RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted January 7, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) The rear protection or safety cage has been made by forming brass wire around an automatic pencil shaft for the horizontal ones and the vertical wires needed careful locating. I had failed to consider the location when initialling building the sides and adding the steam pipes so had to be real care when drilling locating holes; one to get the placement symmetrical with both sides and also so when place vertically they located as close to the edge of the plat as possible whilst still holding the vertical. Once this had been mark satisfactorily small holes drilled to run the vertical through the platform up to and into the main connecting bean adjacent to the steam pipe locations and supergluing. All rails then soldered at every crossing point to give the impression of rail connections. Cut excess and file flush. To neaten up things the solder was filed as cleanly as possible. To create the side grab rails and piston protection I used brass wire and a couple of hand rail knobs. Bending the wire around a small paint brush shaft to create the rounded area protecting the pistons and a pair of pliers for the more angular bends. Hand rail knobs have locating holes marked and drilled, held in place with superglue. Very neat work. I am afraid I took a very down-market short-cut when putting similar railings around the footplate of my hydraulic dockside rail-mounted crane. I chopped up a cheap square mesh bird feeder! Edit - apologies for barging into your thread on your excellent model. Edited January 8, 2017 by phil_sutters 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 It has been a little while since my last update. Unfortunately very little work on Hercules has taken place. A few seasonal distractions as well as a GWR ‘Beetle’ kit bringing construction to a mindful halt. I will chain up the crane later but now I will focus on the main locomotive and additional bogie. I believe I has a suitable backhead to put in place, after some re-sizing. The said bogie is part completed having semi constructed a Cambrian one suitable for the job, can be seen in previous pictures. I will add the additional plating that protected the prototype using thin plasticard and possibly some of the Archers rivet transfers recently purchased. As for the footplate and base for the crane mounting I am a little stuck. Initially I had cut a piece of plasticard to fit and to connect via the raised footplate of the pannier kit (shown in previous pictures). This is where the nut to attach the chassis is sited and a little higher than the side. My original idea was to continue this but sanding the plasticard down to meet the sides giving an impression the footplate was all one level, especially as everything is black. Now I am thinking do I cut into this raised area reducing the height to match the true footplate but potentially losing the anchoring site for the chassis. A possible disastrous cutting job but one if completed well would benefit the overall appearance. If there was no question in the fact that I knew I had the appropriate tooling and an easy replacement if things should go wrong I would probably not even think about it and go ahead cutting away but I don't have this luxury so a little hesitant. Alas; should I stick or twist?! I have been asking myself this for two weeks now, each time coming up with a different answer and solution. I'm really impressed with the crane construction. Might I make a suggestion for the continuation of the footplate (this is just an idea I've never tried it)? As you appear to prefer plastic to work with I would be concerned about the strength of bond between the whitemetal footplate and the extension piece. However there is a nice U shaped channel behind the cab steps. If you put beams of stout plastic card reaching back to the rear buffer beam (possibly with a section connecting them across the back to help support the bufferbeam (assuming there is one) these could be packed out in that channel to trap them in place thus strengthening the joint. A sub floor layer with a thinner plate on top could then be fabricated to butt up to the existing footplate all the way across, leaving the fixing point block in place. If the fixing point block gets in the way of mounting the crane then you could cut it back to where the nut is which would hopefully give you enough room. On the prototype loco (as per your picture) there are some prominent rivet heads in the valance at about the point where the footplate would be joined so they would help to hide the joint. What you want to avoid is any possibility that there would be flexing at this joint as it would always be liable to crack. If possible I'd try to stagger the joint in the valance and in the footplating (is that a word?) too. Just a suggestion to consider. Looking forward to seeing this develop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Very neat work. I am afraid I took a very down-market short-cut when putting similar railings around the footplate of my hydraulic dockside rail-mounted crane. I chopped up a cheap square mesh bird feeder! Edit - apologies for barging into your thread on your excellent model. Hi Phil, No, not high jacking. I opened this project in the forum rather than a blog for exactly this I wanted people to feel they could discuss various skills and build items moving on a tangent to the main topic and coming back. This is exactly what I wanted, thank you. Nice idea regarding the bird feeder I will