MarkSG Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Sorry, I've just realised that I misread the prototype dimensions! Make that 84mm long rather than 82mm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Even better, there's a full set of drawings, including dimensions in mm for an OO model, on, rather bizarrely, the Hornby website forum: https://www.Hornby.com/us-en/forum/j70-tram-locos-wisbech-and-upwell-tramway/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 Our research has been mainly done from primary sources at the National Railway Museum. Not sure why we're discussing the length? It's a tiny engine, and worth having an unskirted version just to see that valve gear move! (CJL) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Downer Posted November 23, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 23, 2017 Our research has been mainly done from primary sources at the National Railway Museum. Not sure why we're discussing the length? It's a tiny engine, and worth having an unskirted version just to see that valve gear move! (CJL) Ah, but the sheer glide-ability of the ones in skirts! I may need both. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted November 23, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 23, 2017 Don't suppose any of you fellows are getting an unskirted one and want to swap one skirt with one set of valve gear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Don't suppose any of you fellows are getting an unskirted one and want to swap one skirt with one set of valve gear It had occurred to me that a good variant on the trick of numbering the same loco differently on different sides, so that it appears to be two different locos in use on a layout, could usefully be extended here to have a J70 with only one skirt on. But I suspect that's not going to be easy to achieve in practice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidobill Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Does anyone have the dimensions of the model, particularly its length? Thanks Greg Very small. :>) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 It had occurred to me that a good variant on the trick of numbering the same loco differently on different sides, so that it appears to be two different locos in use on a layout, could usefully be extended here to have a J70 with only one skirt on. But I suspect that's not going to be easy to achieve in practice. No, I don't think it will. The skirted version will have a reduced amount of valve gear so that it fits within the skirts, so if you unskirt it, you'll need to fit extra valve gear parts to one side. I find that modern ready-to-run locomotives are best not - I was going to say "messed around with" but that's not quite what I meant. I'm just converting an Oxford Rail Dean Goods into an ex-MSWJR 2-4-0. It works as a cosmetic conversion but I fear the removal of the front coupled wheel set may have had a serious adverse effect on the running of the chassis. I'm thinking I'll buy two 'J70s' - one with and one without, skirts. I have at least one photograph of a skirtless J70 running on the W&U tramway, so the rules did get broken. (CJL) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 Very small. :>) ....but perfectly formed! (CJL) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Very small. :>) Or far away......... Did Father Ted make it over the pond? Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Very small. :>)Small=far away T.E.D...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffBird Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Ah, but the sheer glide-ability of the ones in skirts! I may need both. Talking about skirts, is the follow up to the J70 going to be a Class 04 fitted with skirts (e.g. 11102) to carry on the good work on the W&U tramway once the J70's were scrapped? Not a bad idea, I would think Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 25, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2017 ....but perfectly formed! (CJL) Looked absolutely lovely - the GVLR (Goytre Valley Light Railway) must have received one for trials at sometime in the late 1950s although I'm not yet sure which livery it would have worn on delivery ) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 It won't stop me ordering one, but the bolt heads holding the coupling rods on look rather large? Remember, it's an engineering prototype, not a pre-production sample. (CJL) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted November 27, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 27, 2017 I think that we are going to see a lot of dockside railways/tramways being built in the near future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 That is very impressive for 4mm. I do not know the prototype, but I wonder whether the surface of the cab floor would have been planked? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Remember, it's an engineering prototype, not a pre-production sample. (CJL) This thread has already started going down the same arc as the Stirling Single, with the first functional model greeted with a series of posts pointing out things that looked wrong. People need to bear in mind that one of the key purposes of an engineering prototype, in both modelling and 12 inches to the foot, is to be the starting point for iterative improvements. You expect it to be a bit rough round the edges at this stage, because you can't start to tweak the details towards the final appearance until you've got something to tweak. