South Wales Valleys in the 50s

[The Johnster]

The work on the flat is done, and the railway is back in a position similar to the one it left, but I am going to mount it a little further away from the wall so as to be able to get behind for cleaning.  More thought on the future of the middle board, and the state of play at the moment is a somewhat revised track plan.  The loop will be extended, so that there are no turnouts close to the baseboard join (although it should be many years before the layout is dismantled again).  Despite the extra room in the loop, train lengths are still going to be 3 coaches/10wagons and a van, as the fiddle yard roads are the same as before of course. The Remploy siding will be truncated and become simply a dead road on the end of trap points, perhaps with a derelict wagon rotting away on it, and a new Remploy siding and trap point will be laid, on the eastern side of the main line coming off the platform road just before the loop points looking towards the country end.  This will put it up against the slope of the mountain, probably a more likely location.  The scenic break moves back to just in front of the sharp curve leading to the 'new yard' fiddle yard, which will have a kickback road; 5 fiddle roads in all, another 4 feet or so of scenic, and an extra siding, albeit not much of one...

 

Pretty busy next week helping a friend sort out and redecorate her flat, so this work is scheduled for week after next.  By that time I might have got around to teaching myself how to post photos here; you may regret my doing this, because once started I probably won't be able to stop!!!

Edited April 24, 2017 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

Time some work was done on the layout, as it's now the week after the week after next, and some duly has!  New track is in position to replace damage and to re-interpret the middle baseboard.  This was the original fiddle yard, with a very short scenic section, a purpose now largely carried out be the 'new' fiddle yard, which is now of course just the fiddle yard...  The loop has been extended about 2 feet onto this board, with the proposed short stub siding in position; you can only get 2 wagons clear in there, and it will be modelled rusted, overgrown, and with an air of dereliction to it.  The new Remploy siding is in place, with a trap point, on the other side of the running line, and comes off the platform road just over the join on the station baseboard to give a reasonably amount of space (3 bogies) before the new scenic break which is to be a road bridge angled away from the viewing side.  I refuse to put a bus on this bridge...

 

The new track is only in position, and is yet to be glued down, painted, and ballasted, but pushing stock over it shows good clearances and smooth running; I do not anticipate it giving either electrical or running problems.  It might be fun to make the road bridge narrow and weight restricted, and provide a separate pedestrian footbridge to draw the eye away from the crudity of the scenic break.  Beyond the break, a new fiddle yard road is in place and glued down, consisting of a No.4 radius double curve leading from a turnout immediately behind the bridge. I do not fancy propelling autos on this road, so it will be the home for the B set.  This leaves me with 5 fiddle yard roads, an effective limit to future expansion unless I sleep in the garden.  There are already 5 locos and 5 trains for them to pull, and soon to be a 6th when I build my miner's workman's of Ratio 4-wheelers.  I did not expect the railway to become so fully stocked so quickly; it is only 8 months since I started, including the recent hiatus!  I have everything I need in the way of stock, and there are fortunately not many more things that I want.

 

Signalling will be replaced in new positions, the platform starter more or less where it was but with a shunting disc next to it to control access to Remploy, which will have to have a similar disc behind the trap point controlling exit.  The loop starter moves out so as to be just past the turnout for the new stub siding, this turnout being hand lever operated, and to protect the new trap point at the exit to the loop.  I am not entirely comfortable with this arrangement, forced on me by track geometry and space, as in most such real situations the stub turnout would act as the trap and be controlled from the signal box.  On the plus side, it means that the loop starter can be positioned on the correct side of the track as there is room between it and the platform road at this point.  I need to come up with a plausible back story to explain this anomaly; perhaps the stub once led to a colliery connection now removed and has been clipped and spiked out of use, necessitating the trap point; you don't often see clips and spikes modelled!

 

The destroyed splitting home has been replaced by a Ratio kit (yes, I know what I said about Ratio but what else is there?), not yet built, and it's logical position is behind, i.e. on the 'country' side of, the road bridge, which would obscure drivers' view of it otherwise.  I may model it 'from the waist up' to show over the bridge parapet, or be lazy and hide it with advertising hoardings.  Given my recent battles with Ratio kits I am not looking forward to building it!  I'll probably give it a go, but if I mess it up go down the hoardings route and it can exist in my imagination only!

