Wheatley Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Thank you, I'm aware how market pricing works and how much it costs to tool up a new model, I don't need a load of condescending replies from fanboys. I was merely curious given that the Warwell is twice the size and a fiver cheaper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Precisely. If you don't consider said model value for money, or justifiable at the price then as with anything in life the answer is simple... go without! My thoughts exactly. I tend not to bother looking at new relases a lot of the time now and focus my efforts more towards kits and the like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted October 16, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2016 Thank you, I'm aware how market pricing works and how much it costs to tool up a new model, I don't need a load of condescending replies from fanboys. I was merely curious given that the Warwell is twice the size and a fiver cheaper. Warwell is only slightly longer but I suspect there will a lot more separate part tooling options on the ploughs with the variations listed as they do the 40 & 45 versions. I'd guess they need a higher price to cover the extra tools and we don't know the numbers being done vs the warwell as you can justify a train of them but only a couple of these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 A warwell wagon is going to sell a lot more than a snow plough logic would suggest, as one has a potential to be marketable outside of model railways, the other doesn't really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) Wheatley, on 16 Oct 2016 - 03:20, said:Wheatley, on 16 Oct 2016 - 03:20, said: Thank you, I'm aware how market pricing works and how much it costs to tool up a new model, I don't need a load of condescending replies from fanboys. I was merely curious given that the Warwell is twice the size and a fiver cheaper. Well the snowplough is likely a solid block of material, whereas the warwell is essentially long and thin. It's not clear whether the snowplough is cosmetic or designed to actually work like the real thing pushing snow out of the way on a garden railway but any pushed vehicle needs some weight to stop it bouncing off and this is also likely to factor in. Let's also remember that this model is 12-18 months away and the price of £43 likely reflects this, for all we know a 12 ton box van could cost almost that post-Brexit. On your logic of "it's smaller so it should be cheaper" how does that explain the cost of N gauge? It's not always the size of the models (on that logic a mk 1 coach would cost about £100) but you have to take in the detail, loose parts that may need attaching before delivery, and of course the market size. The cost of an item being £x divided by their guestimation of market size plus a profit margin equals model cost. If you do want one, you have 12 months to save up for it. That's about two fancy coffees a month or a couple of newspapers a week. Not impossible to most people. But if you'd rather choose coffee or a newspaper that is your choice. I am hardly a 'fanboy' of Hattons, Bachmann, Hornby or any other manufacturer or shop and post endless positive (but pointless) drivel about a model neither am I a rivet counter who complains about every minor detail that they perceive to be inaccurate. However like many here I am a Hattons customer, although I do shop at my local model shop when I can. Out of interest, what do you think the price of the model should be? Edited October 16, 2016 by cromptonnut Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungrange Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Out of interest, what do you think the price of the model should be? Well, you could always have the Britannia Pacific model of the same plough - £50. Against that, £43 isn't that bad, especially when factoring inflation into the equation. Of course the Britannia Pacific model may not be available much longer and it was always a custom produced model. http://www.britanniapacific.co.uk/snowploughs.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I asked a question and made an observation. I have my answers (or at least theories), thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Wheatley, on 16 Oct 2016 - 11:21, said:I have my answers (or at least theories) I'm sure we'd all love to hear them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 The ones in yours, Kelly's and Paul's posts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
86902 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 A timely post there reminding me that I need one for each end so I've just added an NSE one to my order. I'm with Kelly in really wanting the 'snow train' (http://www.departmentals.com/news/19) but it's unlikely to happen. In the meantime I've converted an old Lima Siphon I had no use for, by mounting a PC fan on one end and adding a DCC chip to be able to control the fan and the lighting effects so I have my own "rotary snow blower" (yes I've painted it bright yellow!). All I need now is snow, and a garden railway to run it on (I'm thinking ahead, you see...) Like this you mean 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Nice Where are the bits from? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
