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Hornby Princess Coronation Class (Duchess)





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#1 Dick Turpin

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 17:08


I'm slightly surprised that a topic hasn't already been started on this, given some recent discussions around the old model and many comments made to the effect that an upgrade has long been overdue.

Well, as it now seems we are going to get one, I would have thought that there were many and varied detail point to discuss, as well as plenty to celebrate about the exploits of the prototype in anticipation of the product hitting the shops. Stanier in excelsis!
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#2 Dick Turpin

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 17:24


The Book of the Coronation Pacifics MK II, Allan C. Baker, Irwell Press, would make a decent Christmas read for a start!

#3 davidw

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 17:39

Can you point me to that topic. To me, the current version is very good. And only minimum work is required to make it really good. Ivatt version excepted.



#4 ScRSG

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 17:44

IMGP0533.JPG

 

Must confess to being a little surprised and disappointed by this announcement, but purely from a personal point of view. Having over the past few years spent a lot of time (and a not inconsiderable sum of money!), on a large collection of Duchesses and super detailed and modified them ensuring correct tenders etc. etc. (see City of Bradford thread elsewhere), I never expected Hornby to re-tool this model. I personally did not think that, in major dimensions at least, that they were that bad to justify this. I will just have to hope that my efforts at detailing etc. make them reasonably equivalent to the new model. The likely cost of the new version would definitely rule out replacing the collection I already have!


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#5 davidw

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 17:59

attachicon.gifIMGP0533.JPG

 

Must confess to being a little surprised and disappointed by this announcement, but purely from a personal point of view. Having over the past few years spent a lot of time (and a not inconsiderable sum of money!), on a large collection of Duchesses and super detailed and modified them ensuring correct tenders etc. etc. (see City of Bradford thread elsewhere), I never expected Hornby to re-tool this model. I personally did not think that, in major dimensions at least, that they were that bad to justify this. I will just have to hope that my efforts at detailing etc. make them reasonably equivalent to the new model. The likely cost of the new version would definitely rule out replacing the collection I already have!

Thanks beautifully done, ScRSG. If I had a windfall I'd possibly get a 46256 or hang around for 46245. As both appeared on the ECML with specials.



#6 jjb1970

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 18:07

This is another good choice by Hornby. There are a few models that have an appeal way beyond their nominap geographical area or time period. And these are in that group, along with locomotives like the A3, A4, deltic & HST train. Get this right and they'll pick up a steady stream of sales for many years I think.
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#7 Forester

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 18:08

Choice of 46256 shows a welcome return to intelligent selection of subjects by Hornby.

Another gap filled.

Nice job!


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#8 gc4946

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 18:13

Next year is the 80th anniversary of its introduction to service (in streamlined form).

 

It might be that Hornby wanted to produce the often-requested Ivatt variant, which hadn't been catered for with their previous tooling, so decided it was easier to start afresh and retool the loco.

 

 

 


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#9 Dick Turpin

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 18:14

Yes it was the 'City of Bradford' thread that recently drew comment on the body tooling issues, particularly the seam along the body top. I personally thought that the Duchess appeared pretty decent overall, with the exception of the front bogie pivot, and yes the top seam. Anyone, who like ScRSG has done, and taken the already accurate and most presentable model up a few levels should still feel most rewarded by their efforts. It is interesting, however, given that many consider the model to have been so good to start with, why they did take the decision to start again and retool a new one. I guess that with subjects for new models dwindling, the options are limited, so it's either retool or risk a competitor jumping in with a sharper more accurate version of what has always been key part of your range.
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#10 MGR Hooper!

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 18:23

Lovely...I think that this loco IMO was the most asked for to be retooled. It looks lovely!

I'm sure the LMS fans would be super excited
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#11 Ian Hargrave

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 18:35

Lovely...I think that this loco IMO was the most asked for to be retooled. It looks lovely!
I'm sure the LMS fans would be super excited


I believe most of us are,particularly with the long overdue inclusion of 46256. Little did I think from the window of a Pendolino on my way to the NEC as it passed the Think Tank museum wherein resides 46235 that Hornby had scanned their new Duchess there.I actually managed a seat too...wonders never cease.

