Tri-ang Railways.

[GoingUnderground]

Do you have any particular early ones worth watching? I gather the catenary went up with the EM2 buys?

I don't know about the eatly ones but anything featuring the Triang Sydney Suburban "Red Rattlers" is worth watching simply because they are very likely to be some of the rarer Triang Railways items, probably under 2,000 of each of the three items as Hammond doesn't quote the exact number produced. They comprise the powered driving motor, the unpowered driving motor, and the trailer car, R450, R451 and R452, think that's the right part numbers. They were only sold in Australia, but a few have found their way to the UK. As a result, even unboxed examples tend go for serious (over £200 each) money on Ebay whenever they appear, which isn't terribly often. Edited October 11, 2018 by GoingUnderground

[Golden Fleece 30]

I don't know about the eatly ones but anything featuring the Triang Sydney Suburban "Red Rattlers" is worth watching simply because they are very likely to be some of the rarer Triang Railways items, probably under 2,000 of each of the three items as Hammond doesn't quote the exact number produced. They comprise the powered driving motor, the unpowered driving motor, and the trailer car, R450, R451 and R452, think that's the right part numbers. They were only sold in Australia, but a few have found their way to the UK. As a result, even unboxed examples tend go for serious (over £200 each) money on Ebay whenever they appear, which isn't terribly often.

Not quite the rarest as the Tri-ang TT blue and grey coaches had only about 400 of each corridor an brakes made, and only 298 Restaurant cars. The corridor and brakes usually go for around the £150 mark but a mint boxed Restaurant Car went for over £300 a few months ago. The one here went about a month ago for £199 on Buy it Now. The rarest loco I know of is the TT blue A1A of which I have never seen for sale yet but told one went for 4 figures quite a while ago. Don't know how many were produced though.

 

Garry

Edited October 11, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[cypherman]

I suspect Ian Paisleys videos might be something completely different.............................

 

Sorry couldn't resist!

Hi all,

OOPS sorry meant Oscar Paisley. Was in a hurry when I posted it.........

[GoingUnderground]

Not quite the rarest as the Tri-ang TT blue and grey coaches had only about 400 of each corridor an brakes made, and only 298 Restaurant cars. The corridor and brakes usually go for around the £150 mark but a mint boxed Restaurant Car went for over £300 a few months ago. The one here went about a month ago for £199 on Buy it Now. The rarest loco I know of is the TT blue A1A of which I have never seen for sale yet but told one went for 4 figures quite a while ago. Don't know how many were produced though.

 

Garry

I was thinking of the OO models. Sorry, I should have made that clearer.

 

There is one livery variant of the green bodied 0-4-0 steeplecab R.254, that's relatively rare, you don't often see them, but I don't know the numbers produced. Pat Hammond gives the total number produced of R.254 as 15,000, which is quite low.

 

In the catalogue it was sometimes shown with the BR locos, and at other times with the Transcontinental range, when it had yellow TR logo without any background colour, or The TR in yellow on a red shield, both of which were different to the TR logo used on the red bodied Primary Series R.252 version of the Steeplecab loco. Also the yellow TR logo illustrations show it without buffers, like the other Transcontinental locos, but the red shield version has buffers. Despite the logo changes, it remained R.254.

 

The round BR coach logo'ed examples are common, and that's what you're likely to find on Ebay. But there are a few around with the red shield TR logo. I came across mine quite by accident at a swapmeet several years ago. I don't think folks realise that it's uncommon, and if found can be bought at reasonable prices, probanly because it would be easy to create a non-original one.

 

I've never seen the plain yellow lettered TR bufferless example, and Hammond implies that it might not have been produced in that livery variant. As regards the red shield version, judging by how seldom they're seen for sale, I suspect that they might account for somewhere between 5 and 10% at most of the 15,000, making it somewhere between 750 and 1,500 models, which, if I'm right, is similar to the volumes of the "Red Rattlers", and small for a loco which was one of the cheaper locos in the UK range.

