather than paying attention to the actual details on the prototype. 

[The Stationmaster]

And here are the four AA1s. Oh dear.

 

oxford-aa1-production-GWR.jpg

 

oxford-aa1-production-BR.jpg

 

Unless they've got the photos to support the detail there appear to be some rather peculiar lettering styles, or rather combinations of lettering, on one of those items.  Fortunately however changing lettering - thanks to various available transfers - is not the most difficult job in the world.

 

As far as I have been able to establish the marking 'R.U.' (Restricted User) was introduced c.1943 and according to GWR documentation  "At certain Depots [brake] vans are set aside for specific working and are branded R.U. (Restricted User); these vans must not be allowed to work other than on the local services for which they are appointed."  The reason for this was mainly because during WWII the way in which freight brakevans were allocated and used began to change and effectively (although it is a dangerous term to use without care) they went into less restricted use than had previously been the case - what this actually meant was that they were no longer allocated to individual Goods Guards who had previously held the keys for their own allocated brakevan.

 

Therefore the R.U. marking can legitimately appear on some GWR freight brakevans when in GWR livery - e.g. Bridport R.U.

 

The 'Not In Common Use' branding is definitely post nationalisation and the earliest written reference I can find to it is dated 1960 although it might well date from a bit earlier (but not very much earlier judging by one documentary source).  However photos I have seen - so obviously not exhaustive only show it in use with the later pattern of depot allocation marking, i.e. the depot name is painted in the panel adjacent to the verandah and not in the earlier GWR location of further along the van body.  However it is quite possible that styles were mixed and a photo could show a specific exception.

 

One thing I haven't been able to date - but it would have been in the standard wagon painting Instructions - is the date when the black background panels came into use but I know that another manufacturer has a photo allegedly dated 1950 showing an ex-works van with black panels behind the lettering and described as 'the new painting style' (although the roof was still white).

 

Another interesting feature - not really relevant here - is that some RU vans were also numbered with the digit(s) appearing to the right of 'R.U.' or below it.

[The Johnster]

Unless they've got the photos to support the detail there appear to be some rather peculiar lettering styles, or rather combinations of lettering, on one of those items.  Fortunately however changing lettering - thanks to various available transfers - is not the most difficult job in the world.

 

As far as I have been able to establish the marking 'R.U.' (Restricted User) was introduced c.1943 and according to GWR documentation  "At certain Depots [brake] vans are set aside for specific working and are branded R.U. (Restricted User); these vans must not be allowed to work other than on the local services for which they are appointed."  The reason for this was mainly because during WWII the way in which freight brakevans were allocated and used began to change and effectively (although it is a dangerous term to use without care) they went into less restricted use than had previously been the case - what this actually meant was that they were no longer allocated to individual Goods Guards who had previously held the keys for their own allocated brakevan.

 

Therefore the R.U. marking can legitimately appear on some GWR freight brakevans when in GWR livery - e.g. Bridport R.U.

 

The 'Not In Common Use' branding is definitely post nationalisation and the earliest written reference I can find to it is dated 1960 although it might well date from a bit earlier (but not very much earlier judging by one documentary source).  However photos I have seen - so obviously not exhaustive only show it in use with the later pattern of depot allocation marking, i.e. the depot name is painted in the panel adjacent to the verandah and not in the earlier GWR location of further along the van body.  However it is quite possible that styles were mixed and a photo could show a specific exception.

 

One thing I haven't been able to date - but it would have been in the standard wagon painting Instructions - is the date when the black background panels came into use but I know that another manufacturer has a photo allegedly dated 1950 showing an ex-works van with black panels behind the lettering and described as 'the new painting style' (although the roof was still white).

 

Another interesting feature - not really relevant here - is that some RU vans were also numbered with the digit(s) appearing to the right of 'R.U.' or below it.

 

Very useful information, Mike, particularly in my case about the 'Not in Common Use' and depot name marking, as it is really only suitable for the very end of my nominal period of 1948-60.  This will save me the price of a couple of sheets of 'Tondu' transfers from Cambridge, equal to a new mineral wagon for my rake of coal empties.  'Par's' days on my new Hornby van are numbered...

[TheSignalEngineer]

A picture on the Halesowen branch I linked a while ago (see post #91) shows one with 'Not in Common Use' dated 1955

Edited August 13, 2017 by TheSignalEngineer

[57xx]

The Swindon version is the only one that appeals to me. I'm certainly no expert but it feels like the lettering for the running number and tare might be a bit large, but overall they look OK to me at £15.

 

Running number looks to be about the right size (full plank height), but tare is bigger than the examples I've seen in photos.

[OnTheBranchline]

And here are the four AA1s. Oh dear.

 

oxford-aa1-production-GWR.jpg

 

oxford-aa1-production-BR.jpg

 

Why oh dear?

[Miss Prism]

Why oh dear?

 

Because they turned out even worse than expected. See also the AA3 thread.

[tomparryharry]

I'm not too sure about the verandah. Some would have horizontal planking, some steel sheet. I'd guess I'd arm myself with the photographs, and then alter the van to suit.

I think it's liable to be the photos on RM Web.(after all, all 4, in one go?)  It's ust one of those things. I'd like to see them in the flesh.