#12 MikeParkin65

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 19:05

Problem with the current model is that it doesnt really stand comparison with most models from the last 10 year and thats wrong for such an iconic class. 

 

Improvements that the new model will hopefully bring should include addressing the smaller flanged middle driver, the total absence of the front frame detail, the 'see through' area between the slide bars, the crude front bogie, the missing brakes on the front driver, the flangeless rear truck (and consequent exaggerated swing of the rear cab even on 'reasonable' model curves) ,  the chunky tender moulding, the total lack of coal pusher detail, the too low casing over the middle cylinders, the smoke deflectors........its quite a long list.

 

I'll pay the asking price for this model if Hornby do it properly. 


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#13 melmerby

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 19:52

Picture of the new tool Ivatt version from Warley:

Ivatt coro.jpg

 

Looks like an EP.

 

Keith


Edited by melmerby, 26 November 2016 - 19:53 .

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#14 Brocp

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 20:38

It's about time it was included, for all we know too, the old tooling is starting to wear, as it's 16 years old next year.

Hopefully too Hornby decide to do the tender for 6253-6255 as they haven't been done at all in that time period.



So far, as I've mentioned elsewhere the "infamous" ledge is still present on the tender, the deflectors are still the same (yes it could be because it's an early ep but still) 6256/6257 had different front footplate leading edges (between defelctors and smokebox) compared to other "Utility" front end locos (the ep shows the standard version). These things can certainly be rectified easily at this early stage.

The list of positive changes I've seen so far though look very good though. Top feed looks dead on, middle cylinder cover is right, lifting rings, adjacent steps are correct. Bogie much better, front frames and detailing on them is spot on, the tender body has a coal pusher, i presume a fire iron tunnel, so has most of the detailing lacking on the old body.

46256 itself will sell like hotcakes I'm sure, fantastic and famous locomotive (Steam's one that got away?) Personally looking forward to a version on Bill in LMS lined black (why do i feel that will be in a train pack?)

Personally i don't agree with MGR Hooper! On the Duchess being the most requested retool, that would have to be for the class that preceeded the Big Lizzies.... maybe this time next year they'll be on the one we're talking about
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#15 toboldlygo

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 21:15

It's about time it was included, for all we know too, the old tooling is starting to wear, as it's 16 years old next year.

Hopefully too Hornby decide to do the tender for 6253-6255 as they haven't been done at all in that time period.



So far, as I've mentioned elsewhere the "infamous" ledge is still present on the tender, the deflectors are still the same (yes it could be because it's an early ep but still) 6256/6257 had different front footplate leading edges (between defelctors and smokebox) compared to other "Utility" front end locos (the ep shows the standard version). These things can certainly be rectified easily at this early stage.

The list of positive changes I've seen so far though look very good though. Top feed looks dead on, middle cylinder cover is right, lifting rings, adjacent steps are correct. Bogie much better, front frames and detailing on them is spot on, the tender body has a coal pusher, i presume a fire iron tunnel, so has most of the detailing lacking on the old body.

46256 itself will sell like hotcakes I'm sure, fantastic and famous locomotive (Steam's one that got away?) Personally looking forward to a version on Bill in LMS lined black (why do i feel that will be in a train pack?)

Personally i don't agree with MGR Hooper! On the Duchess being the most requested retool, that would have to be for the class that preceeded the Big Lizzies.... maybe this time next year they'll be on the one we're talking about

 

Hornby are going through their older super-detail (China built) tooling that is showing it's age, we've had the King in 2015, we've got 2 Pacific's coming in 2017 (one delayed from 2016) in the form of the Air Smoothed Merchant Navy (I know it's not been done, but stick with me) and now the Princess Coronation Class - both of which give common parts to others. So logically in 2018 the next full retool would be the A3 (current tooling is wearing badly) and the partial retools to update the Modified (Rebuilt) MN and the Big Lizzies.


