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Gaugemaster DCC80 frog juicer





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#1 Butler Henderson

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 18:08

Anyone used one of these. Need to "frog juice" four frogs and the Tam Valley ones are ££ more.



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#2 Oldddudders

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 18:16

Anyone used one of these. Need to "frog juice" four frogs and the Tam Valley ones are ££ more.

 

I have been wondering the same thing. Given their existing tie-ups, I assume these are from DCC Concepts think-tank. 



#3 New Haven Neil

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 18:40

We sell loads of them but I haven't used one myself!  Not had any returned though so I suppose they are fine - good price for what they are.  Other dealers are available.


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#4 Ron Ron Ron

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 22:01

A similar question on the Gaugemaster DCC80 Autofrog was posted in another thread, a month ago.

Since then, no further comments about, or personal experience of, these "Frog Juicers" has been posted (as far as I know).

 

This was my own two-penneth worth (also posting a question) in that thread.....

 

They are certainly much cheaper...
 
Gaugemaster DCC80 - £5.50
Tam Valley Mono Frog Juicer - £11.50
 
2 x Gaugemaster DCC80 - £11.00
(3 pack x DCC80 - £14.00)
Tam Valley Dual Frog Juicer - £24.50
 
However, the Gaugemaster product appears to be relay based, as opposed to Tam Valley's all-electronic devices.
Will the DCC80 work successfully with DCC systems that have ultra fast short protection?
 
 
 
.


Edited by Ron Ron Ron, 25 November 2016 - 22:04 .

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#5 Butler Henderson

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 10:44

Discussion on the N Gauge Forum certainly shows a relay as DIY version of it

http://www.ngaugefor...p?topic=33870.0

 

Again no conclusive comments on them as I read it.


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#6 Butler Henderson

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 15:27

A bit more web trawling throws up some comments on Model Railway Forum of no problems with them. On the other hand a fresh sheet of paper and more thinking time and for my needs a couple of double pole relays wired to the polarity switch on a pair of nearby point motors should resolve my frog polarity issues without any need for any frog juicers after all.


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#7 RFS

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 15:45

A bit more web trawling throws up some comments on Model Railway Forum of no problems with them. On the other hand a fresh sheet of paper and more thinking time and for my needs a couple of double pole relays wired to the polarity switch on a pair of nearby point motors should resolve my frog polarity issues without any need for any frog juicers after all.

 

The Gaugemaster GM500 will fit the bill for that solution. 

 

http://www.gaugemast...ugemaster GM500



#8 34069

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 09:51

They work fine, no problems encountered, 3 wires to solder on and that's it !

 

Overall a good bit of kit and saves messing around with switches Etc,  unless you like that kind of thing of course !

 

Cheers.  Del.


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#9 Rammstein2609

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 13:38

I can report they work perfectly well with DCC.  I had some electrical problems caused by some dodgy wiring to some relay boards which caused a short, as we were at a show the decision was made to cut some wires and install the Gaugemaster Frog Juicers and they worked perfectly.  As has been mentioned before, simply solder 3 wires to the juicer and take a wire from each DCC feed as well as the frog and it does everything else for you.

 

I'm now a convert being sceptical before and will likely use these on any layout from now on.

 

The only thing I will say about these is under normal conditions (without juicers), if a train is driven the wrong way over a turnout, the DCC system would short out instantly but once these juicers have been added, the train will keep on going and derail.  I found this out on several occasions during Model Rail Scotland last weekend but it's purely operator error and no fault of the product.

 

Cheers

 

Martin


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#10 tractor_37260

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 11:26

I can report they work perfectly well with DCC.  I had some electrical problems caused by some dodgy wiring to some relay boards which caused a short, as we were at a show the decision was made to cut some wires and install the Gaugemaster Frog Juicers and they worked perfectly.  As has been mentioned before, simply solder 3 wires to the juicer and take a wire from each DCC feed as well as the frog and it does everything else for you.

 

I'm now a convert being sceptical before and will likely use these on any layout from now on.

 

The only thing I will say about these is under normal conditions (without juicers), if a train is driven the wrong way over a turnout, the DCC system would short out instantly but once these juicers have been added, the train will keep on going and derail.  I found this out on several occasions during Model Rail Scotland last weekend but it's purely operator error and no fault of the product.