keep that in mind for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Thank you Darwinian appreciate your thoughts I will keep them in mind whilst deciding the way forward for this footplate. I see what you mean regarding the cracking of the joint in the future, especially when storing etc. Appreciate your input I have a few thoughts but will need to 'dry run' before any major surgery, just to make sure the idea is plausible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted January 14, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2017 Hi Phil, No, not high jacking. I opened this project in the forum rather than a blog for exactly this I wanted people to feel they could discuss various skills and build items moving on a tangent to the main topic and coming back. This is exactly what I wanted, thank you. Nice idea regarding the bird feeder I will keep that in mind for sure. Thanks for your friendly response - I'll put the photos below so you can see the bird-feeder railings. The crane is one of three I have nearly finished for a dockside diorama. They have all been based on photos and concocted without drawings or dimensions. I know that they will all have many details missed out. Steam cranes seem to have so many pipes, valves, cogs, pulleys etc. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 Phil - that crane is beautiful. You are right that the steam cranes seem to have pipes and parts just for decoration there are so many. The bird feeder railings are fantastic. Good luck with the project. I have decided I am going to try and cut off the raised area in the cab space and tinker with the chassis mounting screw as this is where it is located. Just need a get a decent mini cutting disc as my current one is a little blunt. There is a show coming this weekend so will have to wait for that before any destruction can take place. I have been side-tracked with a couple of plastic kits as I could do a little and stop so may try and finish one of those at least before continuing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 Well I got my cutting discs ready to cut that big lump off to level the flooring; Yes Yes Noooooooooooooooooooooo! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 Slipped whilst cutting the last of slots on the chassis for the buffer bean to be attached. these have to be removed as they foul the movement of the rear bogie but me being heavy handed, cut all the way through. Filler time! Hopefully this will conseal my last of concentration. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted January 22, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2017 I came across a photo taken at Swindon in 1930 of three crane locos. including Hercules. It is in my well-thumbed copy of J.E.Kite's '1850 - 1925 Vintage Album'. Hercules is in the middle of the three and doesn't add anything to your photo at the head of this thread. Mr.Kite mentions that there is/was a photo of Hercules steaming through Sonning cutting. That would be a sight worth seeing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 After three layers of filler and plenty of filing and shaving with a blade, I think I may have got away with it. Phil a picture of Hercules in full steam through Sonning Cutting would be excellent to see but i have not seen anything other than static pictures and one in Russell's pictorial working at Paddington but that too appears a little staged. Darwinian mentioned the work in plastic which has got me thinking about the footplate and the potential for the joint between whitemetal and plastic snapping in the future especially when in use. Maybe I can use a small amount of brass sheet like the plastic I have already cut. This could be used to ensure there is a nice thin but even overhang the footplate over the frames, hmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'll have to investigate what my local shop has to offer this weekend. This may also help with the frame extensions required and plating over the bogie sides. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 A quick visit to my local and a new footplate plan has been hatched. I found just what I was looking for and an extra couple of Parkside wagon kits to boot. It has taken quite some time to get everything soldered together and stay soldered, especially as all the pieces of brass and white metal are separate and support each other. The camera seems to make the joints look a little messy but to the naked eye they are sound and flush. Once painted I hope all joins will disappear as they are smooth to touch. I am not sure where I found the pair of steps but they are certainly very useful but very hard to line up the brass sheet to ensure a flush join. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 Could not resist the temptation of a dry placement of the parts to-date, very encouraging; 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted February 6, 2017 Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 Thank you to everyone that have commented on the locomotive or have 'rated' it somehow I have lost my rating/replies. Steady progress has been made over the weekend with the addition of a rear buffer beam fashioned from brass sheet and buffers From the pictures I have in Russell's pictorial Hercules seems to have slightly different designed buffers. These are from what I can tell a Dean type but I am no expert and only taking a 'eye view'. I will add rivet detail to the side frames and buffer beans later when less handling of the locomotive is required to reduce any accidental