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#16 Forester

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 22:01

 I never expected Hornby to re-tool this model. I personally did not think that, in major dimensions at least, that they were that bad to justify this.

 

People said the same about the updated Schools class, where the older model was one of the best traditionally measured and built up models.

 

But you can't beat scanning the real thing for accuracy and it is surprising what a difference it makes when you've been used to an older model to get a seriously accurate scanned one.

 

I now always replace older models if Hornby updates with a scanned one. The secondhand market remains very bouyant at the moment with prices rising all the time in step with the rising prices of new ones. I've made a lot of really excellent sales of older models (I admit I do keep boxes, even more carefully now so many models are being revamped) and they often go most of the way towards funding the new one, especially with the more sought after rarer editions - and they don't have to be LEs to attract healthy bidding competition. Worth getting in early with sales before the new models arrive, when many others will do it.

 

True a scan is only as accurate as the preserved/rebuilt loco. But in this case if they scanned City of Birmingham in its original paint how wrong can that be? :)



#17 Horsetan

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 22:07

Would be interesting to stand it alongside a Brassmasters one, when that eventually comes out.



#18 sirwilliamfrs

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 23:55

Well, obviously I'm pleased! I once saw 46256 alongside 46220 both facing south at Crewe in 1962, a sight I'll remember for ever. Great news about the Class 87 too, spiritual successor to the Duchesses.



#19 Andy Y

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 09:07

Some shots of the stereo sample shown yesterday.

 

Hornby_Coronation_2.jpg

Hornby_Coronation_3.jpg

 

Hornby_Coronation_4.jpg

 

Hornby_Coronation_5.jpg


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#20 60159

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 09:24

Oh dear, it looks absolutely fantastic, I'll have to have at least one - 46256 for a start.

 

eBay will be a big winner - there must be a huge number of the current models out there to now be shifted.  


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#21 Brocp

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 09:36

Wow!

#22 Froxfield2012

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 09:46

I apologise as I think I have posted versions of these family snaps before!  They were taken in August 1956 when 46256 was still in green with the early BR totem.  That's me in the school cap aged rising 9 years old, with two family friends!  I note that, at that time, electric headlights were fitted and it looks as though there were fittings for the speedometer on both the front bogie and rear driving wheel?  I am guessing that some (or all) of this was sorted out when the red livery overhaul took place.  Incidentally, would any manufacturer dare to model the tender with such a large (potentially lethal) load of coal?

 

After seeing the 3-D print at Warley yesterday I couldn't resist a "pre-order".

 

Camden 19_8_1956 a_small.jpg

46256_rmweb.jpg


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#23 Clearwater

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 09:49

Looking at the Ivatt version, I am struck by the (almost) straight footplate line. It's almost as if the designer was completing the circle of the Churchward lineage by going back to something akin to the original 4-6-0 designs

David
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#24 cctransuk

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 10:12

Some shots of the stereo sample shown yesterday.

 

Hornby_Coronation_2.jpg

Hornby_Coronation_3.jpg

 

Hornby_Coronation_4.jpg

 

Hornby_Coronation_5.jpg

 

Duly pre-ordered !

 

HOWEVER - could someone at Warley (Andy?) please pin down the Hornby reps. as to :-

 

a) whether the non-existent tender chassis 'shelf' will be absent on the production models;

 

b) whether the rear pony truck on the Ivatt versions will be prototypically pivotted with flanged wheels, not fixed and with flangeless wheels?

 

Thank you in anticipation.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.


Edited by cctransuk, 27 November 2016 - 12:02 .

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#25 Stevelewis

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 10:29

Not  sure  if I  have missed   this  but  is  there  any  info  re  material  used  in  the  mode'ls  construction,  ie  will Hornby  be  using  metal  in  the  body  construction  or  will  it  be  all plastic?

 

Presumably  there  will be  at  least  one  flywheel provided in  the  mechanism,

 

Hopefully  no  smoke  units  or  lights!  ( although lights  may  not  be too bad  if  they  are  switchable)









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