 

Cheers

 

Martin

 

Interesting comments on the use of DCC80's - plan using some soon. Have you considered putting short lengths of "insulated" (on one rail) tracks before the point, at the frog ends,  controlled via a switch/s on the bottom of Peco motors (if used) or micro switches on the tie-bar etc, the insulated section of track only being live if the point is correctly set for the route, if not the train stops on the insulated section rather than derailing and shorting the system.


Edited by tractor_37260, 04 July 2017 - 11:28 .

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#11 Butler Henderson

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 21:42

Anyone used them with the Peco Electrofrog 3 - way instead of switching the frogs by point motor mounted switches?



#12 Shroomy

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 05:13

Anyone used them with the Peco Electrofrog 3 - way instead of switching the frogs by point motor mounted switches?

I use them on my 3 way work perfect on Dcc layout
Just wired one to each frog no problems. Using cobalt Dcc motors to change points

Edited by Shroomy, 06 July 2017 - 05:14 .

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#13 Phil S

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 08:21

Interesting comments on the use of DCC80's - plan using some soon. Have you considered putting short lengths of "insulated" (on one rail) tracks before the point, at the frog ends,  controlled via a switch/s on the bottom of Peco motors (if used) or micro switches on the tie-bar etc, the insulated section of track only being live if the point is correctly set for the route, if not the train stops on the insulated section rather than derailing and shorting the system.

This makes the assumption that you ONLY EVER run trains which pick up power at the front and no where else - ie suggesting loco hauled services - not Push-Pull, Autotank working, DMUs and other units. Also if coaches behind the loco are picking up power for lighting, then they too may bridge the gap, reinstating power - therefore this 'isolated gap' methid fails to work UNLESS it is a complete train in length ... and not the coupe of inches available on a moel layout 8-(      Also, if it did work as you intend, a train stopping dead due to lack of power is as bad as an analogue layout train moving onto an unpoewered section ... not good operationally, and precisely one of the reasons for going to dcc with all sectins live at all times 8-)



#14 shibushe

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 10:43

I have a pack of these they seem simple enough not into complex wiring.

As yet not fitted any, my instruction sheet is not clear.

So a question. Does the frog wire actually go to the frog??



#15 tractor_37260

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 11:08

I have a pack of these they seem simple enough not into complex wiring.

As yet not fitted any, my instruction sheet is not clear.

So a question. Does the frog wire actually go to the frog??

 

See here

 

http://www.gaugemast...odigy/DCC80.pdf



#16 The Bigbee Line

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 16:32

I've ordered 2 and need to get them fitted ASAP.  I will send some pictures of installation and report on how they perform.



#17 tractor_37260

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 17:15

This makes the assumption that you ONLY EVER run trains which pick up power at the front and no where else - ie suggesting loco hauled services - not Push-Pull, Autotank working, DMUs and other units. Also if coaches behind the loco are picking up power for lighting, then they too may bridge the gap, reinstating power - therefore this 'isolated gap' methid fails to work UNLESS it is a complete train in length ... and not the coupe of inches available on a moel layout 8-(      Also, if it did work as you intend, a train stopping dead due to lack of power is as bad as an analogue layout train moving onto an unpoewered section ... not good operationally, and precisely one of the reasons for going to dcc with all sectins live at all times 8-)

 

Interesting comments, I'd agree with some of them, I've used this method in the past on a DC layout, interlocked with MAS signalling, where it was not possible to SPAD due to operator error etc, the section only being powered once the signal was off. As you commented with DCC and modern stock running with lighting etc, ideally the isolated section would need to be at least max train length, but surely it's preferable to stop just one train that's going to run into a point set against it (normally by operator error) than to short out the whole system resulting in everything stopping dead  8-)


Edited by tractor_37260, 06 July 2017 - 17:17 .


#18 shibushe

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 07:47

I've ordered 2 and need to get them fitted ASAP.  I will send some pictures of installation and report on how they perform.

Eddie. Look forward to seeing your installation, plus your opinion.



#19 The Bigbee Line

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 21:23

My parcel arrived today.  The DCC80 units are quite compact with just a few electronic components on the board.  I wired the 2 units to a couple of Peco O gauge points.  I had previously wired the switch and stock rails together with a fly lead to each loose heeled switch.  The wire link from the frog to the closure rails was removed and a wire soldered to the wire link under the frog.

