South Wales Valleys in the 50s

[Happy Hippo]

Found it.  Steam in South Wales by the late Michael Hale, volume 1, plate 84.  On 24th August 1959 5614 is shunting a rake of vans at Treherbert.  Those which can be identified are, in order, heading south from the loco:

 

Ex-SR CCT/PMV

Ex-LNER BY, aka pigeon van

Ex-SR CCT/PMV

Ex-GWR BG diagram K40, either W73W or W1179W

Ex-SR BY

Ex-LMS long CCT

and three other vans which are too indistinct to identify. 

 

The Fruit D from Aberdare LL reached Pontypridd attached to the 6.20 pm Aberdare - Cardiff Queen Street.  We are not told whether it was loaded or empty.  The Fruit D from Merthyr was attached to the rear of the 7.0 pm Merthyr to Barry in a very quick turnround at Merthyr.  Again we are not told whether it was loaded or empty.

 

Chris

Chris,

 

Have you ever thought of a career as a caption writer for railway photos?

[chrisf]

Chris,

 

Have you ever thought of a career as a caption writer for railway photos?

 

For some reason the other meaning of "career" comes to mind - to run downhill out of control.

 

Chris

[The Johnster]

.

You've never done anything to upset me.......so why should I introduce you to my wife John ?

 

Retaliation; I believe you may remember my ex Little Karen, from back in the day.  She was a quick witted lass, and sometimes very funny with a aptly timed mot juste, and on one occasion walking up Clifton Street and, finding a lad slumped unconscious in a shop doorway who had dined well but not wisely, came out in perfect timing with 'I bet he drinks Carling Black Label (I know you are old enough to understand this 80s advertising campaign reference!).

[7TunnelShunter]

There was a parcels train from Treorchy to Cardiff every evening except Sundays, leaving around 7.45 pm and arriving at Cardiff General at 9.28 pm via what is now called the City Line.  In the winter of 1958-59 it was booked to be formed as follows:

 

Siphon J, Treorchy to Carmarthen

Van, Treorchy to Sheffield

WR Van, Treorchy to Crewe [sX]

LMR Brake Van, Treorchy to Manchester [sX]

WR Van, Treorchy to Leeds [sX]

Van, Treorchy to Portsmouth [sX]

Brake Van 73 or 1179, Treorchy to Paddington

Fruit D, Aberdare LL to Paddington [sX, attached at Pontypridd] - Timbowilts, this affects you

Fruit D, Merthyr to Paddington [sX, attached at Pontypridd]

 

I recall from my own observations that the Siphon J was sometimes a Siphon G.  It reached Treherbert as tail traffic on the 1.30 pm Barry Island - Treherbert dmu from Cardiff.  The other vans arrived early in the morning.  One cannot help wondering what was conveyed from Treorchy to Portsmouth, or Crewe, or Manchester, or Sheffield.  I'm not sure how long this working lasted but I doubt that it was much beyond the mid-60s.

 

In [at least] one of my books there is a photo of a string of vans at Treherbert.  Let me see if I can find it later.

 

Chris 

 

Choir Boys ? 

 

We used to put them over the hump at STJ !

Edited March 2, 2018 by 7TunnelShunter

[chrisf]

Entertaining as the thought of humping choir boys may be, I suspect that the traffic was nothing more exciting than parcels post.  Now I suppose we will be wondering what was in the parcels ...

 

Chris

[Darius43]

They got EVERYWHERE

 

even Paris

 

Regards

 

Ian

 

Regards

Bet there’s a photo somewhere of one at Thurso and/or Wick.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Andy Kirkham]

There was a parcels train from Treorchy to Cardiff every evening except Sundays, leaving around 7.45 pm and arriving at Cardiff General at 9.28 pm via what is now called the City Line.  In the winter of 1958-59 it was booked to be formed as follows:

 

 One cannot help wondering what was conveyed from Treorchy to Portsmouth, or Crewe, or Manchester, or Sheffield. 

 

Could it have been garments from the Burberry factory?

[The Johnster]

Not impossible at all.  

