Waggon und Maschinenbau railbus

[Bilbo]

Sent mine back to Liverpool after an email from the lovely Alexandra. I am still mystified by the fact that under DC operation the lights work with that wire loose. Will await replacement and then face the task of opening it up again to fit the decoder. Those handrails really are a nightmare and I don't understand why the body is made that way(split in 2) if it was one piece like most DMU bodies then the handrail issue wouldn't be a problem. On the other hand a plug and play socket underneath the chassis would solve all our problems.

[Baby Deltic]

I took a few shots of the Waggonbasher on the layout tonight:

 

 

 

[Deltic]

Lovely piccys BD - even with it running on the London Overground....

[stewartingram]

No collector shoes fitted yet?

 

Stewart

[Baby Deltic]

No collector shoes fitted yet?

 

Stewart

 

Don't go giving me ideas!

[stewartingram]

Don't go giving me ideas!

 

Would look silly with a pantograph though.

 

Stewart

[Gdaysydney]

This is one model that should come with a DCC fiited option.

 

Mine arrived without any paperwork in the box. Thanks to a link on this forum I was able to work out how to remove the body to get to the blanking plug.

 

The model worked fine in DC but I noticed that the thin plastivc keeper strap that was meant to hold the decoder panel in place was not fitted.

 

Despite being extra careful a small red wire suddenly came loose - although this appears to have only affected the internal lighting.

 

I now have to hunt for the small horns that fell out while trying to remove the horn "stoppers"" that hid the fitting screws and refit the handrails.

 

This one gets my vote for the trickiest new model to fit decoder into.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Gdaysydney

[JZ]

I too have a loose red wire, yet the lighting works on both DCC and DC, so I left it. I feel that splitting the body below the windowline was a good idea as it avoids more bulky glazing pieces. As for putting a socket underneath for a decoder, where then would the motor go ? OK, getting to the decoder was awkward to say the least, but I have had equally convoluted fittings in some Bachmann steam loco's.

[Kenton]

As for putting a socket underneath for a decoder, where then would the motor go ?

 

Above the decoder?

 

Are decoders really so big that space cannot be found somewhere within the floor space of such a large body?

 

It is sheer laziness on behalf of all the manufacturers in not putting such issues of easy access to the front of their designs and just leaving it as an afterthought. The same applies to the dis-assembly. Let's face it they really do not want the likes of you or I opening them up or retro-fitting or "modification" of any kind. They simply want you the buyer of their exquisite toys to plonk them on the track and race them round in circles - preferably on full power.

[47137]

Here is a photo of the motor and flywheels inside my railbus after cleaning. I stripped the model this far because the running was so lumpy. I found a blob of white grease in the gap between one flywheel and the chassis casting, while the end bearings on the motor axle were bone dry.

 

 

The model seems to have been designed as a sealed unit, to be thrown away when it goes wrong with no regard for future serviceability. The mechanical design is inconsistent: vulnerable parts which need strength for longevity, like axle guards, are plastic mouldings held by tiny plastic dowels, while the buffers, which will never do anything, are metal and sprung. The model seems to have been built to have the power to haul a train, when what was needed was something which was fun to own, use and maintain.

 

I will need to get professional help to get this model back together again and I suggest that if anyone has another model that runs badly, return it for repair or exchange without touching it further. These models are, after all, supposed to be 'ready to run'.

[Kenton]

vulnerable parts which need strength for longevity, like axle guards, are plastic mouldings held by tiny plastic dowels, while the buffers, which will never do anything, are metal and sprung.

In the hands of a child the buffers of most model seem to be the first to be snapped off. They are external and the part that generally come into contact with other objects.

The model seems to have been built to have the power to haul a train

Which is what I expect many will want to do - and then complain it will not couple up with anything.

 

But I can't agree more than with the last statement. If it doesn't run - return it

Do not tinker with it or you may find your guarantee invalidated.

[brian daniels]

Just been discussing this with Howes and thought it was worth mentioning!

 

 

W&M railbus internal wiring

It appears that there is a 'loose' red wire inside these railbuses that some people think has something to do with the internal lights. This is not the case - it should have been removed during assembly but has not been on some models and in no way affects the operation of the model or its lights.

[Bilbo]

That was my suspicion because the lights worked ok on DC and on both of the ones I have had there was a loose red wire . Am awaiting a TCS decoder to see if my replacement is any better than the first.

[TimP]

Had the loose red wire, had problems with internal lighting, had the handrails fly off, found it impossible to get body apart without slight damage to doors, loved the model but wasnt going to mess around with another one til they sort it out - went back for a refund - and was told I wasnt the only one.

 

I do think ability to take apart and put back together without damage for a DCC model should be a basic requirement and I wish the mag reviewers would give the manufacturers a tougher time on it.