Edited October 12, 2018 by GoingUnderground

[john new]

Interesting challenge overcome tonight.

 

Old solid wheel Jinty (47606) given to grandsons as a runner a while back but it had now stopped.

 

Took body off, checked for the obvious (A bent in pick up causing a short to the chassis), oiled it and away it goes round the test track. Little bit of running to work the oil through and with the Gaugemaster it will even crawl. (Job done - not!)

 

Put the body back on properly and screwed it on - dead as a door nail.

 

Body part on (but loose at front end) and it runs.

 

Problem I think was that the springyness in the wiring was pressing against the body and lifting the brush off the commutator. Never had that happen before in umpteen years of running Tri-ang. Took a fair bit of fiddling with the wires to get it to avoid it recurring.

Edited October 29, 2018 by john new

[Golden Fleece 30]

Interesting challenge overcome tonight.

 

Old solid wheel Jinty (47606) given to grandsons as a runner a while back but it had now stopped.

 

Took body off, checked for the obvious (A bent in pick up causing a short to the chassis), oiled it and away it goes round the test track. Little bit of running to work the oil through and with the Gaugemaster it will even crawl. (Job done - not!)

 

Put the body back on properly and screwed it on - dead as a door nail.

 

Body part on (but loose at front end) and it runs.

 

Problem I think was that the springyness in the wiring was pressing against the body and lifting the brush off the commutator. Never had that happen before in umpteen years of running Tri-ang. Took a fair bit of fiddling with the wires to get it to avoid it recurring.

That is a similar problem with the Tri-ang TT locos too. Over time the wiring hardens loosing its flexibility and then can pull the spring wire away from the brush. Quite often I replace the wire with a thinner flexible one and remove the suppressor to free up more room. With digital TV the suppressor is not needed although I know it can help the sparking but watching one with and one without running I cannot tell the difference.

 

Garry

Edited October 30, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[Il Grifone]

Hi Garry,

 

Anyone still using AM radio (Gold for example - vintage music is better* too!) might not be too happy. The suppressor doesn't take up much space and tiny 470pF ceramic capacitors are available today.

 

* That's if you can even call today's noise 'music'....

 

David

[Il Grifone]

Hi Garry,

 

Anyone still using AM radio (Gold for example - vintage music is better* too!) might not be too happy. The suppressor doesn't take up much space and tiny 470pF ceramic capacitors are available today.

 

* That's if you can even call today's noise 'music'....

 

David

 

My railway room DAB radio* stops working properly with some locomotives despite the suppressor capacitors. Probably because of dirty track or wheels.

 

* Usually tuned to 'Gold' or 'Magic Soul' or BBC Radio 2 during the pre-newstime commercials. The BBC always seems to select something obscure and/or cr*p during this period.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Hi Garry,

 

Anyone still using AM radio (Gold for example - vintage music is better* too!) might not be too happy. The suppressor doesn't take up much space and tiny 470pF ceramic capacitors are available today.

 

* That's if you can even call today's noise 'music'....

 

David

Hi David,

 

I forgot about old radio stations but their owners wont know where I live.  I may look at the small one you mention but the standard Tri-ang ones are quite large for fitting inside small boilers like the Jinty and Castle.

 

I agree the so called "music" of today is worse than the interference in my opinion.

 

Garry

[john new]

E3001s can go for surprisingly high prices .  The two shades you refer to I think are Electric Blue and Rail Blue . For the E3001 it first appeared in Electric blue (the lighter shade) with small stick on yellow warning panel . I believe Triang Hornby may have used this shade for the first all over blue versions with full yellow ends . I think the Hymek may also have had this lighter colour for a while . Latterley they were all rail blue, probably from 1969 as Bernard states above.

 

As to the coaches , the first blue/grey ones were lighter blue , but in these days were made in their thousands , so I don't think they are particularly rare . There are variations on roof colour used. Most have light grey roofs but some had a darker grey , the same as later applied to the later rail blue and grey

 

Hope that helps . One of Pat Hammonds books, Vol 2 I think, will have the definitive versions, but unfortunately I'm not home at moment.

