Jump to content
 

Waggon und Maschinenbau railbus


JZ
 Share

Recommended Posts

Just an odd prototype question.

I presume that the green with whiskers variant covers the longest period of operation, but which of the two yellow panel variants had the longest operational life span?

I still find it amazing that a machine that operated in obscure parts of Essex, near my place of birth, has a) actually appeared in RTR form. B) is proving to be extremly popular and of interest to any one but me.

Bernard

Link to post
Share on other sites

Conclusions?

 

Excellent packaging, nothing amiss on arrival

Delicate to get into like most today, any damage was caused by me

Good runner straight from the box, but close examination of the mechanism showed dry gears & bearings. Lubrication definately was needed, as always sparingly & with care.

 

Stewart

 

 

I've just received my Heljan Railbus model and would echo Stewart's summary. The only fault with my model is that it seems to run slow in both directions. I have tried running it in on my continuous circuit using conventional DC control (Gaugemaster Model D) and have had to apply 50% power to get it moving and 75% to run it in. Even then it is moving relatively slowly. It is quiet, but despite the wheels/track being spotlessly clean, I feel it could do with light lubrication.

 

Is there an easier method to lubricate the gears/axle rather than take the roof off, etc? I notice that there are three screws underneath each axle on the underside. Is it safe to remove these and add a little lubrication?

 

Appreciate any advice on this.

 

Thanks,

 

Paul

Link to post
Share on other sites

From the leaflet enclosed with the model:

 

"Lighting: as per the prototype, the model displays white lights in the direction of travel but no rear light.

In reality, these railbuses carried a traditional oil lamp at the rear to display the red light"

 

Quite correct it is too. While most photos tend to show the railbuses at rest or approaching, those that do show them departing have a red oil tail-lamp placed on the bracket over the right-hand buffer (from the observer's perspective).

Link to post
Share on other sites

http://bawdsey.wordp...nenbau-railbus/

Three screws allow access to final drive train, mine was well lubricated, (as will I be later), worth checking though.

 

Thanks PMP.

 

Hope you don't over-lubricate yourself, otherwise it may affect your running qualities tomorrow LOL.

 

Appreciate the link to your website with the clear instructions and pictures, showing the removal of the gearbox cover. I shall check and see if lubrication is required on my model, and if so, whether it improves the performance.

 

Regards,

 

Paul

Link to post
Share on other sites

I removed the gearbox covers and both axles/gears were already well factory lubricated, so I'm not sure why my model is running slow and jerky.

 

It's a shame as it's a well detailed model, and short of knowing what to do next, I fear that I might have to return it to a well known mail order company in the Liverpool area.

 

Glum,

 

Paul

Link to post
Share on other sites

First, a comment on tail lamps. Until about the eighties it was a requirement for every train to carry a separate tail lamp to show to signalmen it was complete. I believe this is now only a requirement for trains unable to display high intensity lighting.

Regarding the Heljan railbus, as others have said, an excellent looking model. Running seems a pot luck issue. My mate had one running round the club layout in each direction, from a crawl to a prototypical looking top speed for about 2 hours. My own, I tried a couple of days later with different results. From a good crawl it ran jerkily up to about half speed, in either direction. Further running didn't improve matters. I'd noticed the plates by the wheels and commented at the club that with the weight plus 2-axle drive it could earn its keep hauling a train!.

Anyway the plates were removed and revealed a lot of thick grease amongst the gears. This was part of the problem with Heljan's class 17 'Clayton' loco causing it to run slow. So I cleaned out most of the grease, put it together but no better. Believing the grease may have got to the motor bearings, I set about gaining access to the motor. The instructions mention checking motor oiling without actually telling you how to get to it. It requires the removal of every screw you can see (all 17 I think!) plus light guides. This releases the upper body half, cast roof weight, interior, lower body half, cast upper chassis half and cast lower chassis. Between these last two is the motor held snugly in recesses in the castings by 2 'O' rings. Each end of the motor is a cone shaped flywheel running closely in similar shaped recesses in the chassis castings. Here lay the problem!, the copious grease was all around the flywheels and in what little clearance there was, preventing the motor reaching full speed. I cleaned it all up, put it together, ran it, and for a short while it seemed ok, then it started to slow down. Subsequent investigation revealed the damage had been done with the motor burning out. This, after discovery of the suppressor chokes in the 21 pin blanking plug having failed.