 

I have a new item of NPCCS, a Dapol Fruit D in BR crimson livery.  It has had a coat of weathering and I rather like it despite it's faults.  It is a different model from the old Hornby Dublo derived Wrenn one I had years ago, with a better chassis and, I am fairly sure, a new body moulding which is very crisp and well defined.  Complaints; not up to the best modern standards with moulded brake lever, and I will be supplying my own lamp brackets.  And the roof is a funny colour (it isn't now because I've painted it grey), a sort of greyish off-white that I do not recall seeing on any railway vehicle ever.  The crimson is a bit light and fadey, almost pink, but this is not terrible on a wooden wagon that has seen a bit of service, and looks fine under the weathering.

 

Plus points over HD/Wrenn/previous Dapol; only fault with chassis is the moulded brake levers and I like the lower steps very much, buffers are much better, and there is more detail on the body, such as door retaining catches and label clips.

 

Reasonably happy bunny for £!8.50!  It is a versatile vehicle at home on freight, parcels, or as tail traffic on passenger trains.  Not just tail; IIRC these had steam heating and could be marshalled between the loco and the train in winter, and it's always winter at Cwmdimbath, or nearly always, so that I can imagine the steam drifiting up and mingling with the drizzle and low cloud...

[timbowilts]

Not impossible at all.  

 

“and it's always winter at Cwmdimbath, or nearly always, so that I can imagine the steam drifiting up and mingling with the drizzle and low cloud..”.

Have you been reading “The Citadel” again?

 

Tim T

[The Johnster]

The Citadel's description of the Valleys is far too upbeat...

 

Easter Sunday project was to get to grips once and for all with 2761.  This loco was bought very cheaply on the basis that it ran like a 3 legged dog that had been on the sauce and had 3 different length legs, and that whatever was wrong with it had to be fairly obvious and easy to fix.  I got running tolerably well but never for more than a short period.  The immediate thing to do was to clear a barely believable amount of gunge out of the workings, which got the loco to run tolerably, but never for more than a short time.  My conclusion was that the loco was too strongly sprung on the rear axle; this was not entirely incorrect as the rear of the loco could be seen to be sitting up a little.  

 

I tried removing the springs, which made no difference, so I put them back.  Hornby's service sheet for this model suggests that you can adjust spring pressure by trimming them, but I had little faith in my ability to do this without one of them pinging into orbit, and was suspicious ot the raw ends of the springs bearing on the rear axle (I did achieve some improvement by filing off the sharp ends of the springs).  The next part of the plan was to ballast the bunker too hold the back end down on to the track and improve pick up.  Even then performance was not acceptable for shunting and she was restricted to passenger work, not the most likely task for a Tondu 2721 in the late 40s or early 1950 (2761 was withdrawn from the shed 31/3/50) when she would have been in poor condition and eking out her days.  

 

But I gave her an occasional outing with the miner's workman's, Ratio 4 wheelers (the last of the real ones were employed on such services at Glyncorrwg 2 valleys over), and she seemed ok but still needed a lot of tlc and faffing to run reliably; I began to have more sympathy for her previous owner who had attempted to lubricate his way out of the problem!  Then she began to deteriorate, pick up apparently, and I put more ballast in her, blu tac in the tanks.  

 

In the meantime, I'd been working on the body a bit.  My defunct Westward 64xx supplied a chimney, dome, and safety valve cover, and I superglued the latter in place not realising that the glue had dripped on to the top of the motor, so the next time I took the body off for yet another pickup and wheel cleaning I ripped the capacitor and wires off the motor.  I said some naughty words at it.  Attempts to source a new motor online failed and I bought a secondhand J83 as a chassis donor; this ran even worse, but the motor was ok so I put on the original chassis.  Back at least as far as square one, but I still wasn't happy with her, and then she started running rough in reverse.  

 

Hence the complete make or break 'I'm gonna scrap you if you don't behave this time' stripdown yesterday.  While taking the keeper plate off, which I had done several times before, I noticed that the rear screw did not sit properly on the plastic face, and that there was play below the rear axle where there shouldn't have been.  The screw was fully home, but standing proud of the keeper plate.  A rummage in the bits and pieces tin found a similar but shorter screw, so when I re-assembled the loco having done nothing to it other than stripping it down, cleaning, and re-assembling, I used this screw and was able to drive it home so that the keeper plate is now firmly and correctly attached to the bottom of the chassis.  Apparently, there was a manufacturing fault and the hole was not drilled deeply enough in the first place.