 

In short , not particularly rare, but nice models!

Update - Having now got everything I own in 00 out of storage to check what have got I can add:

 

E3001 - R753, Knurled wheels, double arrow logo, single pan, roof slider switch. (Something the new Hornby OH one's don't have due to plastic pans -backwards step)

 

The coaches = 3 in total. One brake end, 2 composites. They are a variant not given above - Pale blue/grey sides with off-white/v pale grey roof. Running numbers have no region prefix letter.  I am assuming original condition but as I was given them I can't say that for certain.

Edited November 15, 2018 by john new

[45568]

This is rare, I don't remember this set 'back in the day'!

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Very-Rare-Triang-RS44-Picador-Train-Set-2-6-2-Continental-Loco-Exc-Boxed/323571126941?hash=item4b5657929d:g:yFgAAOSwG4xa6uK4:rk:3:pf:1&frcectupt=true

 

Cheers from Oz,

 

Peter C.

[Golden Fleece 30]

This is rare, I don't remember this set 'back in the day'!

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Very-Rare-Triang-RS44-Picador-Train-Set-2-6-2-Continental-Loco-Exc-Boxed/323571126941?hash=item4b5657929d:g:yFgAAOSwG4xa6uK4:rk:3:pf:1&frcectupt=true

 

Cheers from Oz,

 

Peter C.

I remember the name "Picador" set but cannot remember the SNCF brake van which is a copy of the TT one (or vica-versa).  It is a 60's set as it has Super 4 track in it.  I believe that loco was disguised at times for different countries but not 100% certain.

 

Garry

[cypherman]

Hi all,

Believe it or not, but I had that trainset. I still have the chassis for the engine. Though my chassis was painted red as standard. The rest is long gone. If I remember right the piston block broke on it and it bent one of the sets of valve gear. I do not know where my father got it from as he often turned up with presents for me from all round the world. He was in the merchant navy and as a child I revelled in his tails of those exotic place he had been to. Sadly that may I say was many years ago.......

[Il Grifone]

 It's extremely rare!

 

Being 1. French (allegedly) 2. 00 scale (and thus incompatible with any other French models) and 3 cr rubbish, sales were rather less than expected. Why 'Picador' seeing it's supposed to be French and not Spanish has never been explained to my knowledge. The chassis is the same as the 3MT tank (apart from the red colour) as far as I know and thus could be put to use quite economically. I don't Know why they gave the locomotive red wheels as the French (unlike the Germans and Italians) painted the wheels black (again AFAIK). She was possibly intended to be one of these?

 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fphotos.smugmug.com%2FTrains-Railway-overseas%2FEurope%2FFrance-French-Railways%2FFrance%2Fi-tdPfDJL%2F1%2F4efc51a9%2FXL%2FFrance_131TB9_Cond%25C3%25A9-en-Brie_18-10-69-XL.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fmikemorant.smugmug.com%2FTrains-Railway-overseas%2FEurope%2FFrance-French-Railways%2FFrance%2Fi-wkncZbX%2FA&docid=B5FDNE5QGyAQ1M&tbnid=oBZuwqfjHol2vM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwi0gfWl2fTeAhUDZFAKHVXhBkAQMwg_KAIwAg..i&w=800&h=533&client=firefox-b&bih=666&biw=1304&q=sncf%202-6-2t&ved=0ahUKEwi0gfWl2fTeAhUDZFAKHVXhBkAQMwg_KAIwAg&iact=mrc&uact=8

 

Fracture of Tri-ang cylinder blocks and motion brackets is extremely common and difficult to repair. The cylinder blocks may be saved by melting wire into the plastic to reinforce the joint but the motion brackets are better replaced.