[47137]

I do think ability to take apart and put back together without damage for a DCC model should be a basic requirement and I wish the mag reviewers would give the manufacturers a tougher time on it.

 

Agree entirely - and, I suggest, the ability to take apart and put back together without damage is a requirement for every scale model (meaning something more than a toy) containing mechanical assemblies like motors and gear trains which will need servicing long after the guarantee has expired.

 

Such a model should consist of a 'body', being pretty but fragile, and an 'innards' being robust but ugly. By all means make the body shell in as many pieces as needed to suit the injection-moulding machine - but please make it a complete sub-assembly. The sandwich-style mechanical design of the railbus is unsuitable for a serious model; and it would take little effort to design the model so the complete chassis able to be dropped out of the bottom of a complete body. When I get my chassis back together I will look for a way to do this for a one-off (possibly discarding the below-roof casting and most of the wiring), so I can get at the inside from time to time. If the model had a smaller, perhaps N-gauge size motor, there would be room to provide a chamber with an external access cover below the chassis for a DCC chip too. But reviewers tell you nothing of fundamental design failures, being content to write about the screw couplings and hoses and flush glazing evident from a simple inspection. [/rant]

[Matabiau]

Following the various posts on the subject I have installed a DCC chip to my railbus and can confirm that the little red wire is completely redundant. I snipped the end off to avoid any potential short circuit on the chassis and the railbus worked fine.

Concerning re-assembly, I was fortunatel enough that the handrails didn't fly off upon opening, dissappearing into the clutches of the carpet monster as others have experienced. However, that made it no easier to get back together! COnnecting the wire handles across two separate body parts is a recipe for problems. As others have found the top and bottom half of the railbus don't quite marry so the wire handle can need some stretching to get it in place. This was most frustrating and resulted in scrathes to the body work around the handle holes. To add to that my neighbours discovered some of the more colourful aspects of the English language.

[Matabiau]

A short update:

I have received today from Heljan a replacement interior lighting unit. That comprises the two LED modules, the wiring loom and the plug to attach it to the DCC socket module. It is exactly the same as the one in my railbus only with the red wire cut short at the plug. Evidently this red wire has no use and should have been removed at the factory.

[Bilbo]

Well my replacement arrived from Liverpool. Found that it is quite easy to just pull out(very gently) the bottom of the handrail from the body and leave the top of the handrail still in its hole in the top half of the body.They then swivel to one side. When I took the top off the obligatory loose red wire was there ( why wasn't it sorted at manufacture).I tried the Bachmann decoder again and I had the same problem as before. The internal lights work but the headlights did not. When on the layout as I turned up the power these headlighrts came on - is that because the typical Heljan current draw is high and there wasn't enough power to run these lights ?.Anyway I ordered a TCS 6 function decoder from Bromsgrove Models(brilliant service) and inserted it . Internal lights worked fine on one function and the headlights worked fine and independently on another function.So that solves that problem and in all honesty my first model was probably ok but I hadn't though of a different decoder then.Hope this helps someone.

[CWJ]

I ran my two railbuses (one is E79964 with the 'large yellow panel', the other E79962 with speed whiskers) and noticed some interesting results which others may find of use:

• No. 62 ran considerably slower than 64, even after a good ten minutes of running-in. I stopped after that, fearing that the motor may burn out if, as others have found, the flywheels were restricted by excessive grease. Upon inspection, both railbuses had grease smeared all over the flywheel and bearings - when removed they ran much more freely and at the speed you would expect.
  
• Both railbuses suffered from a slight rhythmic 'lurching' action, as if one of the gear wheels was slightly out-of-true. I removed the final drive gears from one axle, and then from the other axle, giving the railbus a test run each time. Each railbus had one axle which was causing the lurching action and one axle running smoothly. I simply removed the final drive gears from the dodgy axle as the vehicle performs fine with one powered axle (this may not apply if you have gradients or very tight curves!).
  
• No. 62 had a brass gear wheel meshing with the gear on the axle, whereas on No. 64 this component was plastic. I didn't notice any difference in performance or noise levels.
  
• No. 62 had a plastic restraining piece to hold the PCB in position within the roof, but No.64's PCB was floating loose (although held in about the right position by other components).
  

On most fronts this model scores very highly in my opinion - it looks spot-on, performs well (after the above clean-up) and has a lot of features for its size. Being fair to Heljan it must have been a real challenge to design. However, on 'maintainability' it scores very poorly indeed. They seem to have used 100 components where 10 would do - each LED has its own circuit board even though some of them are right next to the main PCB - all connected by fragile wiring looms. To access the moving parts, where most maintenance is necessary, the model must be completely stripped down (and, boy, is that fiddly!) - I can't think of another model locomotive like this. Add to this the fragile nature of many of the details and you have a model which is virtually impossible not to damage when undertaking even the most basic maintenance (e.g. lubrication or decoder-fitting). From my two models I managed to break off an air reservoir, an axle guard moulding, two sandpipes, a couple of brake hoses, and don't get me started on those handrails!