 

Running is transformed, and is now good enough for any duty.  She is smooth, silent, and as good a slow runner as my other Hornby loco, a 42xx, which is very good indeed.  Lesson; don't assume the obvious, especially after the obvious solutions have repeatedly failed to work. She will take her turn on the pick up now, being a capable slow runner for shunting.  We got there in the end; £40 in all and a lot of faffing, but a proper Tondu prototype and a useful little engine.  You would hardly call her a scale model, and she dates back to Triang Hornby toy days as a tooling, but she is to re-appear in the catalogue in apparently unaltered form.  I like her, though, and she captures the Edwardian Pannier look very well.

 

But I have lost my old Airfix large prairie; I always assumed that this loco would eventually succumb to worn carbon brushes but the slide bars have given up the ghost.  She may yet be revived with a chassis donor, otherwise the matter is on hold until Dapol release theirs.  In terms of Cwmdimbath's timetable she is not the world's greatest loss, as she would have been a very rare visitor and the Rule 1 excuse of the parcels traffic is a bit thin, but I was very fond of her and had put a lot of work into her over the years.  

[The Johnster]

Atmospheric (by which I mean not very good and a bit grainy) shot of 2761 and 5756, correctly numbered Tondu engines, meeting at Cwmdimbath.  The time is early evening and it is before the end of March 1950 when 2761 was withdrawn from service.  The elderly pannier is heading the 18.15 NCB workman's 4 wheelers to Tondu, and the 57xx has arrived a couple of minutes ago with an early evening clearance for Remploy siding traffic.  The crew have apparently abandoned ship, but in fact the fireman has been sent to the signal box with the electric token key and the driver is attaching the lamps to the bunker brackets ready for the return run.  When he leaves at 19.10, just after the next auto turns up from Bridgend, the box switches out for the night until 06.00 the next day (or Monday), the signalman riding up on the NCB workman's which is the first train of the day; and the only traffic left this evening will be the final two autos of the day, the branch being worked 'one engine in steam'.  Based on the real timetable at Abergwynfi, the last train is a 23.55 from Bridgend where it connects with the 20.00 or whatever ex down Paddington, and the ecs departs at 00.05 (probably 23.56 in practice).

 

Taking Abergwynfi, a very minor station at the extreme end of a valley that was a bit remote to start with, as the actual example, it is astonishing to realise the level of service the railway provided in those days.  You could leave Paddington and book through on an evening train, and catch  a booked connection auto to whichever of the Tondu valleys you were heading for; I wouldn't give much for your chances of doing that on the bus from Bridgend nowadays, though you might get as far as Maesteg.  Car ownership is blamed for this, but I wonder if the traffic levels by public transport if the service was provided would actually be much different these days, as mitigating the car effect is the fact that more people need to travel.  The branch lines were regarded as traffic feeders to the main lines, but they were equally traffic distributors from them.  

 

The LNER's livery has put in an appearance on an extra long CCT, form Hornby.  It is due for a fairly intense weathering before entering service.  Not a bad model but not quite up to the standards of the Hornby Southern BY, which has proper lamp brackets and is I think a crisper tooling.  I am not going to do anything to the wire mesh covered toplights until I have seen what effect the weathering has had; I suspect that, once the clear toplights are as dirty as I reckon they mostly were in service, being too high for the quick wipe over by platform staff to see what was inside that was all most NPCCS ever got, it'll look pretty good as it is.  The roof is not quite white but very light grey, and may take a bit of work with the weathering mix before I am happy with it, but I am not going to use my usual cheat of painting it grey first, as I want a slightly different look for it.

 

Despite the 'modernity' of the long wheelbase, it looks antediluvian on even a 1950s layout, but I liked these old vans, some of which were still knocking about in my railway time in the 70s.  They are full of character, and looked as if they were survivors from the Silurian era by then, but were still putting in their day's work.  I was surprised when I was looking into them a bit yesterday on the phone in the pub on my way home from the shopping trip to find that BR completed a batch of them, and that had I chosen the crimson livery I could have modelled a new vehicle in my period, but I wanted the LNER livery to be token represented!