86902 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Test builds at the minute mate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted October 16, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2016 Well, you could always have the Britannia Pacific model of the same plough - £50. Against that, £43 isn't that bad, especially when factoring inflation into the equation. Of course the Britannia Pacific model may not be available much longer and it was always a custom produced model. http://www.britanniapacific.co.uk/snowploughs.htm Custom produced as and when. I have an order in for them dated October 2015. They're £50 for two, but that doesn't include wheels, paint, decals, the time to assemble them etc.etc So £86 for a pair is relatively good value. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Thank you, I'm aware how market pricing works and how much it costs to tool up a new model, I don't need a load of condescending replies from fanboys. I was merely curious given that the Warwell is twice the size and a fiver cheaper. I guess it's only condescending if you choose to read it that way? That certainly wasn't the intention, instead I was merely stating a fact. So apologies if you read it that way. However, what I do fail to understand is how often people manage to conclude that simply because a model is half the length it should therefore be half the price? I could understand if we were talking about sacks of potatoes, or anything else sold by weight/volume, but we aren't. Maybe the snowplough carries far more detail, or will comprise many more individual parts? With all due respect, for someone who supposedly "knows how much it costs to tool up a new model" I would have thought these were obvious factors? Anyhow, this "fanboy" will politely leave you to it. cheers Edited October 17, 2016 by YesTor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted October 17, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 17, 2016 Or simply that Hattons expect to sell far fewer snowploughs than warwells therefore the tooling cost is split across far fewer models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Or simply that Hattons expect to sell far fewer snowploughs than warwells therefore the tooling cost is split across far fewer models. That's my guess. Most people will take a pair of ploughs and that's it whereas warwells might take 10-20 or more for a full length train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Question, did they always run in the exact same (fixed) pairs as follows: Beilhack snow plough (ex Class 40) ZZA ADB965576 in BR yellowBeilhack snow plough (ex Class 40) ZZA ADB965577 in BR yellow Beilhack snow plough (ex Class 40) ZZA ADB965578 in BR yellowBeilhack snow plough (ex Class 40) ZZA ADB965579 in BR yellow Beilhack snow plough (ex Class 45) ZZA ADB966098 in BR yellow with NSE BrandingBeilhack snow plough (ex Class 45) ZZA ADB966099 in BR yellow with NSE Branding Or did members of each pair mix and match from time to time? I'm tempted to go for one NSE (ex 45) with plain BR (ex40), but if it never happened then it will be a pair of NSE's . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 On the basis of rule 1, I've ordered an NSE one and a Stratford "shark" one. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hattons Dave Posted October 17, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 17, 2016 Hi all,Thanks for the feedback so far!Regarding 'pairs' - we aren't 100% certain but we're confident that pairs were 'set' until at least Network Rail days, especially for the Stratford and 'Scottish' examples. We're in the process of adding artwork images to the listings (take a look at www.hattons.co.uk/beilhack ) which should assist with choosing pairs, especially as most have embellishments that betray their depot....Cheers,Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 The NSE versions being offered were at Ashford from new and became very faded by the end. 78 & 79 were at Stratford fading as the others before going Railtrack black. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Maybe my memory getting grey. But I think I remember seeing the TVS news in the great winter of 1987 which showed footage of a class 33 with a pair of snowploughs snowed in. I cannot find anything on the net, although I did find this site showing a class 33 snowed in (and some vague shape in front of it - which might be a plough or not). http://mpafirsteleven.blogspot.fr/2010/01/bit-more-snow.html Does anyone else have such a memory? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Just found this video of 33061 stuck in a snow drift near with a pair of ploughs being rescued by a class 47 and a special plough from Scotland. I cannot tell what snow ploughs the class 33 was coupled too but it does not look like Hattons ones. (be nice if they are). 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Great video, I think it's the one that the still in the previous post refers to. I think those are the old steam tender mounted conversions rather than the Beilhack type. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Excellent film of the Lenham lost train, it was the Schools tender version of snow plough. When the new ploughs were built for a long time the Schools versions stayed too. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyboy Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Is this Hattons way of telling us that it's going to be a bad winter? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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