Given that Bachmann are asking nearly £30 for a Midland (cough! Midland!) van, then we ought to be not too harsh

Ian.

 

Edited because my proof reading is rubbish (again).

Edited November 13, 2017 by tomparryharry

[The Johnster]

A six wheeler for the Cwmdimbath branch, to cope with the steep drop from terminus to pit?  Yeah, go on, why not; it doesn't look too bad to me and if the handrails are separate I'll prolly go for one, and a 4 wheeler as well.  The earlier liveried Bordesley would be a livery variant, which is a good thing in my view, though of course it would need rebranding.

 

Next question; are the lamp brackets capable of having Modlu lamps placed on them?  Not a deal breaker if they're not, as I can replace them with my own brackets, but it'd be nice if they were.  Hornby's are too flimsy.

Edited September 21, 2017 by The Johnster

[lofty1966]

You're worried about a bracket , yet fine with wrong spring hangers and planking/sheeting ?

Takes all sorts.

Edited September 22, 2017 by lofty1966

[The Johnster]

Yeah, really.  I don't need to place a removable tail lamp on the spring hangers or planking/sheeting; my approach is less scale and more general than that, and I can put up with fairly significant inaccuracies/mistakes if the overall dimensions aren't obviously awry and the livery is well executed; Oxford make some good stuff for my purposes.  Obviously I would prefer a dead scale model, who wouldn't, but someone who runs a Hornby 2721 and a Mainline vintage auto trailer that doesn't know if it's an A27 or an A30, (or possibly an A28) isn't really in a position to complain to much about a brake van which is the only version of GW 6 wheeler ever likely to hit the RTR market.  

 

If I am that bothered by the inaccuracies when I see the model in the shop, I probably won't buy it, but otherwise, or if there are problems with the model that I reckon I can deal with from my own limited ability (such as sheeting over incorrect planking), I might well have a go.

 

The things that I find obviously wrong and cannot accept in a model are odd, unpredictable, and vary from model to model; I do not seem to operate to any prescribed plan or set of opinions.  The 2721 is a case in point; almost nothing about this ex-toy is to scale, but I find it captures the look, and, with the chimney, safety valve cover, and buffers replaced on mine, am quite happy with it.

 

Actually not worried about the bracket, as I can easily replace it with one of my own home made ones; this is modelling, albeit not at a high level of accuracy.  Once the brackets are painted and weathered in, they are not obvious, and are in any case hidden by lamps for at least half of the time!  Just wanted to know if Ox had made a better fist of it than H did on their otherwise excellent toad, and their Hawksworth BG which has also let me down in this way.  Southern BY is fine!

Edited September 22, 2017 by The Johnster

[darren01]

Anyone know when these are due?.

Darren

[rembrow]

Anyone know when these are due?.

Darren

 

Hattons are showing the first of the 6 wheel Toads, GWR livery with base area as Swindon, as having come into stock today. 

[ColHut]

Slightly OT, was the six wheel Toad (as opposed to 4 wheeled Toad) built to provide lighter softer springing for a better ride at higher speed or for ome other reason?

 

regards

[The Johnster]

No, to increase braking power.  The idea that anybody was concerned with guards' comfort is laughable.  The only ones that were even vaguely comfortable were the Southern's Queen Marys, and they were as draughty as the others.

 

Glad these are starting to become available, as I want a BR or late GW liveried one for Cwmdimbath.

Edited November 13, 2017 by The Johnster

[tomparryharry]

The 6-wheel brake van carried a heavier weight (about 25 tons) and was braked on all 6 wheels. The idea was to include a heavier brake force capability. Ride characteristics were about the same. Speed was about the same (about 20 mph). 

 

Ian.

[DavidR]

Just had a notification that my 'Swindon' van is on the way from Liverpool.

[81C]

Hattons have sold out quickly so found one at Rails Sheffield can't wait for a bit of butchery    .

[tomparryharry]

The 6-wheeler interests me, but I'd like to see one first.

 

I'm wondering what was the destination point for London bound coal trains, principally for the Western. Acton? Southall? Old Oak? Reading?

 

Ian

[The Johnster]

Acton for the GW.

[Guest Midland Mole]

Hopefully we get our stock of these soon. I want two, one for display and one for a totally unrelated conversion.

Alex

[The Stationmaster]

The 6-wheeler interests me, but I'd like to see one first.

 

I'm wondering what was the destination point for London bound coal trains, principally for the Western. Acton? Southall? Old Oak? Reading?

 

Ian

 

Depended on where the traffic was going, some went to Southall for local stations, some to Acton and some to Old Oak Common - again it all depended on the ultimate destination and also where it had come from.  In the latter case coal from the West Midlands for Kensal Green gasworks was usually put off at Park Royal or North Acton and tripped from there to either Old Oak or direct to Kensal Green.  A lot (most?) of the traffic headed for SR destinations went via Old Oak until the yards there were closed and it was subsequently dealt with at Acton.  The GWR's largest domestic coal yard on the mainline in the London area was Crimea Yard and the coal for there was tripped from Old Oak.  Coal Class traffic was also dealt with at Chelsea Basin which was originally also tripped from Old Oak but might possibly have been serviced via Acton after the freight yards at Old Oak were closed - I'm not sure whether coal handling at Chelsea Basin outlasted the yards at Old Oak.