 

Jobs pending now; fix, paint, and ballast the new track, wire up and test run, replace water crane, and signals in new positions.  New backscene mountain, and retaining wall for behind Remploy, which is to have a building part covering it's loading platform, this building to give the impressing of being 'stepped' up the mountain slope and possibly including space over the covered platform, something concrete framed and brick looking, built post-war and still fairly new in the 50s.  Suggestion of embankment coming off road bridge on the viewing side, and possible raised area between stub siding and running line.  Fence and gate for Remploy siding. 

 

I'm having to think a bit about the Remploy retaining wall.  I want it to be stone, but cannot square that with the assumed post war date of it's construction, and think it should be brick to match the building.   But I cannot think of an actual location where brick was used as a retaining wall in this way, to hold up a mountain.  Perhaps it needs to be concrete, ugh!, but definitely not breeze blocks!

Edited May 11, 2017 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

Good bit of progress almost by accident this afternoon.  I had fixed the new track over the weekend, and it seemed to take a lot more than the 24 hours suggested on the container for the pva to go off!  Painting was done yesterday evening, along with a session refurbishing an old Baccy 16ton steel mineral which was in MOT livery and has been repainted BR grey.  The reason is that it is another variant, having 'blisters' on the end doors.

 

So, this avo, I cleaned the paint off the rail surfaces, and was thinking about going up to Maplin's for some suitable cable to re-wire the layout.  Apart from the new siding, the controller has migrated about 100 scale yards towards Tondu, and the old cables will not stretch.  But it was raining particularly heavily at that moment, so I thought I'd have a go at test running with a cobbled up jury rigged system using the cable I've got.

 

Well, one thing led to another, and although the rained eased off to 'merely torrential', I have completely re-wired the layout successfully.  Some of the track connections are very crude, but effective, much like their builder, but this is of no matter as they will be behind the scenic break.  One feed plus two single wires to the 'further' rail on both the new sidings, and I can direct the current wherever I need it simply by switching the points; moreover, I can isolate locos on loops or sidings in the same way!  It is now possible to have four locos on the scenic part of the layout simultaneously, though the timetable does not call for such excess, and move only one at a time, with no switches other than the pointwork.  Who needs DCC? (that is not an invitation to a discussion about DCC).  A full test run, which sort of morphed into a running session, has proved everything to be working very satisfactorily; happy bunny reporting for duty...

 

Just to gild the lily I've installed the two starter signals as well.  The platform road one has been put at the country end of the loop close to the loop starter, so that a full 10 wagon coal train can be cleared inside it, and I am going to 'control' the Remploy turnout with a ground signal.  I'm putting the splitting home off until the scenic break bridge is completed; for now it is assumed to be out of sight beyond it, and shunting moves to clear it disappear into  the general unlit gloom of the fiddle yard.

 

Look forward to slower progress as I am now able to play with, I mean operate, the trains!  Ballasting and blending in of the new track is the next job; just watch me b*^£&r up my perfect running!

[josh_will]

I'm from Nantymoel so any help I can provide I will be happy to do so. Although I'm 26 so will not be able to give you first-hand recollections of the Ogmore Valley branch. I can tell you that the standard passenger stock arrangement in the 50s was a 94xx/4575 and one half of a b-set with an auto-coach behind it, and coal was usually moved by 56xx/42xx. Unfortunately I have always found it difficult to come by good photos and info, but I have always thought that my home village Nantymoel would make a great subject for modelling. I think that the Ogmore Valley was considered one of the lesser valleys and most info on South Wales concerns the Gwent area, but I hope your project can shed light on this fascinating part of the former GW network.

[The Johnster]

I considered Nantymoel, and Ogmore Vale as well, but the availability of photos of Abergwynfi and it's very atmospheric location were the final deciding factors.  You must know the real Cwmdimbath quite well I imagine, Josh, and it is about as remote and isolated as it gets in Mid Glamorgan up there; on the model, there is a pit off-stage and the trees are all gone for pitprops, so the mountainside is bare grass as this is the 50s and the Forestry Commission haven't planted their endless firs yet, but I have tried to emulate the narrowness and steepness of the valley, and the hemmed in claustrophobic atmosphere; the mountain rises directly behind the platform and the stream is assumed to be in front of the layout, with one's viewpoint being from the hillside on the west side of the valley.  Nantymoel is almost an open plain in comparison!

