Oxford Rail 2017 announcement at London Toy Fair (24-26 Jan)

[Roy Langridge]

Class 43 HST.

Not much else hauls HST coaches! Oxford have said they would match locos to wagons/coaches. The Hornby one is fine but could be improved. It's also unusual to have such an iconic and popular train only produced by one manufacturer.

If Oxford were to produce a class 43 and Hornby new about it, it would explain why Hornby have only one example in this years catalogue and why they made it a ltd ed.

But Oxford have not done / announced HST Mk3s yet. I know they have said they will do them, but they have also said they have a multi-year programme.

 

To do a new Class 43 would be a huge risk. Hornby's effort is not far away and would not take a lot for Hornby to bring it up to top spec. Oxford's loco releases to date have been a bit of a miss. They would have to be absolutely certain that they would miss by less than the Hornby effort.

 

My money would be more on the Class 86 and, dare I say it, Class 90. Bachmann's seems to be making little progress and Oxford may think they can beat them to market. These two both haul Mk3s, and the 90 is perfect for the sleepers that they said they would do.

 

Roy

[Jub45565]

There is always a possibility that they may go for another Yorkshire built industrial loco' as there is commonality in design!

 

Plus there must be scope for more pregroping wagons, perhaps a hopper?

 

Mark Saunders

 

Would that be the days prior to Jimmy Saville? (other people chased by operation Yewtree are, unfortunately, available).

 

Edited to add something useful - they could always reuse their new LMS coach underframes (from carflats) and create some push-pull coaches to go with Bachmann's Ivatt and Midland 1P tank engines.  (if the carflats are 57' that is, and if they're 60' then they can create a composite coach to make the period 3 LMS coaches that Hornby make actually useable in a rake!)

Edited January 12, 2017 by Jub45565

[Mark Saunders]

Would that be the days prior to Jimmy Saville? (other people chased by operation Yewtree are, unfortunately, available).

 

The wonders of not reading your own post and your computer has it as a correct spelling but pregrouping is not in the inbuilt dictionary!

[OOgaugeJaf]

As Hornby as the M7 and H

Dj has the O2

And now Bachmann the MR 1532

How about the G5.

I would prefer an A8 from a NER region tank loco. Much prefer a

J21 or J27

[Opelsi]

.........., and if they're 60' then they can create a composite coach to make the period 3 LMS coaches that Hornby make actually useable in a rake!)

 

I think Hornby really did miss a trick on not expanding their LMS coach range in the 2017 announcements.

Should Oxford go for this and get the livery match and detail right with the Hornby range I think it could be a major coupe for them with high demand and kudos (maybe even showing a bit of oneupmanship over their established rival in pinching something Hornby really ought to have done themselves).

 

This flip side I guess is that they could actually increase Hornby sales of too as the range as a whole becomes more desirable. Nothing wrong with Oxford getting a slice of the cake and in doing so making the cake as a whole bigger!

[Jub45565]

 

Should Oxford go for this and get the livery match and detail right with the Hornby range I think it could be a major coupe for them with high demand and kudos (maybe even showing a bit of oneupmanship over their established rival in pinching something Hornby really ought to have done themselves).

 

It doesnt necessarily need to fit in directly - if they went for a period 2 composite that has never been available RTR in any form, then it could be the beginning of a range of their own.  I've just looked at the Oxford rail site, and it looks like they are based on a period 3 underframe, but as long as it is rivetted the only difference that I am aware of is whether the corner steps are hung from the underframe (period 3) or a step board on the bogie (period 1/2) which would be a minimal change.

[wombatofludham]

Are you that old?

 

No, 54.  Although sometimes I do wonder.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...This flip side I guess is that they could actually increase Hornby sales of too as the range as a whole becomes more desirable. Nothing wrong with Oxford getting a slice of the cake and in doing so making the cake as a whole bigger!

 Since Bachmann dragged RTR OO locos and vehicles from toy to model, there's been a steady growth of both the size and quality of the cake: Hornby, Heljan, Lima, Golden Age, Vi Trains, Dapol, Realtrack, DJM, Oxford Rail, Rapido, SLW, quickly come to mind; and it looks like the same is now happening in OO track.