 

Hope this of help to anyone else.

 

Jim.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

...Here lay the problem!, the copious grease was all around the flywheels and in what little clearance there was, preventing the motor reaching full speed. I cleaned it all up, put it together, ran it, and for a short while it seemed ok, then it started to slow down. Subsequent investigation revealed the damage had been done with the motor burning out...

 

We seem to have heard this before. I do hope we are not about to witness Class17gate all over again.

 

Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites

Do Heljan have a policy of making their models as difficult as possible to fit a DCC decoder? Remove the airhorns? Prise out the doors? Not for me unfortunately. I'm not averse to some disassembly but Heljan seem to go out of their way to increase the risk of damage/loss of small parts for decoder fitting. Shame.

 

C. :(

Link to post
Share on other sites

Do Heljan have a policy of making their models as difficult as possible to fit a DCC decoder? Remove the airhorns? Prise out the doors? Not for me unfortunately. I'm not averse to some disassembly but Heljan seem to go out of their way to increase the risk of damage/loss of small parts for decoder fitting. Shame.

 

C. :(

 

I was amazed at the number of screws underneath the chassis let alone anywhere else. Why do Heljan seem determined to make the body difficult to remove? It's a shame as this is an attractive little model. I'm having to return mine to a mail order company in Liverpool that begins with an 'H' as I'm having to apply 50% power just to make it move and then it does so very jerkilly. 80% power still means it is running very slowly. I suspect this is not right somehow, even taking into account the low gearing.

 

Let's hope the replacement will be a smooth runner.

 

Paul

Link to post
Share on other sites

There are 3 things I think are paramount for all RTR models:

 

1. They must all be Ready To Run - that is they should come out of the box and run on track without requiring the purchaser to engage the dexterity of a screwdriver or to dismantle said model from its packaged condition. It should also have little or no bits "floatng" in the box requiring knowledge or skill to add/replace.

 

2. They should (at least to the reasonable minded) look a pretty close replica of the prototype - but from a reasonable layout viewing distance not the macro camera lens. Given allowances for scale, gauge and manufacturing process.

 

3. They should be sufficiently different to complement the market - not just copycat or insignificant (I would add irrelevant) detail changes from an existing RTR model. With the given exception of valid livery variants.

 

This model has met all three IMO. I'm not a typical modeller and actually purchase very few RTR models but this one had that overwhelming appeal of real difference and "strange" prototype. Also at Hattons very acceptable pre-order price it was a must have. Mine arrived promptly after notification email, well packed as always by the team at Hattons. Out of the box it looks the part - I care little for lights and frankly will be quite happy if/when they eventually fail. I will never be modelling the prototype locations and as always on my railway it can run anywhere the track can take it and alongside anything else that happens to be there.

 

Run it certainly does and after a very short exercise on the rolling road the speed in both directions is perfect - slow and realistic. I have no wish for toy train speeds and this was never an express. I generally believe that most layouts are operated at ridiculous speeds much to their chagrin, so slow speed is a must for any model and this one wins points in my eyes.

 

Although I feel capable, I will not be opening this RTR model up. AFAIC It shouldn't be required of any model. I have a belief that the main market for these RTR is as a toy and as far as RTR is concerned I play toys (with a modeler's hat on). So in that belief I think th e manufacturer has no intention of the purchaser opening the thing up to poke around inside and more fool them if they break something while doing so.

 

I have no intention of upgrading it to DCC and if there is one serious complaint to Hejan it is that if it was ever intended as a DCC "ready" model then why not provide a simple access panel underneath in which to insert the chip? All it takes is some thought and a little more wiring. But I guess the same complaint can be leveled at all the manufacturers.