removal. The buffer beans are slightly oversized, as the prototype this also explains the slightly larger than normal buffer, I believe. I was going to leave the additional height off of the front buffer and put it down to 'builder's licence' but for some reason I felt brave and so a thin slither of brass was cut and then recut, filed and shaped and then soldered from the front onto the top of the beam to suggest it all as one. The camera gives them impression there is a small step between the kit beam and my addition but this is not there on viewing. I am happy with the end result as I am the rear buffer bean creating a lovely narrow overlap all around. I later had a little go at mounting a motor and gears to the solid chassis. This proved a longer and harder job than first thought. Removal of some of the existing chassis was required in order to site the gearbox. This too required a little alteration. The chassis also needed some cutting and filing to mount the motor without it potentially fowling whilst keeping the electrical contacts far enough away from the middle wheel set. So far it seems OK but I am yet to apply power or connect the coupling rods. This is to come as I will need to look into ways of connecting the power supply to the motor and what suits best for this build. The gearing and motor all fit nicely into the main body cavity when the chassis is offered up to the locomotive, so far so good. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Made a start in the tool box at the rear of the locomotive. Made from brass sheet cut and shaped as required then soldered. Seems OK and a nice fit. Took hours though constantly having to re-solder joints that either got too hot and parted or that were just rubbish. Also had to replace the whistles with a new set. I have finally destroyed them beyond saving but lesson learnt brass is better for finer details like these than white metal. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Also finalised the abckhead for the boil. After finding a good example on a spare RTR chassis. This was a little short so I have removed the bottom detail for the fire door and inserted a little plasticard between that and the control details. Looks a little messy at the moment as various types of coloured plastic but hoping that once primed it will look like all one piece and after crew have been added will just give that little extra cab detail required. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 It has been a little while and not that much has been achieved. I have spent some time finishing off small details including the various shaped plates that protect the rear bogie, forming some lamp brackets and shaping some small off cuts of brass sheet to make the jib supports that are positioned on top of the tank. Will have to find away to connect them at right angle sin the centre forming a 'T' and then on to the pannier tank. Is that the smell of burning finger tips?! Whilst studying the pictures further to create the job brackets it occurred to me that I am missing some valuable details on the chassis. The omission of chassis details such as brakes etc would mean the final result would be some where off the mark. Small allowances can be accepted as modeler's licence but I think to overlook something as fundamental as brakes on a locomotive would deter from the desired outcome, so an appropriate chassis kit has been sourced and order from the original manufacturer. Fingers crossed it will fit now with the alterations that I have made. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 (edited) Sorry for the lack of any posts here, I have not been idle though. Rather frustrating times with small detail parts and priming the chassis and bogie. The lamp irons required re-shaping and positioning, the crane job supports will require enlarging or completely leaving out as they may look totally oversized. A new etched chassis has arrived from Southern Fincast which for this purpose require modifying. I removed a little from the rear of the chassis making new holes for the spacer. The front of the chassis had the drop down guide (I don't know what it is called, apologies for my ignorance) detail was reshaped to that of the prototype with a support bracket soldered in place as per pictures. This was salvaged from the rear piece previously removed. Any little gaps where new items have been inserted or replacing out have been filled and filed smooth. The glass for the cab windows has been cut to fit flush, these will be added after varnishing. The chassis has been soldered up and 'push' tested a number of times to ensure smooth running. I have had some serious problems making pick ups and positioning them correctly. It appears the pulls for the brake gear is also different to the chassis of the actual model being used so I have been thinking about have best to attack this element. Edited to include photos. The first showing the chassis made up before priming and the piece removed to allow repositioning and shaping as a support. Edited March 5, 2017 by No46 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 I am most impressed by your determination to get the best result you can with this build and redo things that don't quite pass muster. It is really starting to come together now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 Thank you Darwinian and everyone else for your kind comments and support. Another couple of hours of chassis frustration. Due to not being able to fix the Mashima motor in level I have removed it and the gear box and replaced with