Hornby Princess Coronation Class (Duchess)

[coachmann]

Hornby's long-standing pelmet on the Tender chassis has been mentioned. Having gone to the trouble of completely re-doing the Duchess body, it is to be hoped it is standing on an old chassis and not the one that customers will get.  The signature of all 'Stanier' locos was bevel-rim wheels. My remark is probably surplus to requirements if Hornby attends to the wheels as it did with the B12.

 

I photographed this loco from various angles soon after its final repaint in 1962 and of course cabbed it. Who wouldnt! 

Edited November 29, 2016 by coachmann

[toboldlygo]

Hornby's long-standing pelmet on the Tender chassis has been mentioned. Having gone to the trouble of completely re-doing the Duchess body, it is to be hoped it is standing on an old chassis and not the one that customers will get.  The signature of all 'Stanier' locos was bevel-rim wheels. My remark is probably surplus to requirements if Hornby attends to the wheels as it did with the B12.

 

I photographed this loco from various angles soon after its final repaint in 1962 and of course cabbed it. Who wouldnt! 

 

If you PM our resident Hornby member (Islesy) - you may be pleasantly surprised

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... I really hope Hornby eliminates the Mazak and goes for either lead (=1.8 x Mazak) or tungsten =2.9 x Mazak) weighting...

You and me both in this liking for decent weight to supply the adhesion for traction, but I am sure your know that lead is out of the frame - unless manufacturing in Italy - because these are toys. This despite the fact that the boys buying such toys are unlikely to be seriously harmed by lead poisoning, and more likely to be pulled over into firm contact with the deck by the unexpected weight of their new toy.

 

There was some talk of tungsten castings to increase model weight a year or three back, but nothing seems to have come of it in OO RTR so far. That said Bachmann manage 14.5oz/400g in the 9F using mazak alone and there is still significant internal void space, and the Duchess' volume is significantly greater than that of the 9F: so I should think 600g can almost certainly be done with mazak. (Though selective use of tungsten would be welcome for small and hard to balance types.)

[Dick Turpin]

You and me both in this liking for decent weight to supply the adhesion for traction..

 

Are we going to seeing one of these on the East Coast then 34C?

[LNER4479]

I would have thought that there were many and varied detail point to discuss, as well as plenty to celebrate about the exploits of the prototype in anticipation of the product hitting the shops. Stanier in excelsis!

Well, despite my (current) RMWeb call sign, I'm happy to nail my colours to the mast and say this is - and always has been - my No.1 loco class.

 

I was born the year the last were withdrawn so, unlike some of you lucky ones, cannot call on any memories of them in ordinary service. However, 46229 became a firm favourite on railtour duty in the 1980's. We were on one of her Blue Riband 'record' setting runs on the S&C (Jan 1984), I filmed her climbing Shap (Scout Green) in 1995 and was lucky enough to have a mainline cab ride on her in 1996 (climbing up to Diggle on her way back to York from the East Lancs). 6233 (please put her back in her gorgeous Crimson livery!) is a worthy mainline successor and I was on one of her early runs up Shap in 2002 when we cleared the summit in 5 minutes from Tebay. Absolutely spell-binding.

 

As some might know, my 'last great project' is to be based on Carlisle in the 1950's so I'll be needing a fair few of Stanier's magnum opus. So this is great news for me.

 

To pick up on the comment above, I've always thought that it would be possible to have a model of each of the 38 such that no two were totally alike. I think the erstwhile Mr Jenkinson (another fan) listed no fewer than 12 different identifiable liveries. Then you have 3 different tender types, 4 different loco styles (streamlined, sloping smokebox, 'utility' front, non-streamlined), double / single chimney, with / without smoke deflectors - plus the final two. I did start making a list once - maybe I'll have to dig it out again!

 

Bring it on!

Edited November 29, 2016 by LNER4479

[Stevelewis]

Short train ? When running in ex-works from Crewe ,they could be seen trundling along on 3 coach non corridor stoppers between Crewe and Shrewsbury.

 

When  I was  at  my  first   infant/primary  school it  was  20yards  from  the  Manchester  to Crewe line 1/4 mile from Levenshulme North  station  when  we  lined  up  at  8.55  the  sound  of a slowly approaching  train  would  be  heard slowing  to  stop at  Levenshulme on  its  journey  to  Manchester London Road (  Piccadilly)

The  loco   was  usually  A Princess Coronation  or  Princes  Royal  sometimes  a  Scot  or  a   Jubilee  on odd occcasions  a  Black  5  the  common  factor  being  the  locos  would be  immaculate  ( Just  out  of  the  box  before   the  weathering  was  applied)  on a  running  in  turn from Crewe.