 

Most RTR models supplied these days, including my meager purchases, seem to be over lubricated. So given some of the comments above there is some temptation to have those covers off to clean out the drool, but I will resist as "why break what is not broken".

 

All in all, a very good product from Hejan supplied perfectly at a reasonable price by Hattons to a happy customer who is wishing he had a big oval of track to run it round rather than just back and forth over the pointwork which for a 4 wheeled vehicle it negotiates exceedingly well.

 

I know there are many modellers out there who like to pull their models apart, rework their detail inside and out and simply cannot bear the thought that someone else has an identical model to their own. Good luck to them and I admire some of their pioneering spirit in breaking up these purchases into their minutest component parts. That is kind of them, as when/if, maybe never, the model goes wrong and requires repair then I have a guide to follow. But it should certainly not be the natural course of events following a purchase of a RTR model.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I was amazed at the number of screws underneath the chassis let alone anywhere else. Why do Heljan seem determined to make the body difficult to remove? It's a shame as this is an attractive little model. I'm having to return mine to a mail order company in Liverpool that begins with an 'H' as I'm having to apply 50% power just to make it move and then it does so very jerkilly. 80% power still means it is running very slowly. I suspect this is not right somehow, even taking into account the low gearing.

 

Let's hope the replacement will be a smooth runner.

 

Paul

 

What type of controller are you using?

 

I originally test run mine with a Hornby train set controller and it needed a lot of welly to get moving but when I swopped to an old H & M unit it started as soon as I turned the control knob and ran smoothly. Top speed on the railbus doesn't seem to be high but then the real things didn't hurtle around.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What type of controller are you using?

 

I originally test run mine with a Hornby train set controller and it needed a lot of welly to get moving but when I swopped to an old H & M unit it started as soon as I turned the control knob and ran smoothly. Top speed on the railbus doesn't seem to be high but then the real things didn't hurtle around.

 

I'm using a convetional DC Gaugemaster model 100M controller. I think I've been unlucky and received a dud. It's jerky and seems to struggle, whereas other Heljan models work fine with no problems.

 

Appreciate you highlighting the issue of the controller, but as the gears and pick up are ok, I suspect there is an issue with the motor.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to clarify my earlier posting. I believe the motor is ok, (unlike the initial release of the class 17) it seems to be the amount of grease Heljan have put in the mechanism. Too much and its like stirring treacle - slow and hard work!. So if we have a model full of grease it will travel slow no matter how much power is applied but it will draw more current. Some models seem to have about the right amount whilst a few have little or none at all, as I said - pot luck!.

I would add that I've been doing loco repairs and kit chassis building on off since Hornby Dublo days for a local shop and club.

So I have no desire to take a model apart if it runs well!.

Ref the tail lamp item, I was a signalman for a number of years.

 

Jim.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If its of use to anyone here are some pictures of disassembly -

 

TimP

 

http://www.pearsonsw...m04032012.shtml

 

I have just received my Heljan railbus from Hattons. Upon opening it in order to fit a DCC decoder I saw the little red wire that should feed the internal lighting was loose just as in your case. This was without even removing the circuit board. I'm not at all impressed with the fragility of the wiring loom and that you should have to disturb it to install a decoder. I don't know if anyone else has suffered the same problem?

Hattons don't have any more in stock and indicate that this particular one is now discontinued so I despair at getting a replacement! It's a pity as this is a handsome model, ideal for the smaller layout (and not out of place on a larger one too).

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was amazed at the number of screws underneath the chassis let alone anywhere else. Why do Heljan seem determined to make the body difficult to remove? It's a shame as this is an attractive little model. I'm having to return mine to a mail order company in Liverpool that begins with an 'H' as I'm having to apply 50% power just to make it move and then it does so very jerkilly. 80% power still means it is running very slowly. I suspect this is not right somehow, even taking into account the low gearing.

 

Let's hope the replacement will be a smooth runner.

 

Paul

 

Well the replacement arrived today (Friday) and I have to say that it runs much smoother and I'm now happy with this lovely little model. I must thank Hattons for their prompt service and for despatching the replacement so quickly. I only returned the faulty railbus to them on Monday.