 

Also purchased an LMS 1920s livery grey 3-planker, as a chassis donor.  The recent cull of moulded handbrake lever chassis has left me a half dozen bodies awaiting chassis, and this, once blackened up, will sit variously under an LMS 5-planker which carries a couple of Peco cable drums and a sliding door ventilated van, in BR bauxite and unfitted grey liveries respectively.  The body can hold small bits while I am working on things.  Further chassis replacements will be of BR 'standard' 10' wheelbase ones.  The re-institution of these temporarily withdrawn wagons will mean that any further general merchandise vehicle purchases are pretty much luxury items by even my standards, except that I intend at least a token appearance of Southern livery.  This might be on a PMV, though, or even a B; I still have the body of an old Triang one which might not look too horrible with a bit of work.  It needs new bogies and underframe of course, a proper profile roof, and the raised planking lines filing off and scribing so that they are correctly recessed, but I have had it for donkeys years and refuse to give up altogether on it; there are numerous jobs that need doing before I look at it, though!

[The Johnster]

Just back from the Bristol show with the usual bag of goodies/overspending.   I have bought an early Mainline 61xx in BR lined black to replace my dead Airfix; I may transfer the number plates from the Airfix, which masquerades as 4159 in unlined green G W R livery (with the intention of numbering it 4145 when I can get plates for this loco, new to Tondu in 1946 in presumably that livery).  Not inspected it yet, but a quick test run suggests everything ok; not bad for £25 and it'll do until the Dapol comes out.

 

And there's a Triang clerestory Brake 3rd, the type that came with Lord of the Isle, not the later gangwayed ones.  Like the 4 wheelers from Ratio, these coaches ended their last workings on the Glyncorrwg miner's workman's 2 valleys over from Cwmdimbath; I intend to put new bogies on, work it up as much as I can, and run it as the brake for the miner's workman's with the 4 wheelers as I have been unable to source a Ratio Brake 3rd to go with them.  It will retain it's GW choc/cream livery, and for now will be the only so liveried vehicle on the layout, though another B set is on the shopping list.

 

Managed to get some more suitable etched number plates for some of my locos; 4581, 6408, and 4218 are all proper Tondu locos and I will now have 5 of them with 2761 and 5756 (and a set of numbers for Llantrisant's 1471).  As this makes 5 out of 7, I haven't made a final decision on the 61xx' identity, and I can justify some foreigners as the existence of the Cwmdimbath branch would have required more locos transferred to Tondu from elsewhere (at a rate of about i in 6), this is not bad going; I need to get on with renumbering some of my coaches!

 

4581 was fitted for auto working, and more trailers need to be acquired as 1 each for this loco and 6408 will look too short for valley working.  

 

And there are cast whitemetal bogie sideframes for the clerestory, and a pit prop load for a wagon.  

[timbowilts]

Surely the Dean clerestory brake third would have been in all over brown when demoted to use on workmens train duties? That’s how I intend tofinish mine.

 

Tim T

[The Johnster]

The one on the Glyncorrwg train, with a porthole cut in the rear end so that the guard could keep a lookout when propelling as a sort of ersatz auto, seems to have been in brown though it may just have been filthy, and I haven't ruled it out yet.  Certainly those white roofs have to go!

 

But I have a little rule 1 leeway, as the idea that extra stock needs to be allocated to Tondu to cope with the appoximately 10% of extra traffic that the Cwmdimbath branch would have represented, and a choc/cream coach in workman's service since 1942 is not beyond the realms of probablility, never mind possibility.

[Northmoor]

I really like the sound of Cwmdimbath (does that translate as Dirty Valley?).  From what I have seen you are modelling one of the least represented eras: BR pre-Modernisation plan, so no Mark Ones, Standard Classes and very few diesels.  It must be rarer than modelling 1966-68.

 

Rob

[The Johnster]

Thanks Rob!  Dimbath does not mean a lack of bathing facilities, though your understanding of 'Dim' in Welsh is correct.  A few years ago I was rather taken with a notice to dog walkers on Aberystwyth beach, dividing it into '<-- dogs' and 'dim dogs -->'.  The Dimbath is a real stream, a tributary of the Ogwr, entering it near the village of Glynogwr (itself meaning 'Glen Ogmore', Ogmore Valley), and runs up a steep and narrow valley into the hills to the north.  Cwmdimbath purports to have been a mining village at the top end of it, and would have been very hemmed in by the surrounding mountains.  There is coal under here, right enough, but mined from pits in Clydach Vale, near Tonypandy, and Ogmore Vale in the valley on the other side.  This apparent geographical impossibility is explained by the fact that the Ogwr river splits into 2 branches if you follow it upstream, at Blackmill to the north of Bridgend, an Ogwr Fach and Ogwr Fawr, little and big Ogmores respectively.

