Hornby Princess Coronation Class (Duchess)

[MikeParkin65]

They could also produce 6229 Duchess of Hamilton in blue, if they wished, to make it 6 blue ones. (From when they did swapsies and there was a red 6220 and a blue 6229)

I wonder if Hornby will retool the up turned bathtub for the new chassis, use the old body on the new chassis or simply rest the streamlined version for now? From the number of streamlined released it seems to have been a steady seller.

 

If they retool I wonder if they will cater for the differences between the first 6 and the rest (most obviously to accommodate the different arrangement of the cylinder draincocks which changes the shape of the casing).

[robmcg]

I wonder if Hornby will retool the up turned bathtub for the new chassis, use the old body on the new chassis or simply rest the streamlined version for now? From the number of streamlined released it seems to have been a steady seller.

 

If they retool I wonder if they will cater for the differences between the first 6 and the rest (most obviously to accommodate the different arrangement of the cylinder draincocks which changes the shape of the casing).

 

I took the liberty of photo-editing such a model, though I confess I am not up with the detail of body changes with the first 5 Coronations.

 

Will remove if required.

 

 

Looks good with the new chassis, re-coloured version of 46256.  Flush-sided carriages would help, too!  What a great part of British railway history these were.

 

Cheers,

Edited December 20, 2017 by robmcg

[Robin Brasher]

If Hornby produced an updated streamlined Coronation would they need to produce some upgraded Coronation coaches to go with it?

[adb968008]

If Hornby produced an updated streamlined Coronation would they need to produce some upgraded Coronation coaches to go with it?

More LMS Coaches is a good thing, especially restaurant/buffet cars.

 

What happened to this stock post war? Did it just get subsumed into ordinary stock ?, if so there’s more livery options there too, meaning tooling up for the Coronation Scot set has more to it than 2 liveries in a boxed set.

Edited December 20, 2017 by adb968008

[Steamysandy]

More LMS Coaches is a good thing, especially restaurant/buffet cars.

What happened to this stock post war? Did it just get subsumed into ordinary stock ?, if so there’s more livery options there too, meaning tooling up for the Coronation Scot set has more to it than 2 liveries in a boxed set.

It was subsumed into ordinary stock.Ive seen a photograph ( by W J V Anderson?) of a train on the Highland line with one if not two of these coaches in it.They were distinguishable by the air conditioning ridge along the centre of the roof

[coachmann]

More LMS Coaches is a good thing, especially restaurant/buffet cars.

 

What happened to this stock post war? Did it just get subsumed into ordinary stock ?, if so there’s more livery options there too, meaning tooling up for the Coronation Scot set has more to it than 2 liveries in a boxed set.

There isn't a lot available RTR to form an accurate 1937 'Coronation Scot'....

Corridor brake first

Corridor first

Open first diner

Kitchen car

Open third diner

Corridor brake third.

 

Although they looked like ordinary stock externally, the interiors were vastly different. First Class compartments seated but two-a-side while te open saloons were equally spacious. The sets were laid up for the duration of the war at Horwich and Lostock Hall, and re-entered service in 1947 but not on set trains. Taking the 1937 and the rather more modern appearance 1939-40 sets as a whole, they were an embarrassment after the war, but the Central Division of the LMS stated it could use 23 of the 1940 coaches in set trains on Manchester-Southport services and could absorb all the non-gangwayed brake end coaches. The Western Division said it could use the first class articulated pair on one of the Liverpool-Euston turns and could place the third class coaches in the Wolverhampton-Euston service, but the latter were never used because of their low seating capacity. Some coaches eventually found their way into North Wales Land Cruise trains. The kitchen car pair were scrapped in 1952.

 

On a personal level, I saw a 1937 blood & custard corridor first in an Oldham-Loop working sandwiched between the usual non-corridor stock. The ducting along the roof gave its origins away. Whether it had been downgraded to third class I do not know, but it just might have been providing the only obligatory first class seating in the train. Rakes of ex. Coronation Scot coaches were eventfully stored as withdrawn in sidings near Holiinwood station (Oldham Loop) in 1959.

Edited December 20, 2017 by coachmann

[Francis deWeck]

I like to read MR reviews so that I know whether or not to like what I’ve just bought.