 

Looking for a prototype, I came across this and wondered if she could have been the inspiration for the Hornby 0 gauge Atlantic seeing the cylinders stuck outside the running plate in a similar manner. The Atlantics were available in a number of guises, but not like any of them!. Not as far as I know as a P8, but I doubt Meccano  would have wanted to compete with their then associates at Märklin.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_P_8

[cypherman]

Hi all,

it is still possible occasionally to pick up the loco second hand. Here is one on that well known site.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIANG-OO-GAUGE-R653-SNCF-2-6-2-CONTINENTAL-PRAIRIE-TANK-NICE-RUNNER/222988083299?hash=item33eb202063:g:M7UAAOSwfX9b1GDs:rk:11:pf:0

 

I wonder how many model engines owe their continued existence to the internet. When I was child if you did not have a decent model shop near by getting spares for anything that broke was extremely difficult and in some cases damned near impossible. That's why my engine ended up being scrapped as we could not get the parts to fix it. So it languished in a box for years before being broken up for spares.  Spares are now so much more easily available online.

To highlight this I had (Still have the Dorchester) a Wrenn Dorchester with a badly damaged tender when I was about 14-15 years old. I went to Hattons in Liverpool with my father. This is of course pre internet days.It was about 1975. We asked if had or could get a replacement tender for this engine. We were told that yes they could possibly get a tender but it would cost about £75.00 as they were very rare. Needless to say we did not get one and it ended up running with a modified 9F tender. Well 40 years on and while looking at the a for said internet auction site I came across the required West Country class tender in the correct BR livery and purchased it for £10.00 inc P+P.

Edited November 27, 2018 by cypherman

[sandwich station]

Hi all,

Believe it or not, but I had that trainset. I still have the chassis for the engine. Though my chassis was painted red as standard. The rest is long gone. If I remember right the piston block broke on it and it bent one of the sets of valve gear. I do not know where my father got it from as he often turned up with presents for me from all round the world. He was in the merchant navy and as a child I revelled in his tails of those exotic place he had been to. Sadly that may I say was many years ago.......

 

 

The red chassis version comes from 1969 and was sold solo (not in sets), is rarer than the 1963 version (in the set) and is quite sort after. The body was also modified and had two domes instead of one.

[cypherman]

The red chassis version comes from 1969 and was sold solo (not in sets), is rarer than the 1963 version (in the set) and is quite sort after. The body was also modified and had two domes instead of one.

Thanks for the info. I got it in a set, But as it was second hand when I got it so it could have been added to the set at any time before hand.  I think I will try and rebuild the chassis as I have both sets of pony wheels and all the driving wheels. Just need the main gear as I used that on another model. A future project. Sadly I have no idea where the body is.

[sandwich station]

Thanks for the info. I got it in a set, But as it was second hand when I got it so it could have been added to the set at any time before hand.  I think I will try and rebuild the chassis as I have both sets of pony wheels and all the driving wheels. Just need the main gear as I used that on another model. A future project. Sadly I have no idea where the body is.

 

If you have the correct wheels, they will be red.

[cypherman]

If you have the correct wheels, they will be red.

Hi,

Yes they are red.

[GoingUnderground]

According to Pat Hammond it comprised the Continental Prairie Tank, three freight cars, R.116, R.137 & R.262 SNCF Fourgon. Trackwork was Super 4, 8 double curves (1st radius probably, but he doesn't say) and 4 single straights, and was the first and only set produced to tepresent mainland European railways. It was produced in 1963-4, with 3,000 made of which probably less than 1,000 were sold in the UK.

[Nearholmer]

Grifone

 

It is more probable that the Hornby 0 gauge Atlantic was inspired by the Nord 231C. 

 

JEP, Hornby's main rival in France, made the 231C in several versions, the best one having the correct number of wheels and being a really nice representation that came in a set a Flèche D'Or Pullman car and the really strange baggage car with two demountable containers. The set is, for good reasons, highly sought-after. The Hornby flèche d'or is good, the coaches make up a bit for the loco, but the JEP train is streets better. http://train.jouet.ancien.chez.com/flechedor.html

 

Kevin

 

(Apologies for OT intervention)

Edited November 28, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Il Grifone]

Hi Kevin,

 

That was always my thought, especially seeing there is a 'Nord' version. If was just the cylinder arrangement of the P8 that struck me.