 

If you are ever in the area, a side road from the A 4093, Dimbath Lane, will take you over the little river on a small bridge and you can follow it for some distance by footpath.  It is a rare survivor of the sylvan loveliness that must have characterised all of the South Wales valleys 250 years ago, and spectacular in autumn.  On the model, of course, there is no such sylvan beauty; the trees were all cut for pitprops years ago and it looks the same post industrial wasteland as the rest of them.

 

The period chosen is particularly fascinating to me because of the large variety of liveries that can appear on the layout, and my deliberate policy is to maximise this variety.  But there are other attractions; there were still half cab panniers at Tondu in 1950, 2761 in black wartime 'grotesque' Caerphilly works livery, and when I get around to scratchbuilding pre-Collett auto trailers there is a huge variety of sizes and shapes to choose from.  

 

I can just about rule 1 justify a Barry standard 3MT on an excursion, but I probably won't...

[The Johnster]

Just come across this post and it raises a question for the experts. Would such a vehicle as an ex-Southern 4-wheel passenger brake van have been seen in South Wales? I’ve just sold most of mine as I didn’t think they would be appropriate for the Valleys or are you invoking Rule #1?

 

Tim T

 

NPCCS of all sorts spread itself about the entire network very shortly after nationalisation, firstly pool vans and then as replacements for vehicles in set rakes.  By mid 1948 they had probably become homogenous everywhere.  Southern PMV and BY were rapidly famous for being seen in any parcels train anytime anyplace anywhere, Martini vans.  

 

Rule 1 is invoked in the matter of the Remploy siding in order to include as much NPCCS as I can; I love 'em exactly for this capacity to include all sorts of BIg Four stuff on a small but busy South Wales branch.  Don't be fooled by the GW bucolic BLT stereotype; the 1960 WTT for Abergwynfi, inspiration for my layout, shows a full timetable with no spare paths between just before 06.00 and 18.00, flat out for 12 hours, and the last train turns up just before midnight, an auto from Bridgend, though I believe the branch was worked one engine in steam after 18.00.

[The Johnster]

Early afternoon low winter sunshine (real, through the bedroom window) strikes on the side of a short parcels waiting for the road in Cwmdimbath's platform having shunted the vans out of Remploy's.  A 42xx hauled coal train has just squealed and lurched to a halt at the stop board on the loop, and the parcels will be on it's way as soon as the driver gets back from the signal box with the electric train staff; the starter is already cleared.  Took this 10 minutes ago and it's started to snow now!

 

Natural lighting rocks, when it's avaialble!

 

This is the last photo of my old Airfix large prairie before it died.  I have acquired a s/h early Mainline in lined black to replace it, AFAIK an identical model as the Airfix carries lined black beneath several other liveries and the weathering; it'll do until the Dapol turns up.

 

More photos as soon as it is weathered and fit for service, likewise my new GW clerestory brake third for the miner's, though that might take a little longer!

[The Johnster]

5756 runs in with the first train of the day, 05.20 Tondu-Cwmdimbath miner's, not in the public timetable.  The photo is a bit underexposed to suggest a damp and dull morning and a feeling of routine boredom; just another working day half a mile underneath a mountain...

 

This will be the final form of this train; I have given up on being able to source a Ratio brake 3rd and the old Triang clerestory will do the job.  It is as yet unaltered, and surprisingly actually runs through my pointwork; the train is really running and not posed.  I like the overall look, but of course much work needs to be done on the clerestory.  We can get away with this photo because the incorrect bogies are not obvious, but those white roofs just look plain wrong for coach surviving in choc/cream into the 50s.

 

I have food to eat and an aquarium to clean and do a 33% water change on, but should be able to manage a couple of hours with the railway later; jobs are to have a good look at both this coach and the new s/h prairie, and at least slop an initial coat of weathering on them!

[chrisf]

Some choc-cream survived well into the 1950s - to 1955 in the case of some of the Plymouth - Saltash trailers - but that white roof has to go.  Gerry Beale's recipe for 'railway soot' would be ideal.  Mix dark earth and matt black in approximately equal proportions.