 

My passenger service is 'inspired by' Abergwynfi, and consists of a 64xx hauled (and propelled) 2 coach auto, and a B set with a BR standard strengthener, plus an early morning miners' workman's of Ratio 4 wheelers, first train of the sequence and a nod to the Cwmmer Corrwg-North Rhondda trains which were the last in the country to use such stock, followed by being the last in the country to use GW clerestory stock, and then GW 'Met' stock, these being drafted in because they were gas lit and the trains did not run far or fast enough to charge coach batteries for lighting.   As a nod to the Abergwynfi photos, I occasionally run my auto set with a 57xx or 56xx.  The 56xx is my usual coal train loco, and the pickup can be worked by either 57xx or 2721; a 42xx is on the shopping list, as is a Baccy 4575 if it ever appears and the mythical 94xx which looks dubious this decade...

 

Sadly, this is limited space modelling and there is very little opportunity to model anything outside the railway fence; no terraced houses, no Bethania, no pub, no non-political club.  I have to suggest South Wales Valleys by the use of sheep everywhere!

 

The 'half a B set and an auto' may have been auto-fitted stock; WR converted several Collett 'suburban' compartment brake 3rds to auto for South Wales work in 1955, with a single window cut in the end for the driver; there were some full 3rds with through auto gear to match them, which of course could only be used between an auto-fitted loco and a trailer.  Some were allocated to Tondu but the only photos I've seen of them are on the Porthcawl branch.  Hauling auto-fitted stock with non-auto fitted locos seems to have been not that unusual in the area, as photos of Abergwynfi show 57xx with auto trailers which of course they had to run around.  Tondu had a number of 64xx and auto-fitted 4575s, but perhaps not enough to cover all the duties.

 

B set coaches rarely if ever ran singly, though it would have been useful for modellers if they did, as the buffing gear at the 'inside' ends was designed for close coupling; the sets were permanently coupled and treated as one vehicle in that sense.

 

The 'middle valleys' are inevitably overshadowed by the sheer scale of railway operations in the Rhondda and eastwards, and I think have suffered in enthusiast following terms from having been the preserve of the GW and the subsequent lack of locomotive biodiversity, but I find them fascinating and with much to offer the modeller.  When I win the lottery and have enough space for a crack at Ogmore Vale...

[chrisf]

 

B set coaches rarely if ever ran singly, though it would have been useful for modellers if they did, as the buffing gear at the 'inside' ends was designed for close coupling; the sets were permanently coupled and treated as one vehicle in that sense.

 

 

 

It may help if I clarify this.  There were several types of B set.  The best known, thanks to Airfix and their successors, wee the pairs of E140 brake composites with 7 ft wheelbase bogies and their cousins E145 which had the same bodies but with 9 ft wb bogies.  These, and their predecessors E116, E129 and E135, were permanently coupled and had either special stubby buffers at the inner ends or none at all.  Then came the E147s,  Three batches of these were permanently coupled but the fourth batch was capable of running singly.  Some were formed into B sets and stayed together for life, others always ran singly and yet others were formed as B sets which were later disbanded.  Three more designs of non-gangwayed brake composite followed.  E157 were apparently not formed as B sets and I know nothing about E161 other than they existed!  The last type was E167.  There were three batches of these.  Two batches ran singly and the third was formed into B sets for the Plymouth district but some were soon disbanded.

 

Chris 

[The Johnster]

Many thanks for the badly needed clarification, Chris.

[The Johnster]

May I prevail upon the expertise and erudition of the site once more, says he as if it's going to be the last time...