The Hornby 'bible' states that she was "loosely based" on a Nord Pacific (without reference) despite a first appearance in the 'Riviera Blue Train' which should have been PLM (little details that didn't matter much in 1926!). Apparently there was a PLM version sold in France.

 

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/231_Nord_3.1201_%C3%A0_3.1240 (In French - sorry!)

 

In the JEP link, their model looks more like the real thing than the drawing which is claimed to be of the prototype. (This has problems with the valvegear. A return crank with its axis in line with that of the driving axle is not going to transmit much motion to the valves!)

 

You shouldn't have shown me that. Now I want one! A price involving four figures (or maybe five?) I imagine!

 

Back on topic, the Tri-ang (and Graham Farish) Pullman Cars in 'Wagon-Lits' blue fool nobody. (That reminds me my collection lacks both versions. )

 

David

[Nearholmer]

I’m not in a place where I can access the ‘bible’, but I thought the Atlantic was first made in Liverpool, but for the French market. Whether the Blue Train or Fleche DO’r was issued first by Hornby in France I don’t know, but both trains ran over the Nord, the former only for the first part of the journey, of course, so a faux-231C was good for both.

Edited November 29, 2018 by Nearholmer

[sncf231e]

 

 

You shouldn't have shown me that. Now I want one! A price involving four figures (or maybe five?) I imagine!

 

 

 

David

 

I have seen complete sets for about 1500 and if you find the separate items to get a complete JEP Fleche d'Or (like I did) you could spare a few hundred.

 

https://youtu.be/wimloDToxec

 

Regards

Fred

[Il Grifone]

I’m not in a place where I can access the ‘bible’, but I thought the Atlantic was first made in Liverpool, but for the French market. Whether the Blue Train or Fleche DO’r was issued first by Hornby in France I don’t know, but both trains ran over the Nord, the former only for the first part of the journey, of course, so a faux-231C was good for both.

 

It doesn't say. It just says 1926 for the Riviera set. I didn't realise the Blue Train made the epic journey around Paris.

 

 

Which reminds me of our move to Italy in 1976. - warning long story.....

 

I can claim to have made the whole journey. though not on the Blue Train,  just an ordinary train - in the corridor with wife, young daughter and Duke, our rough collie, in tow! We should have had a couchette, but there was a problem with the dog. The French had just issued a requirement for imported animals to have had an injection for some disease or other, but no-one knew what it was and they wouldn't let us on the ferry, without the relevant document*. So find a vet, in Dover. in February and on a Saturday. This done we took the next ferry. Luckily this was an SNCF one, as we hadn't realised we had to provide the cage for the dog to go in the hold. Our request was met by "Take him in the saloon with you" (with a sort of 'Mad English' expression). So no problem there and, once over the Channel, the French customs officer wasn't in the least interested in our vet's certificate and just waved us through (with the same expression as the steward on the ferry). We had of course missed our couchette, so had to huddle up in the corridor as all the seats were booked. We were supposed to travel to Turin via the Fréjus tunnel, but the train was routed to Ventimiglia (actually more convenient as we were moving to Diano Marina on the Italian Riviera). We were told we would have to change at Dijon (at 2 in the morning!). When finally we arrived there was about six inches of snow! Duke was taken off the train, but decided that. having dealt with the immediate necessity, the train was the place to be! (Collies are very intelligent!) So we decided to pay the difference when the collector came round again. However he didn't and we travelled all the way. Once there, we got off the train (on the wrong side and avoided Italian customs  - not on purpose, we just didn't know ).

 

* Problems with quarantine and even being put down, if not allowed into France.

Edited November 29, 2018 by Il Grifone