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Bachmann announce Midland 1P, Class 20/3, BEP buffet car, VEA, Prestwin and Carflat





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#576 mevaman

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 18:54

Bachmann are not in the business of mass production as the run for each model can hardly be called 'mass'! The majority of today's highly detailed locos are niche and bespoke.



#577 DropTheTap

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 19:14

Bachmann are not in the business of mass production as the run for each model can hardly be called 'mass'! The majority of today's highly detailed locos are niche and bespoke.

 

Versus someone who produces high quality, customized models for an individual consumer...


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#578 DRS Crewe On A Mission

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 11:56

Are you having a laugh? So retooling a body and a repaint, with a £20 increase is 'expensive?' Glad you aren't one of my customers.

 

The £20 price difference between two different locos produced by two different manufacturers was purely observational.

 

I never said that I wouldn't be buying a Colas 70 because of the price. In fact quite the opposite, I am hoping to buy one or two of them to run with the engineers wagons that I have.

 

My point is that the only visible difference between the original Freightliner 70s produced a few years ago and the Colas and Freightliner 70s due to arrive later this year is that they have the small air intake boxes fitted to the side. Although the Colas livery is also been produced this time that can't be classed as something that is different or an extra because every loco/model produced wears a livery. So in fact for an extra £20 all we getting different/more from what we can physically see is two small air intake boxes.

 

That's how and why I was comparing to the Dapol Class 68. It's nothing personal or against Bachmann because the locos that they do produce are of a high quality and I have a lot of their locos. I am just simply comparing what we are paying for two different locos.

 

I am really looking forward to the Colas Class 70 arriving later this year.  



#579 frobisher

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 12:34

Except that Bachmann are in the business of mass production, so it's really somewhat of a false equivalence.


Assuming everything else is equal - this variant having the same production and material costs, this £20 over 500 models is what, £10,000? This is definitely the right order of magnitude to cut the new body tooling that was needed to produce it. That would be looking to a single production run to recover the extra development costs. Future production runs will obviously have increased profit margin, but also some resilience against rising costs.
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#580 mevaman

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 12:39

I think that comparing Bachmann with Dapol is problematic. From my experience of generally poorer quality of Dapol diesel locos (colour, livery, electrics, lighting), I am very happy to pay proportionately more for Bachmann locos. You pays your money....
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#581 JSpencer

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 19:47

I think that comparing Bachmann with Dapol is problematic. From my experience of generally poorer quality of Dapol diesel locos (colour, livery, electrics, lighting), I am very happy to pay proportionately more for Bachmann locos. You pays your money....


Looks a good comparison to me. I find that Bachmann were not only generally better in quality than the niche players (Heljan and Dapol), they were cheaper too. Now the 2 big players have the most expensive RTR on the market.
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#582 Roy Langridge

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 21:26

The £20 price difference between two different locos produced by two different manufacturers was purely observational.

I never said that I wouldn't be buying a Colas 70 because of the price. In fact quite the opposite, I am hoping to buy one or two of them to run with the engineers wagons that I have.

My point is that the only visible difference between the original Freightliner 70s produced a few years ago and the Colas and Freightliner 70s due to arrive later this year is that they have the small air intake boxes fitted to the side. Although the Colas livery is also been produced this time that can't be classed as something that is different or an extra because every loco/model produced wears a livery. So in fact for an extra £20 all we getting different/more from what we can physically see is two small air intake boxes.

That's how and why I was comparing to the Dapol Class 68. It's nothing personal or against Bachmann because the locos that they do produce are of a high quality and I have a lot of their locos. I am just simply comparing what we are paying for two different locos.

I am really looking forward to the Colas Class 70 arriving later this year.


So the livery doesn't cost anything? I think you may find that statement is incorrect - it is called licensing.

Roy

#583 DRS Crewe On A Mission

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 12:36

So the livery doesn't cost anything? I think you may find that statement is incorrect - it is called licensing.

Roy

 

Yes the livery does cost something but that can't be classed as something new or extra that you are getting with the loco.

 

My point is that every loco has to come with a livery applied.



#584 Roy Langridge

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 13:25

Yes the livery does cost something but that can't be classed as something new or extra that you are getting with the loco.

My point is that every loco has to come with a livery applied.

You are missing the point, the livery has to be licensed (i.e. paid for). Do you know the Colas license costs no more than others? It has been indicated before that some licenses are more expensive.

Roy

Edited by Roy Langridge, 09 April 2017 - 13:25 .


#585 phil-b259

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 14:10

You are missing the point, the livery has to be licensed (i.e. paid for). Do you know the Colas license costs no more than others? It has been indicated before that some licenses are more expensive.

Roy

 

Indeed.

 

Modellers need to remember that every single paint scheme applied since privatisation is the intellectual property of the owner and cannot be reproduced without express permission of said owner.  Said owner is entitled to charge a fee of their choosing if they say yes.



