50t Warwell Wagon in OO Gauge

[TRAILRAGE]

Continuing....

 

The other companies/regions purchased and converted more of these warwell.

 

The SR had DS3146 - 3151, retaining the original appearance as boiler carriers. http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/warwell/ed42ff04 is in good BR olive green in 1980.

 

The LNER had, I believe E314141 - 167 & 314168 - 178. The first were allocated diag 212 which I havent seen but appear to have been Bogie bolster Bs with 6 bolsters similar to the LMS ones [Tatlow book 4B is incorrect apparently mixing the diagram number and stock number] Again plenty of examples including KDE314159 http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/warwell/e9b34313 in 1984 and there are other photos of it in 1986. The second batch may have been without bolsters the only one I have a photograph of doesn't have any http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/warwell/ef347f8a

 

The GWR had two lots, 32884 - 32904 of lot 1645 Dec 1948. These appear to have been a similar Bogie Bolster B conversion and BR GWR diag J33. 32886 was in original condition being used for electrification of the BedPan line in 1979, http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/warwell/e1e9d486f and converted to carry a cement mixer in 1980  http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/warwell/e3d42021 although by 1983 this one didn't have bolsters - but the deck looks they have been removed http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/warwell/ed13960c. They also had lot 1655 of July 1949 33900/2/3 but I don't know what their appearance or use was; I am suspicious like the other companies they may have been without bolsters and used for boiler carrying or similar.

 

Finally another 40 appear in the BR records as Bogie Bolster B as lot 3415 Swindon 1961 as W160800 - 839 This was at the same time as many more Warflats appear in the BR fleets (Used for coil conversions etc, but another story when Bachmann finally produce their model). Example photos include http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/warwell/e8d5c214b from 1982 This is similar to the other Bogie bolsters but another is like the LMS diagram 11D with a flat deck and bolsters http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/warwell/e21c25ee

 

DW160819 YNO Bogie Bolster B Hattons H4-WW-010 © Paul Bartlett 1 .JPG

 

DW160819 YNO Bogie Bolster B Hattons H4-WW-010 © Paul Bartlett 2 .JPG

 

DW160819 YNO Bogie Bolster B Hattons H4-WW-010 © Paul Bartlett 3.jpg

 

DW160819 YNO Bogie Bolster B Hattons H4-WW-010 © Paul Bartlett 4.JPG

 

DW160819 YNO Bogie Bolster B Hattons H4-WW-010 © Paul Bartlett 5.JPG

 

DW160819 YNO Bogie Bolster B Hattons H4-WW-010 © Paul Bartlett 6.jpg

 

Of course these wagons gave a lot of more specialist conversions, and the MOD retained some on original bogies in internal use into the 1990s, and possibly later http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/warwell/e32767220

 

 

Finally as we have discussed the MOD retained a good fleet of these wagons and added new bogies, air brake and sometimes other features. The earliest I saw such a conversion was spring 1977 http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/warwell/e8d555a38

 

So the number series of the conversions is only findable from the spotters books which give diagram numbers for individual wagons.

 

MODA95534 KWA Hattons H4-WW-018 © Paul Bartlett 1.JPG

 

MODA95534 KWA Hattons H4-WW-018 © Paul Bartlett 2.JPG

 

MODA95534 KWA Hattons H4-WW-018 © Paul Bartlett 3.JPG

 

MODA95534 KWA Hattons H4-WW-018 © Paul Bartlett 4.JPG

 

MODA95534 KWA Hattons H4-WW-018 © Paul Bartlett 5.JPG

 

MODA95534 KWA Hattons H4-WW-018 © Paul Bartlett 6.JPG

 

 

NOTE I have not added any of the extras provided with these models - vacuum pipes. air pipes, non working screw couplings.

 

Paul

There really is some nice detailing on these wagons and I really hope I'm wrong as I would love a couple of these, but I'm still not convinced the bogies are wide enough. Compared to this photo on Brian Daniels FLickr site to the last photo above of MODA95534  shows what I mean. 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5854224037/in/album-72157627008284776/

 

Cheers Trailrage

[KDG]

There really is some nice detailing on these wagons and I really hope I'm wrong as I would love a couple of these, but I'm still not convinced the bogies are wide enough. Compared to this photo on Brian Daniels FLickr site to the last photo above of MODA95534 shows what I mean.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5854224037/in/album-72157627008284776/

 

Cheers Trailrage

Hi Trailrage

 

They're not wide enough. I mentioned this when I reviewed my purchase of one of the MOD versions upthread. Simon Bendall agreed when he reviewed for Rail Express Modeller too. If I remember correctly he mentioned that the bogies may have been designed to take continental model wheelsets i.e. HO scale axles. He has since modified some bogies by splitting them and widening them.