 

Chris 

[The Johnster]

It has already gone, Chris, under a coat of roof grey which will be weathered when I have done a bit more; the brown on the sides of the clerestories needs touching up first, and then the roof needs taking off to put compartment dividers and bench seats in, and glaze the clerestory.  'Railway Soot' will be ideal, a good coating of it over the whole coach!  Then there are the bogies...

 

I am undecided as to whether to retain choc/cream or go for an overall austerity brown.  The coach number is 2316 in GW Egyptian Serif, and I need to do some research into suitable coaches to model while avoiding the Glyncorrwg example and the porthole cut in the guard's end of it!  Early days yet, though.  I do not consider that I have to ABSOLUTELY tied to coaches working from Tondu, especially for this train, as the extra traffic of the Cwmdimbath branch had it ever really existed would have required stock to be transferred from elsewhere, about 10% of it I reckon as a ball park.  I will feel that I am not pushing Rule 1 too hard if most of my stock is proper Tondu allocatees.  It will need one of my paper clip lamp brackets as well.

 

Measured the Triang bogies up against my more recent Hornby and Bachmann B1s, and they don't pan out too badly for a 1960s toy.  The central bolster link where it protrudes under the middle of the bogie side frame is a little different, and I am working on the assumption that the more recent examples are correct.  For now, I'm just going to remove the tie bars and fit steps.  

 

I am currently working under the assumption that, as these bogies are riveted to the coach floor in an 'integral construction' sort of way (Triang were doing this from Rovex times, years before BR mk2s), I will have to retain the main structural components of them and fit new side frames.

 

Next job is new wheels, though.  I shunted it into Remploy's (this train is booked to lay over here to clear the rush hour traffic and doesn't go back ecs until 9.30) and the Triang flanges started running on my scenery a bit!   Mansells I assume.

[The Johnster]

Today's clerestorial developments are few and slow owing to a friend with problems we are trying to sort out, a thankless task that gets in the way of the modelling, but some progress is being made.  The roof is off, and the next job in there is to provide interior detail and weather the coach and roof before re-glazing and glazing the clerestory itself.  The duckets need lookout windows, couple of holes drilled and joined up.  Despite the Triang toy provenance of the vehicle, these duckets are actually represented inside, so I am thinking about an open window in the guard's compartment door and some detail in there.  

 

Work on the bogies so far has been to cut off the tiebars of the Triang B1s, fit Hornby wheels which work fine but must be replaced eventually with Mansells, and to measure up the wood that is to provide the footsteps, coffee stirrers from Sainsbury's cafe cut in half widthways, with the intention of making them a bit more like Deans, at least from a distance in low light with the wind behind you downhill.  The 24/7 whitemetal ones I bought to go under the coaches need a new floor to be attached to, and I am going to have to think about this a bit...  Might get an hour in the railway room later to do more.

[The Johnster]

These bogies are giving me pause for some thought.  I am reluctant to cut a hole in the floor to fit the 24/7 whitemetal ones which will of course have to be the ultimate solution, as making the floor good to accept the nut and bolt pivot that will hold them is going to be faffy.  It has to be done with regard to structural strength and ride height.  I would also like if I can to avoid the faff of setting replacement couplers at the correct height and spacing; there is some merit in trying to retain the old bogies.

 

I am considering attempting to modify the existing bogies, which consist of a top plate which is the part eyelet-rivetted to the coach floor, by cutting off the sideframes completely and replacing them with the cast whitemetal ones, using superglue to fix them in place.  They may require some fillet or bracket pieces for strength.  If this works, job done, but a failure is not catastrophic, it simply means a return to the position of using the complete cast bogies and fixing new couplers, and having to make good the hole in the floor.

 

The coach is now weathered and looking like it should in the early 50s used on a workman's.  Next job is the compartment dividers and glazing, superglueing the footboards to the Triang bogies, and she can go into service temporarily while I think about bogies.  Thinking, of course, requires a quiet pub and pint to clear the brain.  Then another 2 to fog it up again...

[Budgie]

I seem to remember that drilling out the eyelet-rivet is not too difficult, neither is fixing the holes in the floor.

[The Johnster]

Thanks, Budgie.  I was nervous about taking such a brutally large drill to the model, but am reassured now.