 

My advice - only buy this model from a shop who can test-run it for you before you buy, and make sure you don't have to whack the controller up to full power to get it to move: the motor will be struggling against all that grease. If you've already got one, return it for professional servicing by the manufacturer.

 

Cheers,

 

Will

 

Oh, and the destination blinds have weird places where it should say 'Keighley' and 'Oxenhope'

[Kenton]

If you've already got one, return it for professional servicing by the manufacturer.

 

 

Certainly not! Mine is still running perfectly well and I have no intention of rummaging around inside it just to break it.

 

besides if I return it I may get back one that has been customer damaged. I can't be the only lucky one.

[CWJ]

Sorry, I meant to say "if you've already got one and it isn't running properly, return it for professional servicing". By attempting a home repair without damaging the model (and in most cases it would be just that - an attempt!) you may reduce the chances of your model shop exchanging your model or giving you a refund.

 

I hate to talk like this about a model which, in my view, is 90% perfect; but it really is a nightmare to get into! I'm glad that yours runs well, Kenton, and I hope that those of us who've had trouble are in a minority.

 

Cheers,

 

Will

[Kenton]

I hate to talk like this about a model which, in my view, is 90% perfect; but it really is a nightmare to get into!  I'm glad that yours runs well, Kenton, and I hope that those of us who've had trouble are in a minority.

 

Yes, I always wonder what the reality is when we get faults reported like this. Not questioning for one moment that you and some others have had issues with this model, but what proportion of the total supplied - I wonder?

 

There is also the valid question of what exactly is a fault?

 

The difficulty of opening this model up and even the excess grease issue, I don't think are faults - the first one should only be encountered by those customers who should know what they are doing (it is more a design issue) and the second probably may only show up in time (may even be present on mine). The loose wire seems to be irrelevant and doing no harm.

 

I guess it is inevitable on a forum like this that problems get magnified, and perhaps there is no real harm in that, but in terms of the number of units sold, I just wonder if it is always read with balance. We are also of course a selective group of modellers who probably are more likely to pull a model apart and feel comfortable with reassembly.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... I wish the mag reviewers would give the manufacturers a tougher time on it.

They won't. Which is why I am a mag free zone and use this far superior 'by the customer' magazine instead to both write and read the real dope. It is pretty easy to gauge the reliability / serviceability of any given model from what is reported. If there's a deafening silence there's no real trouble at all, if there are onesy-twosey reports of various problems trickling in, then its got weaknesses (though possibly is only really vulnerable to Johnny nine thumbs); if there is a rapid series of very similar reports soon after release from folks who know something about mechanics then there are real problems. Hopefully, the RTR manufacturers will in time realise that they can follow thread volumes as a coarse indicator of the trouble quotient on any release, as advance warning of what dealer returns and their service shop reports will show.

[47137]

There is also the valid question of what exactly is a fault?

 

I suggest there are three categories of faults:

1. Manufacturing problems, like grease jammed against a flywheel;

2. Design errors, like a model which cannot be taken apart and reassembled;

3. Faults occurring during fair use, like worn-out motor brushes;

4. Damage by the owner.

 

Item 1 might be dealt with by a straight swap with the supplier after purchase. The others become irrelevant if the model is a throw-away item to be disposed of at the first hint of trouble.

 

All impact on the useability of the model and the pleasure (or otherwise) of ownership.

An unconnected red wire is sloppy but is not a fault, because it has no bearing on the useability of the model.

 

I have my railbus back. It runs beautifully, but the scars left around the doors from re-assembly will need extremely careful work with a scalpel and selective weathering to hide. I do not relish lubricating the motor spindle end bearings, let alone changing the motor brushes ... I guess I will try to enjoy it until it fails.

[Kenton]

The trouble is I see the grease issue as not a fault. If you never opened it up and it ran acceptably/well you wouldn't even know about it - mine may well be in this class. Though true if it failed to run and you sent it back (without opening it) then the manufacturer's investigation would reveal it as a fault.

Also the fact that it cannot be easily taken apart is only an issue if you are a professional repairer / chip installer. It is not that it cannot be done, just that it could have been designed better - but then you would have every kid on the block pulling it apart.

 

Damage by the owner - well if you drop it on the floor or pull the wheels off the manufacturer cannot take the blame.

 

I guess I will try to enjoy it until it fails

 

and that I think is the best we should expect, from what to me, is still a nice toy.

 

I'd still love to know just how many have actually failed, rather failed on investigation.