Revolution Trains proposes Class 92 in N

[Guest eddie reffin]

Have left a couple of comments on the NGF but it's not somewhere I frequent a lot due to the real pain of posting up pictures. I digress!

 

I think what we have seen here though is a real appetite for good quality WCML based models which Revolution are tapping into. Long may it continue.

 

PS, how about a pocket wagon, FSA, FCA etc. Pretty pretty please

[Budgie]

How about an Electrostar?

[Padishar Creel]

I think what we have seen here though is a real appetite for good quality WCML based models which Revolution are tapping into. Long may it continue.

 

Agree...

​And whilst I admit it is almost becoming an obsession for me (  ), MK2Cs and an RBK [or similar] would round off the WCML stock perfectly

[MGR Hooper!]

What motor are you'll using in this? Coreless or 3/5-Pole? Or something else?

[Revolution Mike]

PS, how about a pocket wagon, FSA, FCA etc. Pretty pretty please

 

I'm amazed that no one has done the FSA/FTA.  We keep trying to convince Dapol to do the pocket wagon - I suggest people who want some continue to ask them about it like we do!

 

Cheers, Mike

[Revolution Mike]

What motor are you'll using in this? Coreless or 3/5-Pole? Or something else?

 

Our experience is that specifying the running characteristics (and allowing the factory to pick something appropriate) is more important than the type of motor.

 

Coreless motors clearly have some advantages (and some disadvantages) but our experience is that the rest of the chassis is at least as important than the type of motor.  Coreless motors are often used as a bit of a marketing gimmick ie if you put a great motor in a poorly engineered chassis with rubbish gears you will get a poor runner.

 

Cheers, Mike

[bigP]

--

Edited January 31, 2021 by bigP
Deleted

[Stu from EGDL]

Hi Gang,

 

Just adding a few words about Mk3 sleepers.

 

Mark 3 sleepers would be a very welcome addition to the stock box and available in a variety of liveries from Blue/ grey through Interciry and Swallow (including the odd one with a Scotrail blue stripe) right up to the present day with First Caledonian Sleeper and Serco Sleeper blue liveries. Add FGW liveries in fagpacket and First Blue and now GWR green...and the canvas is set for a great variety of models.

 

To put a fly in the ointment, as previously described, the Mk2 coaches on the Caley sleeper almost have bespoke window arrangements due to being heavily refurbished for the job and whilst the Night Riviera runs with Mk 3 coaches (currently), the use of BFOs from the ex Clansman/Manchester Pullman Mk3b sets mean that these coaches are more difficult to produce in a feasible batch number and compatibility. There will of course be some options for window filling and altering when the Farish Aircon Mk2 coaches eventually see the light of day.

 

Although we would all love to run 16 coach sleepers hauled by a 92 with awesome haulage ability, I expect the reality for most will stretch to about 6-9 coach trains.....so 6 or 7 sleepers with a Mk2 RLO and. BFO would be most agreeable.

 

Later,

Stu from EGDL.

[roundhouse]

Even I could get away with a rake of mk 3 sleepers as I was at Leamington Spa one time when the Caledonian sleeper came through EC due to a blockage on the West Coast mainline

[frobisher]

Heading slightly off topic, but following the footsteps of others [he makes excuses for himself...] but if Revolution were to tackle MK2s, what about the Pullmans as a first target? No current danger of duplication, a goodly chunk of the R&D is obviously transferrable plus just three basic types to produce and a nice chance to produce a prototypical complete rake in a box for those that want one.

[definate maybe]

Have no need for a 92 personally but the Mk3 sleeper would be a great addition. It covers so many areas of the country. The 3 main lines north in Scotland (West Highland, Inverness, Aberdeen) You have both The ECML & WCML. The GWML and I believe cross country routes as well back in the late 80's. Intercity land cruises had several with the white roof, as well as a few one offs such as VSOE, Northern Belle and there is even a maroon one used by Jarvis (?) on engineering services with (iirc) a crane.  

personally 3 Intercity swallow examples would be very welcome.

Good luck with all projects and sorry for going off topic on what should be a very promising class 92.

Regards

Mark

[charliepetty]

Hello all,

 

It's early days at the moment. There is an MOQ for any specific paint finish based around the cost of creating the paint masks etc, and a smaller MOQ for modifications (such as different numbers or names) that require only a change of tampo print.

 

Once we reach the MOQ for a change of number in any given livery we will very seriously considering offering another. There is no reason not to.

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

 

We wish you would do a Fell Locomotive!!   Charlie

[jjb1970]

Our experience is that specifying the running characteristics (and allowing the factory to pick something appropriate) is more important than the type of motor.

 

Coreless motors clearly have some advantages (and some disadvantages) but our experience is that the rest of the chassis is at least as important than the type of motor.  Coreless motors are often used as a bit of a marketing gimmick ie if you put a great motor in a poorly engineered chassis with rubbish gears you will get a poor runner.