In somewhat similar manner, but in a different direction, I know what not to buy, courtesy RMWeb and MR. Sorry Hornby, now let me see,, no pairs of Duchesses - 2 too many, no pairs or more of WC/BoB, no pairs or more of Brits/Clans,, no pairs of A3's, it goes on. I have saved enough, and Hornby lost a little in sales. Still, each to his own.

[robmcg]

There isn't a lot available RTR to form an accurate 1937 'Coronation Scot'....

Corridor brake first

Corridor first

Open first diner

Kitchen car

Open third diner

Corridor brake third.

 

Although they looked like ordinary stock externally, the interiors were vastly different. First Class compartments seated but two-a-side while te open saloons were equally spacious. The sets were laid up for the duration of the war at Horwich and Lostock Hall, and re-entered service in 1947 but not on set trains. Taking the 1937 and the rather more modern appearance 1939-40 sets as a whole, they were an embarrassment after the war, but the Central Division of the LMS stated it could use 23 of the 1940 coaches in set trains on Manchester-Southport services and could absorb all the non-gangwayed brake end coaches. The Western Division said it could use the first class articulated pair on one of the Liverpool-Euston turns and could place the third class coaches in the Wolverhampton-Euston service, but the latter were never used because of their low seating capacity. Some coaches eventually found their way into North Wales Land Cruise trains. The kitchen car pair were scrapped in 1952.

 

On a personal level, I saw a 1937 blood & custard corridor first in an Oldham-Loop working sandwiched between the usual non-corridor stock. The ducting along the roof gave its origins away. Whether it had been downgraded to third class I do not know, but it just might have been providing the only obligatory first class seating in the train. Rakes of ex. Coronation Scot coaches were eventfully stored as withdrawn in sidings near Holiinwood station (Oldham Loop) in 1959.

 

I recall that here in New Zealand our luxury trains had deep luxurious leather seats for 1st class travel from the 1920s and 1930s and many of these carriages ended up on Wellington suburban peak-hour trains which supplemented electric multiple units. The 'carriage trains' as we called them were hauled by English Electric locomotives otherwise used on express trains and goods trains through long tunnels, and had an absolute menagerie of carriage types and ages, and I commuted for a time in the 1960s, learning which of the less-crowded services were best for my 22-minute 10-mile journey,  ah the luxury of a nearly-empty 1930s carriage still with deep buttoned leather armchair style seats, ample leg-room, dark wooden panelling, and a good view of the harbour as we travelled at 50mph.... sometimes overtaking cars which were crawling in heavy traffic alongside. heh heh  you could smoke, read the paper, and generally be superior.   

[adb968008]

There isn't a lot available RTR to form an accurate 1937 'Coronation Scot'....

Corridor brake first

Corridor first

Open first diner

Kitchen car

Open third diner

Corridor brake third.

 

Although they looked like ordinary stock externally, the interiors were vastly different. First Class compartments seated but two-a-side while te open saloons were equally spacious. The sets were laid up for the duration of the war at Horwich and Lostock Hall, and re-entered service in 1947 but not on set trains. Taking the 1937 and the rather more modern appearance 1939-40 sets as a whole, they were an embarrassment after the war, but the Central Division of the LMS stated it could use 23 of the 1940 coaches in set trains on Manchester-Southport services and could absorb all the non-gangwayed brake end coaches. The Western Division said it could use the first class articulated pair on one of the Liverpool-Euston turns and could place the third class coaches in the Wolverhampton-Euston service, but the latter were never used because of their low seating capacity. Some coaches eventually found their way into North Wales Land Cruise trains. The kitchen car pair were scrapped in 1952.

 

On a personal level, I saw a 1937 blood & custard corridor first in an Oldham-Loop working sandwiched between the usual non-corridor stock. The ducting along the roof gave its origins away. Whether it had been downgraded to third class I do not know, but it just might have been providing the only obligatory first class seating in the train. Rakes of ex. Coronation Scot coaches were eventfully stored as withdrawn in sidings near Holiinwood station (Oldham Loop) in 1959.

Wow Manchester-Southport, Oldham loop services, what an undignified end.

 

Though you could argue the 4-6-2’s themselves spending their days on preserved railways running tender first at 25mph is the same, though at least they are loved.

 

However should Hornby model them, we could have a decent Royal Scot, and an excuse for some on branchlines too ?