 

I have a pair of Ratio 4 wheelers, all 3rd and compo, which will be part of a 3 coach set when I find a Brake 3rd in a local shop or give up and order online.  The idea is to run a miners' workman's with them as a tribute to the Cwmmer Corrwg-North Rhondda trains which were only over the other side of the mountain and were the last use of these coaches, as well as GW clerestories and Hammersmith and City stock, the reason being that electrically lit coaches did not get enough of a run on these trains to recharge the batteries, and gas lit stock had to be used; I think the service finally ceased in 1964.

 

I have so far been unable to determine what livery these 4 wheelers would have been in during the early 50s (IIRC they lasted until 1955).  I have assumed BR crimson and am painting them this weekend, but I have never seen photographic evidence of this or any other livery on them, and am chancing it a bit.  Photos of the clerestories show stock so filthy that it is impossible to be certain, but it looks like GW austerity brown, and the Hammersmith and City coaches were in BR 1949-56 crimson.  I reason that it could go 2 ways, firstly, I could accidentally be right, happy days, or secondly, I could be wrong and find that they were in GW 1942 all brown, GW 1946 chocolate and cream, or BR 1948 chocolate and cream, or any of the aforementioned GW liveries but numbered in BR style (coach liveries at this period are a minefield), in which case I'll have to repaint them, not the end of the world!

 

The roofs are going to be dirty BR grey whatever livery is used.

 

The first coat is on, and they look quite smart, which won't last long as they are to be quite heavily weathered, but very odd to someone who has been used to seeing these models in one form of GW livery or another, and mostly fully lined out Edwardian at that, for so many years.

 

Wonder what they'd have looked like in corporate image blue/grey...ok nurse i'll take the nice pills now...

Edited June 2, 2017 by The Johnster

[chrisf]

Some of them did make it into BR red, according to the Railway Observer.  Two were seen at Caerphilly in blood with W prefix numbers.  W2774 was a third to diagram S9 and W285 was also that colour.  I have no idea whether it was a third, brake third or composite.  The four coaches that worked to Glyncorrwg were apparently 2691, 2692, 2766 and 2775.  It is unlikely that they were red and highly likely that they were in a very poor external condition.  They had been replaced by three clerestories in red by the end of 1952.

 

OK, you ask, how does he know all this?  Simple.  A long time ago I invested in a run of the RO.  More recently another RMwebber asked about four wheel coaches and I collated the gen for him.  Like a lawyer [sorry, Ivan], I don't know much but I have a fair idea of which book to consult!

 

Chris

[Ian Smeeton]

Come on Johnster, we need pics!

 

Regards

 

Ian

[The Johnster]

Come on Johnster, we need pics!

 

Regards

 

Ian

 

Patience, grasshopper; they're not finished yet!

[Ian Smeeton]

Patience, grasshopper; they're not finished yet!

 

Are you painting them?

 

Watercolour dries quicker than oils.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[The Johnster]

You've come up with the goods again, Chris; thank you.  At least I have some numbers to go on now!  Blood'll do for now but I agree they'd have been in a pretty dire state; the photos I've seen of the clerestories show them pretty dirty and the H & C coaches were not much better. 

 

To be fair, this isn't entirely the miners' fault; North Rhondda was one of the first pits opened by the newly formed NCB and a bit of a showpiece; it had pithead baths and the men came to work and went home in clean clothes.  You get the impression that the railway weren't really that bothered about their miner customers, whose fares were already paid and who had no alternative; North Rhondda had no road access and was in wild country.

[The Johnster]

Are you painting them?

 

Watercolour dries quicker than oils.

 

Regards

 

Ian

Acrylics.  But then I've got to letter and weather them.  And then I've got to try and put pictures on a website that I haven't done it on before.  Patience, grasshopper; once I've learned how to do it you won't be able to stop me!

[Andy Kirkham]

To be fair, this isn't entirely the miners' fault; North Rhondda was one of the first pits opened by the newly formed NCB and a bit of a showpiece; it had pithead baths and the men came to work and went home in clean clothes.  You get the impression that the railway weren't really that bothered about their miner customers, whose fares were already paid and who had no alternative; North Rhondda had no road access and was in wild country.

 

Something that I've always found a bit puzzling: why was the pit called North Rhondda when it wan't in the Rhondda valley?

 

I think there was also a South Rhondda and a British Rhondda, which were even further away.