 

Cheers, Mike

A most refreshing post from a manufacturer if I might say!! Things like 'coreless motor', 'five pole skew wound motor' etc are a bit like many other marketing hooks such as the MP count of cameras or the power output of stereo amplifiers - it is a gross simplification in terms of promoting a simple association of a single performance parameter to try and indicate the performance of a product. The motor is only one part of the power train and I find the grear train and transmission and pickup arrangements matter more than the motor itself. Some of the best runners on our train set are Hornby Railroad models with flywheel fitted three pole motors. Despite the humble spec they are smoother and quieter than other models with much more impressive paper specs.

[MGR Hooper!]

Our experience is that specifying the running characteristics (and allowing the factory to pick something appropriate) is more important than the type of motor.

 

Coreless motors clearly have some advantages (and some disadvantages) but our experience is that the rest of the chassis is at least as important than the type of motor.  Coreless motors are often used as a bit of a marketing gimmick ie if you put a great motor in a poorly engineered chassis with rubbish gears you will get a poor runner.

 

Cheers, Mike

Though not the answer I was looking...but thanks anyway! My question was more to do with the fact that the type of motor used may/may not need me to buy a newer controller due to the few issues listed by many re core-less motors.

 

Cheers.

[Guest eddie reffin]

Oh bu99er. Looks like I've had another moment of weakness. Caley Sleeper one now ordered to join the other three previously.

 

These locos really have allowed my creative mind come up with all sorts of Mossend type layout plans. There are a few brilliant junctions down there just crying out for modelling.

Edited October 26, 2016 by eddie reffin

[davepallant]

Our experience is that specifying the running characteristics (and allowing the factory to pick something appropriate) is more important than the type of motor.

 

Coreless motors clearly have some advantages (and some disadvantages) but our experience is that the rest of the chassis is at least as important than the type of motor.  Coreless motors are often used as a bit of a marketing gimmick ie if you put a great motor in a poorly engineered chassis with rubbish gears you will get a poor runner.

 

Cheers, Mike

 

I remember early on in the Pendolino project Mike or Ben posted up a video of a Rapido N gauge locomotive performing very slow speed control to show just how good the Rapido chassis was. Hopefully Rapido will be able to pick us out a suitable technology for the 92 chassis as well!

 

Dave

[Revolution Ben]

Hi Dave,

 

I think that is the right approach. I have written elsewhere that there are advantages and disadvantages with coreless motors but rather than assume knowledge it might be helpful to outline them here.

 

The advantages are that they are small and smooth.

 

The disadvantages are that in some circumstances they can struggle to dissipate heat. Overheating can be a problem inside the motor, as the resin that holds the windings can degrade and the motor collapses, and a problem for heat sensitive parts (such as plastic bodyshells) outside but near the motor.

 

Coreless motors can also suffer from longitudinal vibrations on the driveshaft. If you are only driving to one end - for example Farish in their steam locos - this is not an issue as there is free movement at the other end. But if you want to take drive to both ends, as in a bogie loco, then this can cause issues.

 

In a small loco, or one like a steam loco with space limitations, the advantages of a coreless motor may outweigh the disadvantages and in these circumstances we think it is right to consider their use.

 

Where space is not at a premium - such as in the body of a large diesel or electric - I would say a 5-pole cored motor that experience shows is smooth, reliable, rugged and with plenty of torque is the preferred option.

 

There is another factor which is that while Mike and I - and Rapido - are happy to innovate, we are wary of introducing too many new features on a single model. The Pendolino power transfer couplers have taken some development, and I am glad that the relatively bullet-proof Rapido motor was one thing we didn't also have to worry about. With the 92 we are planning other innovative features, so needlessly putting in an untested motor adds a dimension of uncertainty and complexity that we think ill-judged.

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited October 29, 2016 by Ben A

[MGR Hooper!]

Hi Dave,

 

I think that is the right approach. I have written elsewhere that there are advantages and disadvantages with coreless motors but rather than assume knowledge it might be helpful to outline them here.

 

The advantages are that they are small and smooth.

 

The disadvantages are that in some circumstances they can struggle to dissipate heat. Overheating can be a problem inside the motor, as the resin that holds the windings can degrade and the motor collapses, and a problem for heat sensitive parts (such as plastic bodyshells) outside but near the motor.

 

Coreless motors can also suffer from longitudinal vibrations on the driveshaft. If you are only driving to one end - for example Farish in their steam locos - this is not an issue as there is free movement at the other end. But if you want to take drive to both ends, as in a bogie loco, then this can cause issues.

 

In a small loco, or one like a steam loco with space limitations, the advantages of a coreless motor may outweigh the disadvantages and in these circumstances we think it is right to consider their use.

 

Where space is not at a premium - such as in the body of a large diesel or electric - I would say a 5-pole cored motor that experience shows is smooth, reliable, rugged and with plenty of torque is the preferred option.