an anchorage type motor (slimmer style) that I have found. I decided to experiment with the chassis frames to see if I could somehow use the frames on the sides of the original Finecast white metal block chassis but without some surgery on the body this would not fit. Surgery is not an option yet. I am now almost back to the starting point of the chassis build. Additionally, working so long with the wheels and chassis I have come to the conclusion that a new set will be required as the current set have moulded parts in the spokes to add wheel balances, the prototype does not appear to have any at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 Well the chassis has been rebuilt and sprayed again. Just have to fit the brakes and manipulate the brake pulls to inside the wheels as opposed to outside. I have searched for replacement wheels is no luck. There is a local show soon so hopefully someone will have my requirements either with them or in stock but for now I'm going to use what I have and just not solder up the coupling rods. The rear bogie has had the rivets added using pictures as locators and the glue method as there are not too many present and sprayed. I will use the transfers for the locomotive body and footplate as the rivets do look a lot finer than I can realistically reproduce and besides gives a nice comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 Rivet transfers applied in areas that required detail but also in some areas to 'touch up' details that has been accidently removed when filing or cutting, the transfers are in black. Wow they are more time consuming and can at times be much more of a fiddle to apply and then re-apply having accidently removed them when handling the model. the end result after applying micro sol and before priming looks good and a much finer/sharper appearance than I have produced so worth the investment. Now to relocate the whistles (again) after knocking them off during transfer application. Then spray prime, this should also identify any areas requiring further attention prior to livery spray. Still to add the brakes to the chassis but once done and sprayed just the number and name plates to add until the appropriate wheels can be sourced. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penrhos1920 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Rivet transfers applied in areas that required detail but also in some areas to 'touch up' details that has been accidently removed when filing or cutting, the transfers are in black. Wow they are more time consuming and can at times be much more of a fiddle to apply..... Worth it though. Are they Archers? If so which packet? UK sourced? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 Worth it though. Are they Archers? If so which packet? UK sourced? Yes they are Archers. I purchased them through Historex Agents of Kent. Pack number AR88001 not the set I was after but as close to it. I was after the starter set AR88087. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 Finished chassis now with brakes and pull rods. Not the cleanest soldering job but appears OK and will have a nice coat of black paint to hide any odd spots. The rods had to be re-positioned from the chassis kit, from outside to inside the wheels. This posed a little problem with fowling the rear pick up, the locating screw for the body and the rearranged front guide shaping but a few bends and all is well. I have also the need to cut a little of the body underside away near the front buffers as the 'new' chassis requires more clearance for the brake detail than the original cast block chassis. So strip back, prime and coat in black, twice, then onto priming and spraying the loco body. This is to clean any flux and solder grime up but also making sure paint layers are consistent rather than the potential to have too much build up on the already painted chassis sides. The wheels will hopefully be replaced shortly hence not fixing the coupling rods. The local show is in a couple of weeks so hopefully there will be the appropriate wheels set there. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 Thank you to everyone for their comments and feedback, I really appreciate it. I have decided to go ahead with the jib supports on the tank. The first design I discarded completely and after studying the pictures that I have drew a design on some paper, cut this out and used it as a template on the model to get an idea of size and how the overall effect would be. Pleasantly surprised with the finished result so using this paper template made four thin brass plates and shaped them using a file to finish. Picture two shows each with a measure to gauge size. These then are soldered in a butt joint centrally. I have again used the Archers rivet detail here. I will attach these using glue as any heat is likely to destroy the already formed joints. Whilst making these I thought about some of the other potential details I could add having noticed more when studying pictures for the jib supports. On the left side of the loco is a lever, I presume for the brakes or maybe sand. Using some of the nickel silver left over from the chassis parts this has been fashion to represent this (picture one at the top) just need to cut to size and attach. on the right side appear to be a number of pipes or cables coming from the cab, I will look further into these but should be easily represented with each brass wire or if levers more nickel silver. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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