 

I did consider returning mine to Hattons, but despite this and other issues I like them too much so have kept them and will do some modelling to enhance them

 

Edited for predictive text FUBAR

Edited December 2, 2017 by KDG

[cal.n]

https://www.bidspotter.co.uk/en-gb/auction-catalogues/ramco/catalogue-id-ramco-10081/lot-b3a22124-8b4c-4043-8a00-a83800c83d89

 

or 22 of them from Hattons?

[TRAILRAGE]

Hi Trailrage

 

They're not wide enough. I mentioned this when I reviewed my purchase of one of the MOD versions upthread. Simon Bendall agreed when he reviewed for Rail Express Modeller too. If I remember correctly he mentioned that the bogies may have been designed to take continental model wheelsets i.e. HO scale axles. He has since modified some bogies by splitting them and widening them.

 

I did consider returning mine to Hattons, but despite this and other issues I like them too much so have kept them and will do some modelling to enhance them

 

Edited for predictive text FUBAR

KDG thanks for confirming that. I did remember reading it somewhere that 25mm axles were used which seems a shame really as they really do look gorgeous. I Just don't like how the body overhangs the bogies so. much. Might just have to wait until the Oxford Rail Air Braked version comes and compare, but I think its going to be difficult to pick a winner here though.

 

Cheers Trailrage 

[KDG]

KDG thanks for confirming that. I did remember reading it somewhere that 25mm axles were used which seems a shame really as they really do look gorgeous. I Just don't like how the body overhangs the bogies so. much. Might just have to wait until the Oxford Rail Air Braked version comes and compare, but I think its going to be difficult to pick a winner here though.

 

Cheers Trailrage

 

Hi Trailrage

 

I too am looking forward to seeing the Oxford air braked refurbed version. The close coupling mechanism on the Oxford version in addition to the price just might swing it if the bogies are correct as well. We'll have to see if Oxford replicate the widened decks.

[26power]

Three images here at Hove Station, Summer 1965, might be of interest:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/31890193@N08/sets/72157658589897600

 

I think 16 vehicles in third image?

[26power]

Eastleigh Works, 9 Aug 1961.  Partial view of some sort of conversion:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/31890193@N08/10513925516/in/album-72157627487861672/

[TRAILRAGE]

Got a couple of these from the Wifey as an Anivesary present. Not really sure how I feel about them really.

 

They would probably look better if the bogies were wider I think it would give them a bit more presence. Also they look a bit short in length and height as I seem to remember them being chunkier having the same length wheelbase as the Y25 bogies. Although  there does appear to be several versions of the GPS series of bogies so I could well be wrong.

 

The finish on the 90's version is  pretty good if a little shiny but a I wanted a 70's AB version the only ones left were the weathered examples.  To be honest I wish I had gone for another 90's one. The weathering as the wifey put it "looks like a 2 year old has done it with a plastic paintbrush"!  Disappointed and although its clear its meant to be track marks, I'm not sure I can ever remember seeing them looking like this.  The side is just brown and needs some serious cleaning up to improve its look. 

 

Coupling wise junked the originals and fitted some Bachmann mini MK2 couplings on the outer ends and Kaydee 17 inner end. these work fine through Peco Code 75 Large Radius points and 3-4 ft curves but will try a mix of short and long if I can find some. 

 

All in all mixed bag really as the photos make it look better than it is in the flesh so to speak but I'm really hoping they will grow on me  so I can enjoy them for what they are.

 

Apologies forr any spelling mistakes I blame the painkillers.    

[cctransuk]

Eastleigh Works, 9 Aug 1961.  Partial view of some sort of conversion:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/31890193@N08/10513925516/in/album-72157627487861672/

 

Internal use locomotive boiler carrier - the raised bolster is there to support the smokebox end.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Wild Boar Fell]

Got a couple of these from the Wifey as an Anivesary present. Not really sure how I feel about them really.

 

They would probably look better if the bogies were wider I think it would give them a bit more presence. Also they look a bit short in length and height as I seem to remember them being chunkier having the same length wheelbase as the Y25 bogies. Although there does appear to be several versions of the GPS series of bogies so I could well be wrong.

 

The finish on the 90's version is pretty good if a little shiny but a I wanted a 70's AB version the only ones left were the weathered examples. To be honest I wish I had gone for another 90's one. The weathering as the wifey put it "looks like a 2 year old has done it with a plastic paintbrush"! Disappointed and although its clear its meant to be track marks, I'm not sure I can ever remember seeing them looking like this. The side is just brown and needs some serious cleaning up to improve its look.