 

There is another factor which is that while Mike and I - and Rapido - are happy to innovate, we are wary of introducing too many new features on a single model. The Pendolino power transfer couplers have taken some development, and I am glad that the relatively bullet-proof Rapido motor was one thing we didn't also have to worry about. With the 92 we are planning other innovative features, so needlessly putting in an untested motor adds a dimension of uncertainty and complexity that we think ill-judged.

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

Thanks for that detailed post! Prior to this (and your PM) I found it hard to find concrete posts on coreless motors, all other posts are scattered in many threads.

[Revolution Ben]

Hello all,

 

Rapido have sent us through the first CAD iteration of the forthcoming Class 92 in N.  

 

There are some detail additions to be made, and a few areas to be tweaked, but here are a couple of preview images.

 

 

The double arrows will be etched, not moulded, and the representation of the coupler hook and draw gear are yet to be added. This is one area being modified for the new Mk5 Caledonian Sleeper stock that is due to arrive in 2018 I believe.  The CAD shows the full moulded valance, though of course this is detachable when the standard NEM coupler is used.

 

 

The pantograph well shows lots of nicely done and separate detail; the pantograph is poseable and features an etched head.  This is similar to that on our Pendolino (though the pantographs, while both made by Brecknell Willis, are slightly different to cope with the Pendo tilting) and anyone who's seen our Pendo samples will know Rapido are excellent at this sort of fine detailing.

 

There are a couple more images on our website, and as we refine the CAD and add more details we will keep publishing images to keep our supporters informed.  We should have finished, or nearly finished, CADs by the Warley National Model Railway exhibition at the NEC in three weeks, where we are sharing a stand with Rapido, and we look forward to seeing people there!

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[davepallant]

Hi Ben,

 

Thanks for the update and the tweet! Looking good. Interesting to see how many pieces go to make up something with a relatively simple underlying bodyshell!

 

Looking forward to Warley and further drawings.

 

Dave

[cornish trains jez]

Hi Ben,

 

Great to see the CAD's arrive for the 92! Am I mistaken or is the class 321 taking a bit of a backseat at the moment? I'm reallly keen for both models but slightly more excited about the 321.

Hope it's still progressing well.

 

Best regards,

 

Jeremy

[Revolution Ben]

Hi Ben,

 

Great to see the CAD's arrive for the 92! Am I mistaken or is the class 321 taking a bit of a backseat at the moment? I'm reallly keen for both models but slightly more excited about the 321.

Hope it's still progressing well.

 

Best regards,

 

Jeremy

 

Hi Jeremy,

 

The drawing office has been working on both these projects for a while, and the 321 has a lot of underframe detail and, of course, is four vehicles not just one.

 

I am hoping for 321 CAD images soon too, but we did ask the drawing office to prioritise the 92 a few weeks ago for obvious reasons.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[MGR Hooper!]

Hello all,

 

Rapido have sent us through the first CAD iteration of the forthcoming Class 92 in N.  

 

There are some detail additions to be made, and a few areas to be tweaked, but here are a couple of preview images.

 

92 web 1.jpg

 

The double arrows will be etched, not moulded, and the representation of the coupler hook and draw gear are yet to be added. This is one area being modified for the new Mk5 Caledonian Sleeper stock that is due to arrive in 2018 I believe.  The CAD shows the full moulded valance, though of course this is detachable when the standard NEM coupler is used.

 

92 web 2.jpg

 

The pantograph well shows lots of nicely done and separate detail; the pantograph is poseable and features an etched head.  This is similar to that on our Pendolino (though the pantographs, while both made by Brecknell Willis, are slightly different to cope with the Pendo tilting) and anyone who's seen our Pendo samples will know Rapido are excellent at this sort of fine detailing.

 

There are a couple more images on our website, and as we refine the CAD and add more details we will keep publishing images to keep our supporters informed.  We should have finished, or nearly finished, CADs by the Warley National Model Railway exhibition at the NEC in three weeks, where we are sharing a stand with Rapido, and we look forward to seeing people there!

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Hello Ben,

 

The CADs look excellent...! (imagine a pantograph)

Edited November 6, 2016 by MGR Hooper!

[cornish trains jez]

Hi Jeremy,

 

The drawing office has been working on both these projects for a while, and the 321 has a lot of underframe detail and, of course, is four vehicles not just one.

 

I am hoping for 321 CAD images soon too, but we did ask the drawing office to prioritise the 92 a few weeks ago for obvious reasons.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Cheers Ben. It take it the 92 has been more popular quicker than the 321 then? Understandable. Can't wait to see the 321 CAD's though, any idea when they will be available? I won't hold you to a date!

 

Best regards,

 

Jeremy

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hi Jeremy,

 

I really don't know. I know it is being worked on at the moment; but there is a lot of detail on the underframe and we gave them a lot of source material to plough through! I am hoping to see something in the next few weeks.

 

Rest assured we will post them on our website as soon as we have something to show. One thing we will need to do is start filtering down the selections to those that stand a realistic chance. That process will definitely start soon after Warley.

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.