[The Stationmaster]

Something that I've always found a bit puzzling: why was the pit called North Rhondda when it wan't in the Rhondda valley?

 

I think there was also a South Rhondda and a British Rhondda, which were even further away.

 

Possibly because they worked one of the Rhondda seams - which extended beyond the Rhondda Valley.  The coal from the Rhondda No 2 and No3 seams was highly valued but presumably were so named because they were first exploited there so perhaps including the name in that of the colliery was also good commercial sense.

 

Many colliery names in South Wales occurred more than once although often with some sort of variation - fortunately the ultimate reference source compiled by Tony Cooke is at least scheduled to appear from Lightmoor Press by the end of this year (according to what they recently told me, it's been in the writing stage for longer than I can remember and will apparently come with a searchable reference dvd).

[Michael Edge]

It was the same in Yorkshire, lots of pits with Silkstone in their names, refers to the Silkstone seam not the village where it outcrops.

[The Johnster]

Possibly because they worked one of the Rhondda seams - which extended beyond the Rhondda Valley.  The coal from the Rhondda No 2 and No3 seams was highly valued but presumably were so named because they were first exploited there so perhaps including the name in that of the colliery was also good commercial sense.

 

Many colliery names in South Wales occurred more than once although often with some sort of variation - fortunately the ultimate reference source compiled by Tony Cooke is at least scheduled to appear from Lightmoor Press by the end of this year (according to what they recently told me, it's been in the writing stage for longer than I can remember and will apparently come with a searchable reference dvd).

 

The Corrwg pits connected eventually underground with Tower at Hirwaun and Resolven in the Vale of Neath; a look at the map shows that both are quite close if you discount the 1,970 foot mountain in between, which of course you can when you are underground.  In the final years of operation at North Rhondda, the coal was being wound at Tower but the men were still going down at North Rhondda as it was closer to their working galleries.  One of the last coal trains was a fairly spectacular runaway involving a Margam D95xx which took a bit of recovering!  

 

The Glynrhondda Tunnel, subject of a foot/cycle path re-opening scheme, passes through one of the seams, and the R & SB sold the coal that the tunnellers brought out when it was being built (can you actually build a tunnel?  While you are 'creating' a hole, there is nothing in the hole, that's what's makes it a hole, so you have 'built' nothing...).  If's final demise in terms of railway use came about when a minor earthquake on the Vale of Neath Fault (nowhere near as active as the San Andreas) moved it out of alignment; it had been used by the Bridgend-Treherbert Bubble Car shuttle, which then terminated at Cwmmer Afan and a replacement bus took you over the Bwlch to Treorchy.  Cwmmer Afan had a privately run licensed Buffet, which is still in operation and called by the name everybody knew it as, 'The Refresh'; worth a visit for the photos on the walls!

 

I'm rambling a bit now, like you do when you get to my age...

[The Johnster]

Still can't get the hang of attaching pictures, which is a pity because there are a few now, and some of them aren't that bad.

 

I'll try again later!

[Darwinian]

Johnster,

 

In the bottom corner of the reply box  there are two buttons "Post" and "Reply with Attachments".

 

Select Reply with Attachments and a new reply window should open.

That has  "Attach files" by a paperclip at the bottom left of the window.

Click on "Browse" to find the file you want to show and open the file. Once the file name is showing next to "Browse"

Click on "Attach this file"

 

The file will then appear (with a preview icon)  in a list of attachments under your reply text.

 

Move the cursor to where you want the file to appear in your post.

At the right hand side of your file name bar Click on "Add to post"

 

If you click on Preview post at the bottom (under the reply window) you should see your post with the image in place.

 

Click "Add Reply" to post it.

 

Hope that helps. It took me a couple of attempts to get the hang of it.

[Andy Kirkham]

 

The Glynrhondda Tunnel, subject of a foot/cycle path re-opening scheme, 

 

I do hope the reopening scheme succeeds. The Two Tunnels at Bath is a real asset and a great experience.

[Andy Kirkham]

I do hope the reopening scheme succeeds. The Two Tunnels at Bath is a real asset and a great experience.