 

Coupling wise junked the originals and fitted some Bachmann mini MK2 couplings on the outer ends and Kaydee 17 inner end. these work fine through Peco Code 75 Large Radius points and 3-4 ft curves but will try a mix of short and long if I can find some.

 

All in all mixed bag really as the photos make it look better than it is in the flesh so to speak but I'm really hoping they will grow on me so I can enjoy them for what they are.

 

Apologies forr any spelling mistakes I blame the painkillers.

The Warwells (and Warflats) utilise the GP22.5 bogies so slightly shorter wheelbase than the GPS/GP25s

[TRAILRAGE]

Wild Boar Fell 

 

AH Ok. 

Thank you for that I did wonder if that was the case but for some reason I was convinced they were the larger GPS/GP25s.  

I measured mine up against the Pewter examples supplied with the Genesis KFA Warflat kit as that was all I had to hand.

 

Cheers Trailrage

Edited June 4, 2018 by TRAILRAGE

[TRAILRAGE]

Came across an interesting picture today in a book called Freight Trains of British Rail by Michael Rhodes (SBN 86093012903 Published by OPC in 1982).

 

Plate 92 shows 31283 unrefurbished  but with sealed doors on a class 9 freight. The first wagon looks like a Ramp Wagon and the next 2 Warwells. Its difficult to tell as its a slightly dark going away shot but it looks like the Warwells have diamond bogies and as there are no Handbrake wheels attached to them thus making them Vacum fitted. Also interesting is that all 3 wagons have what look like Tank tracks laid along its length (Ramp Wagon) and on the upper flat section only on the Warwells. Was this common as I don't remember seeing that before.

 

Unfortunately it doesn't give a date for the photo which is a shame as this raises a couple of questions for me. 

 

As most of the Photos are taken after Tops came in and appear to stop around 81.

 

1. Was it common to see Ramp wagons in train formations as I though't they were kept at key locations? 

2. Were the Ramp wagons Vacum fitted only or dual braked?

3. When did the Ramp wagons stop being used?

4. At what point were the Vacum fitted Warwells taken out of Mainline running in favour of the Refurbished Warwells? 

5. Were they concentrated in a specific area to keep Maintenance simple?

 

Ok so that's 5 questions but I thought they were worth asking as I am now considering buying some of the Hattons Vac fitted Warwells and maybe a Gensis or WIld Boar  Ramp wagon to go with them.

 

 Hoping for any Info

 

Cheers Trailrage 

[Fat Controller]

Came across an interesting picture today in a book called Freight Trains of British Rail by Michael Rhodes (SBN 86093012903 Published by OPC in 1982).

 

Plate 92 shows 31283 unrefurbished  but with sealed doors on a class 9 freight. The first wagon looks like a Ramp Wagon and the next 2 Warwells. Its difficult to tell as its a slightly dark going away shot but it looks like the Warwells have diamond bogies and as there are no Handbrake wheels attached to them thus making them Vacum fitted. Also interesting is that all 3 wagons have what look like Tank tracks laid along its length (Ramp Wagon) and on the upper flat section only on the Warwells. Was this common as I don't remember seeing that before.

 

Unfortunately it doesn't give a date for the photo which is a shame as this raises a couple of questions for me. 

 

As most of the Photos are taken after Tops came in and appear to stop around 81.

 

1. Was it common to see Ramp wagons in train formations as I though't they were kept at key locations? 

2. Were the Ramp wagons Vacum fitted only or dual braked?

3. When did the Ramp wagons stop being used?

4. At what point were the Vacum fitted Warwells taken out of Mainline running in favour of the Refurbished Warwells? 

5. Were they concentrated in a specific area to keep Maintenance simple?

 

Ok so that's 5 questions but I thought they were worth asking as I am now considering buying some of the Hattons Vac fitted Warwells and maybe a Gensis or WIld Boar  Ramp wagon to go with them.

 

 Hoping for any Info

 

Cheers Trailrage 

 1 The idea was that they would be attached to trains when they were being sent to locations without fixed facilities. Thus a train to Redmire wouldn't need one, but one to Haverfordwest would.

2 I think they were through-piped for air and vacuum

3 An example was to be found at Haverfordwest until recently, having been sent down about ten or so years ago. Looking at Google Earth, it might still be there.

4 The last time I saw a vac-fitted Warwell in main-line use would have been at Thirsk in 1982. The rebuilt wagons had air brakes and vac pipes, so could work with the older wagons. Indeed the short rake I saw at Thirsk had examples of both.

5 I don't think so, though in later years the air-braked example were to be found more widely distributed, because they could travel on Speedlink services.