 

We  would  get  to  see the  same  loco  another  3  times during the  day, some  weeks the same  loco  would  appear for  several  days on the  trot,

 

Happy  Days  but  no  camera  ( I don't  think  they  had  been invented  then!)

 

******PS  was  6220  Coronation  ever  blue  I seem to  have  a  memory of  seeing it on  one  of  thee  running  in  turns in  blue? A more  distinct  memory  is the  Crown  above   the  nameplate

Edited November 29, 2016 by Stevelewis

[MikeParkin65]

 

 

It would be nice if Hornby could, as a livery option, pay tribute to Sir William, by including the yellow stripe,

depicting the loco in those final weeks.

 

 

There is enough nashing of teeth over electrification warning flashes without adding the yellow stripe!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Are we going to seeing one of these on the East Coast then 34C?

 One was allowed on at the end of steam for a special y'see. and I have a good mucker who likes these machines and all. I'll pilot it with the preserved Ivatt C1 or Stirling single to help it keep up.

[coachmann]

The yellow stripe was regarded at the time a disfigurement typical of an era where aesthetics had fallen from grace, as was driving diesels into a large sponge loaded with yellow paint. 

[toboldlygo]

The yellow stripe was regarded at the time a disfigurement typical of an era where aesthetics had fallen from grace, as was driving diesels into a large sponge loaded with yellow paint. 

 

And was on occasion applied by accident! The poor A4's that were stricken with it

[trevor7598]

There is enough nashing of teeth over electrification warning flashes without adding the yellow stripe!

 

If you portray them in 1964 they should have both.

[MikeParkin65]

If you portray them in 1964 they should have both.

My personal preference is final BR maroon (so circa 1960) sans electrification flashes which I will then add from the excellent Modelmasters range. Yellow stripe too narrow a time frame regardless of its aesthetic qualities I should imagine.

[No Decorum]

Question is which compromise do we prefer - fixed pony but convincing relationship between cab and rear frames or moving pony but non prototypical gaps twixt cab, firebox and rear drivers. I have been experimenting with my current late model (fixed frame) Duchess fitting a flanged Alan Gibson wheel. It works well going forwards but is trickier in reverse, especially negotiating points and cross overs. There is I think enough clearance to make this a working solution though with the announcement of the new model it is more likely to have the flangeless wheel refitted and be heading for ebay!  The worst possible solution to the 'pacific problem' is Bachmanns on the A1 and A2 - it looks awful from most angles.

I beg to differ on Bachmann’s A1 and A2. They are not ideal, granted, and I am neurotic about unflanged wheels, granted, but with a straight choice, I went for the Bachmann Tornado. I also have some Bachmann A1s and A2s but only one Hornby LNER Pacific (one was enough). It’s only a matter of personal preference. I believe thought is being applied to the problem, I hope to good effect. Dapol’s Black Label A4 is one approach which seems reasonable, although from my point of view the price is not.

[MikeParkin65]

I beg to differ on Bachmann’s A1 and A2. They are not ideal, granted, and I am neurotic about unflanged wheels, granted, but with a straight choice, I went for the Bachmann Tornado. I also have some Bachmann A1s and A2s but only one Hornby LNER Pacific (one was enough). It’s only a matter of personal preference. I believe thought is being applied to the problem, I hope to good effect. Dapol’s Black Label A4 is one approach which seems reasonable, although from my point of view the price is not.

We will have to agree to differ on this one as I also have Bachmann and Hornby LNER pacifics and find the Hornby better looking in this respecr. Its the distorted way the Bachmann frames spread out under the cab and consequent shallow axleboxes that spoil it for me - not helped I suppose by the backwards leaning cab!. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I beg to differ on Bachmann’s A1 and A2. They are not ideal, granted, and I am neurotic about unflanged wheels, granted, but with a straight choice, I went for the Bachmann Tornado...

 You are not alone, I'd take the Bachmann compromise over the Hornby every time. In time I can get around to replacing the cast outside frame in correctly positioned thin sheet with full depth Cartazzi box detail and steps, and not have to do anything about the wheel mounting. (Works down to 30" radius)

 

...only one Hornby LNER Pacific (one was enough)...

 Accidental discovery with the very neat Hornby Cartazzi frames moulding. With the insides carved away to permit a flanged wheelset in a pivoting truck enough side to side movement for my 30" minimum radius I was happy enough. But I had broken the bar across the rear of the frames moulding. On trying this loco on a set track layout, the wheelset simply pushed out the frame moulding, and it sprang back into place when it arrived on straight track. While that might cause the plastic to fail at the bend point if regularly repeated, it does suggest that lightly sprung hinged frames would work: 'perfect appearance' possible down to 30" radius - and maybe as far as 24" - slight compromise then visible on yet smaller radii. I'd buy that as a compromise. 