And they have the plaque all ready (currently at Treherbert station)

Edited June 4, 2017 by Andy Kirkham

[The Johnster]

As is the Monsal Dale scheme.  I also wish the promotors the best possible with it, but it is a very different beast to either Monsal or the Two Tunnels.  It's a long way from one end to the other, the longest tunnel in Wales, especially if you're walking it, and the scenery is rubbish.  It is not in an especially salubrious area, either, and will cost a bit to run in terms of lighting, ventilation, and security to stop the local scofflaws dealing heroin down there.  

 

On the other hand the re-invention of the Afan valley as a mountain biking mecca has been highly successful, and may have some influence on this scheme.  

[The Johnster]

A new loco!

 

My local model railway shop, the good one, is knocking out Hornby 42xx in BR cycling lion black for £89.90 reduced from £119.95, and, as Tondu had a few of these big beasts, I bit...

 

Not had time to investigate it much yet, but quite happy so far.  It is the later type with separate smokebox dart, and has some very nice detail touches that I have not seen modelled before (of course I will now expect them on all future rtr models...), including some detail at the back of the smokebox saddle which would to most normal viewpoints be out of sight, and the two holes in the boiler cladding just behind the smokebox, which I do not offhand know the purpose of but are obviously to be able to get at something; I'm sure one of you will tell me!  A quick squiz inside the cab (not the easiest thing to get a good look at from outside even on the real ones) reveals a separate regulator handle; very nice!

 

The overall finish is good, and, as I am going to eventually renumber it with Tondu-suitable etched plates, I am more than happy to live with the printed number plates.  Caerphilly turned out some locos with painted plates in the 50s anyway, so it's not that unprototypical.  The cycling lion is nicely and sharply printed, as is the smokebox number plate and shedcode, 86H Aberbeeg with the loco in this livery but funnily enough the code was used for Tondu after 1961.  I will be giving the loco a general wash over with my weathering mix to tone things down a little, and the painted copper steam ejector pipes very nicely moulded beneath the cylinders will be blacked out; they are lovely but draw attention to themselves a bit.

 

I've run it up and down the layout a few times to check clearances and performance through turnouts, and it seems to not be a bad runner straight from the box, and very quiet, always a good sign.  With pickups on all 8 driving wheels I am expecting great things in terms of slow running when it has run in a bit, which will probably take a few weeks given that my locos do very low mileages.

 

I have found a few things to moan about, though, even if it seems carping.  A plastic bag in the box contains some detailing to add yourself; brake rodding, front footsteps, and a vacuum pipe and hose for the front buffer beam, the pipe already painted red, but none for the rear beam!  Not the end of the world, I am pretty sure there's one in a bits and pieces box somewhere that'll do.  There is a locating hole in the rear beam for it!  There are very nice turned steel buffers; I can live without them being sprung, but could they not have been blackened, at least the heads?  I am going to repeat my standard moan about awful plastic coal in a full coal bunker; please, rtr manufacturers, can we have these modelled empty so we can put our own coal in to a desired level; not all locos ran with their bunkers full all the time, or even most of the time.  I have yet to investigate the possibility of removing the coal and substituting something better, but in the light of past experience I am not hopeful...

 

Some of the moulded detail seems a bit weak and blobby, such as the lifting rings on the tanks, and the filler cap handles seem very fragile in plastic; better to have done these in wire, which is no doubt how mine'll end up when the plastic ones break off.  The very good bars over the rear cab windows are let down a little by the glazing behind, which stands out a tad proud on my loco.

 

But I'll live with these very minor faults.  She will be allocated to the twice daily coal train, which will hardly tax her as it only consists of 10 wagons and a van, and this will release my 56xx for passenger, pickup, or parcels work, general duties to be shared with a 57xx and a 5101.  Cwmdimbath is inspired by Abergwynfi, where 42xx were the usual loco on the colliery trips.

 

They were also knocking out 5205s in the same livery for £5 less, £84.95, but Tondu never had any of these souped up 2-8-0 tanks.  I am unaware of any visible differences other than the numbers on the models, or the real ones for that matter, but decided it wasn't worth taking a chance for a fiver.

Edited June 6, 2017 by The Johnster

[westerner]

Still no photos.