 

What livery did they carry post war ?, i’m Assuming those stripes are long gone.

Edited December 21, 2017 by adb968008

[MikeParkin65]

 

Though you could argue the 4-6-2’s themselves spending their days on preserved railways running tender first at 25mph is the same, though at least they are loved.

 

Nothing undignified about the appearances on heritage lines or the national network of the 4 (out of 5) survivors that have steamed since 1964 (46201, 46203, 46229 and 46233). 

[coachmann]

What livery did they carry post war ?, i’m Assuming those stripes are long gone.

Having been in storage for the duration of the war and a decision on re-entering traffic not made until 1947, I would presume they were still carrying striped livery. We do know the interiors were cleaned down and made fit for passengers again. If they were repainted, they would have got the new post-war maroon (darker than pre-war lake) and possibly straw lining.  Interestingly, some of the 1937 coaches ran on ex LNWR bogies.  I have a photo of one such coach and the bulbiron bogies look to be 8' wheelbase.

[Robin Brasher]

_{On plate 52 of 'The Power of the Duchesses' by David Jenkinson is a picture of 'Duchess of Atholl' hauling the 'Coronation Scot' set as part of the formation of the  'Mid-Day Scot' in LMS days. Not sure whether the coaches are blue or crimson lake.}

Edited December 21, 2017 by Robin Brasher

[adb968008]

Nothing undignified about the appearances on heritage lines or the national network of the 4 (out of 5) survivors that have steamed since 1964 (46201, 46203, 46229 and 46233).

 

I used to think that way, not having grown up in steam days. As my tally of preserved steam cops grew, mostly on preserved lines as I grew older I appreciated more the need for speed with the big ones.

 

I’m lucky enough to have ridden behind all the preserved Stanier 4-6-2’s (bar 46235) both on the Mainline, and on a preserved line I find the two are very different experiences... mile after mile of 46233 chugging away in the 60-75mph range really is a sound to be heard, I have very long videos from coach windows of this, where I just couldn’t bring myself to stop filming, even if my hands were freezing in February rain.. but 3 chuffs your out on a 3-4 mile trundle that covers 3 stops...is very different, though photography (and video oppys are good).

 

I was also lucky enough to ride Bitterns 1st 90mph (92mph) run in 2013.. on that trip The window was my place for the whole journey.

 

I did however have that “I remember when moment”.. a year or so back, I rode 50027 Lion, happily along the Mid Hants, which is nice as it’s a reasonable run, reasonable climb ... and then I realised last time I saw it, was 20 years earlier on a Waterloo -Exeter turn from Waterloo belting through Clapham, Wimbledon to Woking and on to Salisbury at speeds in excess of 75+ and other memories of other 50’s on Paddington Oxford at 100.. and realised.. 25mph just isn’t cricket for these machines... I must be getting older.

Edited December 21, 2017 by adb968008

[vitalspark]

For a bit of interest..original and new Hornby Duchesses.

 

My new Sir William after some cosmetic weathering.

 

A modded original Hornby belonging to another club member similarly treated.

This one would suit the purists as the rear truck is flanged and does swing!

 

The rear end has obviously been modified to Ivatt spec and the tender body is brass but the dimensions and level of detailing are very close.

 

Dave.

[adb968008]

Thanks for Coachman on this tidbit, I did some googling (and found a link right back to rmweb !), but thought i’d re-Share the rmweb pictures, turns out they made it through blood/custard and into maroon..

 

I like the thought of some articulated maroon coaches random in a rake of stock...

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/7319540226/in/photolist-c9Nyiq-oGHmpi-6iVxrY-nPjN3L-8TqeMR-cu7mp7-dQRbRv-9PsX9c-nPk1T4-aDUh8D-6URGRN-8TqeMH-cf9yiA-ArEpa5-aoQzJA-g3SobW-qkxcwH-cYbypw-e3bTfW-dvfQXk-bsCqYW-ccWzH7-ficNhh-FKWEfT-so8zdj-pAK5uY-ncniVF-oXbhc9-oY8oxf-oGHYuT-4JauU9-7jw7Ek-6XRwnL-gUk857-dmzqco-aDEDLc-bQ3Twi-rsGVer-o6PoF6-eKBLQC-dTcunQ-eNGD5H-fnrPys-aEmMsa-b3CHGc-4ANsQ5-dSY6A3-pfvEyd-aEmSyY-aE1iM6

 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/13798768865/

[coachmann]

Thanks for Coachman on this tidbit, I did some googling (and found a link right back to rmweb !), but thought i’d re-Share the rmweb pictures, turns out they made it through blood/custard and into maroon..