[MikeParkin65]

 

 

 Accidental discovery with the very neat Hornby Cartazzi frames moulding. With the insides carved away to permit a flanged wheelset in a pivoting truck enough side to side movement for my 30" minimum radius I was happy enough. But I had broken the bar across the rear of the frames moulding. On trying this loco on a set track layout, the wheelset simply pushed out the frame moulding, and it sprang back into place when it arrived on straight track. While that might cause the plastic to fail at the bend point if regularly repeated, it does suggest that lightly sprung hinged frames would work: 'perfect appearance' possible down to 30" radius - and maybe as far as 24" - slight compromise then visible on yet smaller radii. I'd buy that as a compromise.

 

I am having some success with an Alan Gibson flanged wheel on the current Duchess with a 36 inch minimum and whatever Peco medium points are. Needs to be dead slow reversing over the latter however. Have experimented with adding a phosphor bronze strip to 'push' the axle down which worked but had an impact on adhesion and therefore haulage capacity. But most likely now my current Duchess projects will go on eBay to fund the new versions.

[9402 Fredrick]

Went ahead & pre-ordered the two BR examples from Britannia Models, been needing to make a main line route based layout involving part of the WCML and the retooling of the modified princess coronation class pacifics is a good motive.

Edited November 30, 2016 by 9402 Fredrick

[Buhar]

When  I was  at  my  first   infant/primary  school it  was  20yards  from  the  Manchester  to Crewe line 1/4 mile from Levenshulme North  station  when  we  lined  up  at  8.55  the  sound  of a slowly approaching  train  would  be  heard slowing  to  stop at  Levenshulme on  its  journey  to  Manchester London Road (  Piccadilly)

The  loco   was  usually  A Princess Coronation  or  Princes  Royal  sometimes  a  Scot  or  a   Jubilee  on odd occcasions  a  Black  5  the  common  factor  being  the  locos  would be  immaculate  ( Just  out  of  the  box  before   the  weathering  was  applied)  on a  running  in  turn from Crewe.

 

We  would  get  to  see the  same  loco  another  3  times during the  day, some  weeks the same  loco  would  appear for  several  days on the  trot,

 

Happy  Days  but  no  camera  ( I don't  think  they  had  been invented  then!)

 

******PS  was  6220  Coronation  ever  blue  I seem to  have  a  memory of  seeing it on  one  of  thee  running  in  turns in  blue? A more  distinct  memory  is the  Crown  above   the  nameplate

 

6220 was blue originally, however it swapped identities with 6229 Hamilton between 1939-42 and for that period appeared as 6229, a crimson streamlined loco.  There is a chance you may have seen 6229 masquerading as 6220 in crimson during pre-USA tour test runs.  Coronation could again have been seen in blue between 1942-4 when it got the wartime all black livery.

[farren]

Like this you mean

[daltonparva]

6220 was blue originally, however it swapped identities with 6229 Hamilton between 1939-42 and for that period appeared as 6229, a crimson streamlined loco.  There is a chance you may have seen 6229 masquerading as 6220 in crimson during pre-USA tour test runs.  Coronation could again have been seen in blue between 1942-4 when it got the wartime all black livery.

When 6220 was renumbered as 6229 was it repainted to red, or did it stay blue as it would have been new at the time?

[Froxfield2012]

Like this you mean

Thanks for an interesting photo.  I suppose it is a matter of taste, but I really find the Duchesses in this form frankly ugly and consider the re-streamlining of Hamilton by the NRM as an act of vandalism!  I take some comfort from the fact that Stanier himself was unimpressed by the streamlining demands of the marketing men.

 

Richard

 

 

[MikeParkin65]

There is an interesting article in this months Steam Railway magazine asking how much interest their would be in building a new 6256 (and\or a Claughton). From the excitement on here for the new Hornby model wonder how many would be prepared to sponsor such a project. It certainly appeals to me.

[Horsetan]

There is an interesting article in this months Steam Railway magazine asking how much interest their would be in building a new 6256 (and\or a Claughton). From the excitement on here for the new Hornby model wonder how many would be prepared to sponsor such a project. It certainly appeals to me.

 

Given the moaning that sometimes accompanies the RRPs of today's models, it may well be cheaper for some people to fund a full-size new-build than fork out for a model.

[farren]

As much as the princess coronation is my altime favourite loco.and a ivatt rebuild would be great. If it's comes down to only one I vote for the Claugton. As we have 3 coronations. Even if two are stuffed!

[MikeParkin65]

Hopefully the Duchess would be as the BR version with late crest and in RED!!  6256 entered service in wartime black, not the best colour...

 

JF

Entered traffic in absolutely resplendent lined 1947 black with polished wheels, the works! In fact 6256 is a fine choice both for a model and rebuild as it carried every postwar Duchess livery in its short career. But BR Maroon has got to the the best