 

sw0bp.jpg

 

Using the Roco DCC system the DCC80 switches worked fine.  As the locomotive entered the dead section you could hear a slight click as the relay operated.

 

sw010.jpg   sw011.jpg

 

Seem simple enough.  Forgot to mention, the loco is a Dapol Terrier with Sound.  That works fine with no hesitation when negotiating and switching the frogs. I did wonder if the sound would stutter, but it was faultless.

 

The feed to the track was connected with wires soldered to fishplates rather than direct to the rails, to enable changes to be made if required.  The wiring below is not in its final position

 

sw012.jpg

 

Pictures now uploaded


Edited by The Bigbee Line, 09 July 2017 - 21:38 .

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#20 Oldddudders

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Posted 09 July 2017 - 06:27

Interesting comments on the use of DCC80's - plan using some soon. Have you considered putting short lengths of "insulated" (on one rail) tracks before the point, at the frog ends, controlled via a switch/s on the bottom of Peco motors (if used) or micro switches on the tie-bar etc, the insulated section of track only being live if the point is correctly set for the route, if not the train stops on the insulated section rather than derailing and shorting the system.


ISTR a US product - was it the Hare? - that suggested doing as you suggest, but on the insulated gap being bridged, would trigger the point motor automatically, and by using changeover contacts on the motor, the frog polarity at the same time. The Hare worked with the Tortoise motor, hence the name. I think it may have been supplanted by the Wabbit, but am unclear on that or what the upgrade comprised.

Edited by Oldddudders, 09 July 2017 - 06:28 .


#21 298

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 10:13

ISTR a US product - was it the Hare? - that suggested doing as you suggest, but on the insulated gap being bridged, would trigger the point motor automatically, and by using changeover contacts on the motor, the frog polarity at the same time. The Hare worked with the Tortoise motor, hence the name. I think it may have been supplanted by the Wabbit, but am unclear on that or what the upgrade comprised.


That's certainly what a Wabbit does, I was going to use one to run against an incorrectly set turnout in a fiddle yard, but ended up using a Juicer and thinner section piano wire on the tortoise, and simply running through the blades.

#22 danic19

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 09:41

Hi not sure if any body will read this but I have recently been experiencing problems with my gaugemaster auto frogs.
The locomotives mostly come to a complete stop on the section controlled by the autofrog.
On the odd occasion the locomotive will not stop when getting to this part and as it crossed it you can hear the relay tick and the loco keeps going.
Here's a YouTube link showing you what's happening

Dan

#23 The Bigbee Line

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 10:59

Hi not sure if any body will read this but I have recently been experiencing problems with my gaugemaster auto frogs.
The locomotives mostly come to a complete stop on the section controlled by the autofrog.
On the odd occasion the locomotive will not stop when getting to this part and as it crossed it you can hear the relay tick and the loco keeps going.
Here's a YouTube link showing you what's happening

Dan

Dan,

 

Nothing is bullet proof.  How many autofrogs have you got and how many have the problem?

 

First check wiring (not much of it luckily)

 

Are the point blades wired to the adjacent stock rail?  If not you might be getting a short across a wheel.

 

Try pushing the loco without the wheels turning.  The autofrog will still operate.  You should hear the 'click' as the first wheel gets to the live frog.

 

Next step is trial by substitution, swap 2 over and see if the problem goes with the autofrog or stays at the same location.

 

Good luck



#24 66C

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 13:48

Hi Dan

 

The turnout shown where the loco stops is the entry to a loop!

Have you isolated BOTH of the frogs at each end of the loop?

What is the arrangement for the frog of the siding turnout?

I suspect your problem is not to do with the DCC80 but the isolating gaps and track feeds needed for the loop.

 

Can you post a diagram of your wiring and positions of insulated joiners?

 

Regards.



#25 danic19

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 14:09

Both ends of the loop are isolated with insulated joiners
I have 6 of the auto frogs all of them are on the layout
The point blades are not wired to the stock rails.
Both sides of the loop have dropper wires as does the siding.
The point into the siding is an insul-frog so it has no wiring.

Unfortunately I am out of the house at the moment so cannot try anything on the layout .

Thanks for the suggestions I'll give them a go when I am back at the house.

Dan







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