 

I like the thought of some articulated maroon coaches random in a rake of stock...

Very interesting 'find' there. I never saw the 1940 coaches ever. 

[LNER4479]

_{On plate 52 of 'The Power of the Duchesses' by David Jenkinson is a picture of 'Duchess of Atholl' hauling the 'Coronation Scot' set as part of the formation of the 'Mid-Day Scot' in LMS days. Not sure whether the coaches are blue or crimson lake.}

Apparently this was a booked working for the stock on a Saturday when the Coronation Scot didn't run as a separate train.

[adb968008]

Here’s another another, looks like an articulated brake.. ?

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8079/8279364254_e9343462cb_b.jpg

 

The round toilet windows certainly stand out.

 

Certainly not a lot of pictures out there, considering they must have been an unusual cop.

Edited December 22, 2017 by adb968008

[coachmann]

Here’s another another, looks like an articulated brake.. ?

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8079/8279364254_e9343462cb_b.jpg

To me, that image is very interesting as it enables me to make a direct comparison with the Mk.I roof just in the picture. The LMS Coronation roof was to a new profile unlike anything LMS and was quite a bit shallower due too to the deep cantrail. The only roof I can think of that would suit is the long in the tooth Triang Mk.I roof often found in CKD kits. 

Edited December 22, 2017 by coachmann

[daltonparva]

Rails have advertised 3 W Staniers, all listed as new at 249.50 + 2.00, but one is described as slightly sticky runner, one has broken speedo, one has loose footplate. ??? I presume they are returns, so seem a bit pricey.

[MikeParkin65]

Rails have advertised 3 W Staniers, all listed as new at 249.50 + 2.00, but one is described as slightly sticky runner, one has broken speedo, one has loose footplate. ??? I presume they are returns, so seem a bit pricey.

As Vitalspark has ably demonstrated above - its a good model but it ain't that much better than the old model (available for about £80) and certainly isn't worth £250. For comparison one with slight damage the the back edge of the cab roof sold for £166 on ebay last week

[robertcwp]

Having been in storage for the duration of the war and a decision on re-entering traffic not made until 1947, I would presume they were still carrying striped livery. We do know the interiors were cleaned down and made fit for passengers again. If they were repainted, they would have got the new post-war maroon (darker than pre-war lake) and possibly straw lining.  Interestingly, some of the 1937 coaches ran on ex LNWR bogies.  I have a photo of one such coach and the bulbiron bogies look to be 8' wheelbase.

I did see a photo of one of the 1937 carriages in a train at Euston c1947 and it was in LMS post-war maroon livery. It was an open but the number was not visible as only part of the carriage was in shot.

[coachmann]

I did see a photo of one of the 1937 carriages in a train at Euston c1947 and it was in LMS post-war maroon livery. It was an open but the number was not visible as only part of the carriage was in shot.

Maybe the preparation of these coaches for reintroduction into traffic in the summer of 1947 included repainting the exterior. They would certainly have looked rather odd in striped colours, far odder than the prestige coaches that ran in pre-war colours on the LNER after the war.

[Silver Sidelines]

Hello Ian
 
I guess you are not as wet as we are!

Apologies if this has been covered already, but the my loco body was loose from the front and sat a good gap above the cylinders. The front plastic lug seems to be about to break off and I wanted confirmation that it is fixed before I glue it back together.

My picture is not perfect but the small rectangular lug in the centre is “hinged” so it swings up and down.image.jpg

I used the picture below on my Blog, but just to the right of the lumps of lead is the plastic 'lug' that I think you are referring to .
 
Regards
 
Ray


Hornby R3555

[Silver Sidelines]

Yes Ian

 

I should have said - fixed.

Still dry....not even touched a mince pie yet! I have some catching up to do!

That’s the right bit though....the rectangular piece....it is not meant to move, right?

Sounds like it needs a few drops of Butanone (MEK).

 

Regards

 

Ray