 

If OR - and indeed others - are smart, there are still plentiful niches to build their slice of the cake. Cleverest OR release for me to date, 6 plank LNER design general merchandise open. Every realistic layout based from 1923 to 1965 should have a few kicking around.

Edited January 13, 2017 by 34theletterbetweenB&D

[rembrow]

they could always reuse their new LMS coach underframes (from carflats) and create some push-pull coaches to go with Bachmann's Ivatt and Midland 1P tank engines.  (if the carflats are 57' that is, and if they're 60' then they can create a composite coach to make the period 3 LMS coaches that Hornby make actually useable in a rake!)

 

That is a superb idea. The OR announced carflats are on the 60ft Stanier coach chassis and when you think of it, would they tool up a coach chassis to just use on the carflat. There is the potential to produce the missing corridor composite, but also the less numerous brake corridor composite on the 60ft chassis. I have a couple of Dapol 60ft Stanier corridor composites, from the batches produced in recent years and have detailed the underframe, replaced the bogies with Bachmann LMS coach bogies and fitted flush glazing, so they look presentable with the Hornby stock.

[luke_stevens]

The 86 is almost "expected" so I hope it is announced.

 

A J67/J68/J69 would be a good small loco. If they've been working on it then announcement Jan, first cad Mar, Running EP July, decorated Sept and then out before anyone else announces their 2018 range?

 

Oxford seem to be quicker than H or especially B.

 

Luke

[farren]

I would prefer an A8 from a NER region tank loco. Much prefer a

J21 or J27

Now a A Class big tank world be a nice surprise. And one I wouldn't be able to resist. But I really can't see any of them being made as a RTR.

[Mad McCann]

I hope for their sakes they don't.

 

 

 

It's almost a certainty that Hornby are doing one.

 

 

 

Jason

I hope for their sakes they don't.

 

 

 

It's almost a certainty that Hornby are doing one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

Aye, and Elvis just rode past my gaff on Shergar...

[adb968008]

But Oxford have not done / announced HST Mk3s yet. I know they have said they will do them, but they have also said they have a multi-year programme.

To do a new Class 43 would be a huge risk. Hornby's effort is not far away and would not take a lot for Hornby to bring it up to top spec. Oxford's loco releases to date have been a bit of a miss. They would have to be absolutely certain that they would miss by less than the Hornby effort.

My money would be more on the Class 86 and, dare I say it, Class 90. Bachmann's seems to be making little progress and Oxford may think they can beat them to market. These two both haul Mk3s, and the 90 is perfect for the sleepers that they said they would do.

Roy

Theres a quandary though, without a class 43, does Oxford make the hst mk3' paint matched to the Hornby class 43, but then it doesn't paint match its other mk3's, or use the same pantones, but run the risk of the coaches not matching the power cars ?? Edited January 13, 2017 by adb968008

[ThaneofFife]

id find any calls for an improvement to be made on the current Hornby power cars highly optimistic (but I reckon those calls would be so few and random as to be safely ignored anyway) and dare I say it, totally unnecessary at the current time. 

 

the standard of the existing offering is really rather high indeed (but some will always find fault with any model) but when you look at current offerings of the class 86 or 90 I know where my money would go if I was a betting man placing a stake on what OR will do given those choices, moreso the 90 to replace the ancient current tooling but my head tells me the 86 is where OR should go.  Makes sense if they don't that Heljan have decided to rework theirs on the back of that rumour theres a new 86 somewhere "in the pipe 5 by 5".

[Unknown Warrior]

I hope for their sakes they don't.

 

 

 

It's almost a certainty that Hornby are doing one.

 

 

 

Jason

I hope the Caley 812 is not on Hornby's radar. Bachmann are the kings of complex pregrouping liveries and they have already done the Fairburn Tank (as preserved) in Caley Livery. Also Hornby are very slow to do preserved locos although they have done some. The decision to do the H Class in SE&CR Livery but not as the one preserved at the Bluebell I find totally incomprehensible. Incidentally so do The Bluebell.

 

Anyway do Hornby know where Scotland is? Afteral they are down in the Deep South. Bachmann do at least have a director who is actively involved in producing books on Scottish Railways!