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted November 27, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 27, 2017 True, but if no-one points out any mistakes then that increases the chances of mistakes making it through to the final thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 True, but if no-one points out any mistakes then that increases the chances of mistakes making it through to the final thing. The purpose of the engineering prototype is to check that the model performs to the agreed spec and that the parts are capable of being assembled by human hands. Our two EPs (there are no pics of the second one -which is the skirted version with different gearing as we only collected it from Rapido two days ago) include all the various details but they don't necessarily belong together on the same model. The floor will be in accordance with the NRM drawings/photographs.I'm personally not sure whether or not they were planked. (CJL) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted November 27, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 27, 2017 Thanks Chris. What is the next stage? I know very little about commercial model production. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 As for my opinion, what promise. I will have to fit screwlink couplers, because let's face it a ruddy great hole through the cowcatcher isn't right at all... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted November 27, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 27, 2017 I would not be at all surprised if they had planked floors in the cabs. Pity Teddy Boston is no longer around to ask. As many will know, he spent a lot of time as an unofficial fireman on the W&U when a curate at Wisbech. I may have missed this further up the thread (in which case, apologies): 1) Are those doors hinged? I don't think they would always, indeed rarely, run with them open. 2) I presume we will be offered althernative cowcatchers without a big hole for tension-lock coupling??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 True, but if no-one points out any mistakes then that increases the chances of mistakes making it through to the final thing. The rough and ready aspects of an early engineering prototype aren't mistakes. They are a starting point for refinement. A significant part of that is testing out how easy it is to get from "rough and ready" to the final design (particularly for small detail parts which may need special treatment). It's also about making sure that the model performs as intended from a technical perspective (Does it run smoothly? Can it haul the loads you'd expect? Do the motor and gears fit properly in the space available? Does it need tweaking internally to allow for a DCC chip? Etc.) It isn't expected to be perfect, visually, at this point. What matters is that it's in the right ballpark, and runs properly. The place to point out mistakes (if, indeed, there are any[1] - which with Rapido's reputation I'd be somewhat surprised) is at the pre-production sample stage. That's where the visuals should, by now, be correct, and if they're not then that's the opportunity to correct them before final production. Until then, you can't really tell whether something that looks incorrect to you really is a mistake, or if it's simply an aspect that hasn't yet been refined. [1] Footnote: You also have to bear in mind that, in the absence of a real, full size example to check against, some things will necessarily be down to interpretation and interpolation. Engineering drawings of the prototype are an excellent starting point, but even they may not necessarily reflect the precise appearance of the loco as actually built (or anything that got changed during subsequent maintenance). Photographs, too, are just a snapshot of a loco at a particular point in time, and don't necessarily reflect what it looked like a year earlier or later. And we all know the difficulty of estimating colours from monochrome photos. So just because something isn't what you'd expect still doesn't make it a mistake - it may just be a different, and equally valid, interpretation of the available evidence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 I would not be at all surprised if they had planked floors in the cabs. Pity Teddy Boston is no longer around to ask. As many will know, he spent a lot of time as an unofficial fireman on the W&U when a curate at Wisbech. I may have missed this further up the thread (in which case, apologies): 1) Are those doors hinged? I don't think they would always, indeed rarely, run with them open. 2) I presume we will be offered althernative cowcatchers without a big hole for tension-lock coupling??? 1) I believe we've been told the doors will be hinged. There are plenty of prototype photos showing them open (or even half-open) https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=j70+locomotive&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjIkJ-l5N7XAhUFOxoKHTsvAI0Q_AUICigB&biw=1209&bih=596 2) Yes; or, at least, that's what it says on the product listing on the website. http://www.modelrailoffers.co.uk/p/57969/MR-201-MR-Rapido-LNER-Class-J70-Steam-Locomotive-number-68219 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted November 27, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 27, 2017 1) I believe we've been told the doors will be hinged. There are plenty of prototype photos showing them open (or even half-open) https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=j70+locomotive&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjIkJ-l5N7XAhUFOxoKHTsvAI0Q_AUICigB&biw=1209&bih=596 2) Yes; or, at least, that's what it says on the product listing on the website. http://www.modelrailoffers.co.uk/p/57969/MR-201-MR-Rapido-LNER-Class-J70-Steam-Locomotive-number-68219 Those photos seem to confirm what I thought. Doors would usually be closed when running. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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