[hmrspaul]

The ramps had ample pipes http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/modaramp/e379f1d71  http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/modaramp/e2fad8f1f

 

This was at the full loads depot Newcastle in summer 1985 http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/modaramp/e3f4dce32

 

Paul

[Fat Controller]

The ramps had ample pipes http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/modaramp/e379f1d71  http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/modaramp/e2fad8f1f

 

This was at the full loads depot Newcastle in summer 1985 http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/modaramp/e3f4dce32

 

Paul

All the pipes seem to have white connections at one or both ends, suggesting 'piped' not 'fitted'.

Edited July 3, 2018 by Fat Controller

[hmrspaul]

All the pipes seem to have white connections at one or both ends, suggesting 'piped' not 'fitted'.

I clearly said pipes!

 

Paul

[Fat Controller]

I clearly said pipes!

 

Paul

Sorry; I meant that the white pipe connections indicated a vehicle that didn't have any form of air or vacuum braking, just through pipes.

[hmrspaul]

Sorry; I meant that the white pipe connections indicated a vehicle that didn't have any form of air or vacuum braking, just through pipes.

This is silly it is why I said pipes and not brakes. We have discussed the ramp wagons before and I have ample detail photos available on my site to show both how late they survived and their construction with only handwheel operated brake and through pipes.

 

Paul

[TRAILRAGE]

Fat Controller

 

Many thanks for the info.  I had no idea the ramp wagons were used so late. I also hadn't realised that the Vacum Fitted Warwells lasted into the 80's either so great stuff. I knew that the refurbished Warwells were originally fitted with Vac pipes and weirdly saw some surprisingly still fitted in the early 2000's when MOD Trains were regularly seen going through Reading West on their way to DIdcot and Bicester.

 

hmrspaul. Apologies I had completely forgotten you had some lovely pics of the Ramp wagons on your invaluable site! Naughty Trailrage! Many thanks for the Reminder

 

Thank you for taking time to respond to my Questions its much appreciated.

 

Trailrage

[Hattons Dave]

Hi all,

It's been just over 12 months since our OO Gauge Warwells were released and we've been grateful ever since for the response to our first ever project developed entirely by ourselves, including receiving several awards for OO gauge wagon of the year and seeing everyone's comments and excellent photos in this thread too.

 

With several versions now sold out entirely and demand for this model still very high, we're pleased to reveal that we have produced four new variants of the Warwell, with some of the most popular liveries returning once more with new running numbers. These are on the way to us now and will arrive into stock on Monday 3rd September 2018. The new wagons are available at £33 each, the same price as the original release.

 

The new variants are below and can be pre-ordered now!

 

 

H4-WW-001A - Warwell wagon 50t with diamond frame bogies MS.3 in WD livery (GWR) - £33

 

 

H4-WW-002A - Warwell wagon 50t with diamond frame bogies WW.52 in WD livery (LMS) - £33

 

 

H4-WW-003A - Warwell wagon 50t with diamond frame bogies WW.38 in WD livery (LNER) - £33

 

 

H4-WW-006A - Warwell wagon 50t with diamond frame bogies M360337 in BR grey - £33

 

 

Of course we still have some of our first batch of Warwells available catering for all eras from the 1940s to the present day and a full list can be found on our website Here.

 

Cheers,

Dave

 

 

 

[JSpencer]

Stop it! You are spoiling us.

 

Are there any from the original 40s batch left though? I thought they were all later.

 

We will soon have a rake of 15 at this rate. Now we need a WD 2-10-0....

Edited July 12, 2018 by JSpencer

[GreenGiraffe22]

Stop it! You are spoiling us.

 

Are there any from the original 40s batch left though? I thought they were all later.

 

We will soon have a rake of 15 at this rate. Now we need a WD 2-10-0....

 

 

That or a Hunslet Austerity to shunt them, so many variants of old and new toolings now and frustratingly as far as I know none of the liveries are suitable for 1944. There is at least the USATC tank from Model Rail

Edited July 12, 2018 by GreenGiraffe22

[PhilJ W]

Stop it! You are spoiling us.

 

Are there any from the original 40s batch left though? I thought they were all later.

 

We will soon have a rake of 15 at this rate. Now we need a WD 2-10-0....

 

 

That or a Hunslet Austerity to shunt them, so many variants of old and new toolings now and frustratingly as far as I know none of the liveries are suitable for 1944. There is at least the USATC tank from Model Rail

There is a picture of a rake of Warwells loaded with Sherman tanks being hauled by a Metropolitan Bo-Bo electric.

[Garethp8873]

Email received today telling my order for the latest three OO Warwells has been processed...

[JZ]

Noticed the other day that a load of Warwells have appeared in the REME sidings at Warminster. Also a few Warflats. Passing there again Thurday, will try to get a photo.