 

I hope other forum members haven't experienced too many problems with theirs. I never thought I would see a railbus produced by a mass manufacturer, so it's good to know that we have other railbus types to look forward to. Can't wait for the Park Royal version!!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Well the replacement arrived today (Friday) and I have to say that it runs much smoother and I'm now happy with this lovely little model. I must thank Hattons for their prompt service and for despatching the replacement so quickly. I only returned the faulty railbus to them on Monday.

 

I hope other forum members haven't experienced too many problems with theirs. I never thought I would see a railbus produced by a mass manufacturer, so it's good to know that we have other railbus types to look forward to. Can't wait for the Park Royal version!!!!

 

Glad to hear that your replacement is OK. My replacement had further faults - glue deposits on the body,

poor running and the two body halves would not fit together properly. I have had enough and requested a refund. I do not have the time or patience to sort out Heljan's erratic quality issues.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad to hear that your replacement is OK. My replacement had further faults - glue deposits on the body,

poor running and the two body halves would not fit together properly. I have had enough and requested a refund. I do not have the time or patience to sort out Heljan's erratic quality issues.

 

You must be really unlucky, I bought my second one yesterday and both have been fine in all respects.

 

The second one came from my local model shop (Modellers Mecca in Wall Heath) who still had all four versions at a few pence less than I bought my first one from Hattons.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad to hear that your replacement is OK. My replacement had further faults - glue deposits on the body,

poor running and the two body halves would not fit together properly. I have had enough and requested a refund. I do not have the time or patience to sort out Heljan's erratic quality issues.

 

I can understand how your feel. I have a Heljan Class 35 Hymek which runs erratically despite clean wheels, pick ups, track, etc. In fact I've passed by the recent releases from Heljan as I don't think the quality, smooth mechanism or detail is there. I find the best manufacturer for smooth running to be Bachmann.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you re-wheel it yet?

The older Heljan's with the strange wheels were always totally erratic - "non conductive mud magnets" - but since the wheels were changed - no problems, a real delight to own and operate - smoothe as could possibly be... (This reminds me that I still have Eastleigh to do... )

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

I bought one of these railbuses at the weekend. Superb looking model but trying to remove the horns wasnt very easy as had to use quite a bit of force to get them out, damamging one horn (a bit of glue on it will hopefully stop it falling off). The handrails launched themselves off the body when trying to prize the bady halves apart but luckily they got stcuk on me. The 21 pin TCS decoder fitteded ineasily but it took some doing to get the body back together again and the handrails back in their respective holes.

 

It runs very smoothly on DCC with this tCS decoder fitted.

 

Ian

Link to post
Share on other sites

I tried fitting a Bachmann 21pin decoder last night and had the same problem a lot of you have had with the handrails. Yes there was as others have found a loose unconnected red wire when I opened it up. Programmed the decoder but only internal lights work but ran fine with SPROG. Tried a 21pin to 8pin adaptor with a TCS decoder and same problem. Put it on the layout with my Lenz LH90 and it runs fine but the head lights only come on when I turn the controller up to speed(as per DC) . Any views - is it the functions on the decoder. On DC it works as expected with lights. Am mystified now so it looks as if it will be heading back to Liverpool which is a shame because it seems to be s good runner.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hattons arranged for Heljan in Denmark to contact me directly. I sent them a photo of my railbus clearly showing the offending red wire and they agreed that it should indeed be connected to the interior lighting PCB. They propose to send me a replacement interior lighting set (two LED PCBs with wiring loom) so that I can swap out the old one myself.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have included an image of my railbus without its lid on so youcan see the offending loose wire. The blue circle on the photo covers both the loose red wire and the lighting PCB it is supposed to connect to. This should be familiar to a few of you i see!

 

post-12570-0-45499700-1331645486_thumb.jpg

 

Heljan are proposing to replace the whole interior lighting set; both LED PCBs, wiring lom and plug, so that I don't have to get the soldering iron out.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...