#586 DRS Crewe On A Mission

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 15:48

You are missing the point, the livery has to be licensed (i.e. paid for). Do you know the Colas license costs no more than others? It has been indicated before that some licenses are more expensive.

Roy

 

 

Indeed.

 

Modellers need to remember that every single paint scheme applied since privatisation is the intellectual property of the owner and cannot be reproduced without express permission of said owner.  Said owner is entitled to charge a fee of their choosing if they say yes.

 

Yes I am aware that some liveries cost more than others because of the licensing but that aside £145 for one loco is still a lot of money.


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#587 Roy Langridge

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 16:41

Yes I am aware that some liveries cost more than others because of the licensing but that aside £145 for one loco is still a lot of money.

 

Funny, that isn't what you posted where you commented that the livery costs the same (or more precisely, that it does not contribute to the price difference). Oh well.

 

Roy


Edited by Roy Langridge, 09 April 2017 - 16:43 .


#588 Dunsignalling

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 18:00

You are missing the point, the livery has to be licensed (i.e. paid for). Do you know the Colas license costs no more than others? It has been indicated before that some licenses are more expensive.

Roy

It is also the case that every time a new livery is applied to an existing model, there is design work required in the same way as for any other partial retooling

 

Then it is necessary to transfer the design to the painting and printing equipment and ensure the output is as planned / expected..

 

Some colour schemes are more complex / difficult / expensive to achieve than others - a prime example was Hornby's LNER Teak Gresley coaches which reputedly required getting on for a dozen passes through the printer compared to two for the BR livery ones. Every additional pass increases the risk of defect and rejection.

 

Colas obviously isn't in the same league but I suspect that getting that pronounced colour change half way along the sides consistently crisp on model after model after model, may not be easy. 

 

John


Edited by Dunsignalling, 09 April 2017 - 18:02 .

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#589 MatthewCarty

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 18:59

Bachmann's website seems to have changed the status of the V2 from  §=On Order to cross1.gif=Out of Stock, does anyone have any idea what this might symbolise? I hope they haven't been cancelled!



#590 newbryford

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 20:50

 

My point is that the only visible difference between the original Freightliner 70s produced a few years ago and the Colas and Freightliner 70s due to arrive later this year is that they have the small air intake boxes fitted to the side.

 

 

 

There's als the fairly visible diagonal "crease" in the cabside. Only applies to 70001-70006. All since 70007 have flat cabsides.

 

Cheers,

Mick



#591 brushman47544

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 11:28

Bachmann's website seems to have changed the status of the V2 from  §=On Order to cross1.gif=Out of Stock, does anyone have any idea what this might symbolise? I hope they haven't been cancelled!

 

definitely not cancelled. may just be an error, but on one occasion the model concerned had arrived in the warehouse but not yet been added to stock for delivery to retailers.



#592 Black 5 Bear

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 13:42

Will we ever see the Class 24(1) in light of the superb SLW products ???

#593 Legend

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 13:54

Also I think SLW is holding his price despite Brexit. If I were Bachmann I wouldn't want to launch a product against an established model that's viewed very favourably. There wasn't competition at the time of announcement ,but there is now. In such circumstances even though they may have spent some money on it, I think I'd can it and use the resources elsewhere. After all they are not exactly decimating their backlog .
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#594 Ian Hargrave

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 14:49

Also I think SLW is holding his price despite Brexit. If I were Bachmann I wouldn't want to launch a product against an established model that's viewed very favourably. There wasn't competition at the time of announcement ,but there is now. In such circumstances even though they may have spent some money on it, I think I'd can it and use the resources elsewhere. After all they are not exactly decimating their backlog .


There can be no doubt that Phil Sutton's 24 is as good as it gets.It is light years ahead of the competition in every respect.As you say the price differential ....considering what you get out of the tin .....(Yes,I did say tin )...... is marginal.
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#595 Brian Hawkins

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 15:00

Will we ever see the Class 24(1) in light of the superb SLW products ???


To put in simple terms........nope.

#596 class37418stag

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 16:24

Hello everyone

I has searched online to find photo of OCA Railfreight distribution livery but can't find

Thank you

#597 Southernman46

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 21:51

Nope - they've been mostly Red (when new) and Dutch (in CE use) - might have been the odd loadhaul / mainline / grey one. This is pretty much the defacto source of liveries carried over the years ...........................

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/oca



#598 Matt

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 05:35

I seem to recall there is photo of oca in RFD (grey sides with yellow ends) in Chenoas modern wagon series books if you have access to them. Maybe not a common livery but believe there was a least 1.

#599 rob D2

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 15:47

That's sometimes the issue with blue box wagons.....one offs, so I can't buy ten and run them as a rake. Missing a trick a little.

As an aside I'm guessing DB schenker/ EWS licence is more expensive than others judging by the cost differential on upcoming class 66s

#600 Melly

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 10:50

Hello everyone

I has searched online to find photo of OCA Railfreight distribution livery but can't find

Thank you

 

Here you go. . .  . https://www.flickr.c...s-95910128@N06/