 

My apologies for wandering off topic.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Unknown Warrior

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Oxford seem to be quicker than H or especially B...

 and D, He, DJM, etc.

 

This suggests to me the response I first heard when acting as best man at a wedding, in response to the groom eulogising the happiness he had found with his new wife. In broadest, loudest and gravelliest bass Scot's tones, (for most of the groom's family hailed from those parts) from the back of the very large room:

 

"Aye laddie, and wish you joy; now get some sea time in."

[scottrains29]

I am surprised that Heljan haven't fixed their 86 yet. They must have spent a lot on r&d, tooling, etc. The body only needs a few tweaks, the chassis was fine. Bachmann often fix their models after complaints about the first batch, eg class 37, 150 etc. I think if Heljan is going to fix their 86 they may be waiting for other electric locos to be released first as this could help sales, (if your are going to have a layout with OHL then you'll want a few different locos).

I therefore think it is more likely Oxford will produce a class 87, thinking Heljan were going to re-release their 86. Also, Oxford wouldn't have know about the Hornby 87 until recently.

[wombatofludham]

I can't help thinking you are more likely to get an 86 from Heljan in O gauge than OO.  They seem to have a very scattergun approach to their model releases which apart from a succession of freak diesels seems to lack much in the way of consistency.

 

I must admit I'm hoping Oxford take a shot at one of the the last remaining open goals of the AC electric prototypes as I suspect that the price will be very competitive based on their other models. 

[ThaneofFife]

one distinct advntage with OR does seem to be their pricing......

[phil-b259]

I think Hornby really did miss a trick on not expanding their LMS coach range in the 2017 announcements.

Should Oxford go for this and get the livery match and detail right with the Hornby range I think it could be a major coupe for them with high demand and kudos (maybe even showing a bit of oneupmanship over their established rival in pinching something Hornby really ought to have done themselves).

 

This flip side I guess is that they could actually increase Hornby sales of too as the range as a whole becomes more desirable. Nothing wrong with Oxford getting a slice of the cake and in doing so making the cake as a whole bigger!

 

As has been pointed lots of times, and in lots of places - not least by Hornby themselves they only have a finite amount of resources (money, staff and factory  time) available to them this year and they must cut their cloth accordingly. I'm afraid far too many people on here seem hell bent on comparing Hornby's 2017 range to its 2007 range - while simultaneously ignoring the rather dramatic financial events that have occurred globally in the interim and a rather disastrous period with respect to Hornby's top management.

 

So I put it to you that if you had wanted to see model X, Y and Z in this years catalogue, what would you have taken out to make resources available for your preferred item?

 

If Hornby have a good year - i.e.everything turns up as planned and consumers buy it in expected numbers, then Hornby may well be in a better position to increase the number of 2018 releases - which may well see further attention to their coaching stock range.

[wombatofludham]

As has been pointed lots of times, and in lots of places - not least by Hornby themselves they only have a finite amount of resources (money, staff and factory  time) available to them this year and they must cut their cloth accordingly. I'm afraid far too many people on here seem hell bent on comparing Hornby's 2017 range to its 2007 range - while simultaneously ignoring the rather dramatic financial events that have occurred globally in the interim and a rather disastrous period with respect to Hornby's top management.

 

So I put it to you that if you had wanted to see model X, Y and Z in this years catalogue, what would you have taken out to make resources available for your preferred item?

 

If Hornby have a good year - i.e.everything turns up as planned and consumers buy it in expected numbers, then Hornby may well be in a better position to increase the number of 2018 releases - which may well see further attention to their coaching stock range.

 

I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by Hornby's 2017 announcements, possibly helped by there being "something for me" after years of ugger ball for my interests.

 

I think if Oxford do fancy re-using their LMS underframe for coaching stock I would hope they'd do some Period 2 main line stock rather than yet more Stanier coaches.

[Mad McCann]

For my money, given they've done a handful of Scottish Mineral and coal traders wagons plus some LNER stock, is on an NB 'C' Class/J36.

 

You'll still knock me down with a feather if it appears though.

 

Dave.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... Heljan OO.  They seem to have a very scattergun approach to their model releases which apart from a succession of freak diesels seems to lack much in the way of consistency...

Funnily enough - and contrariwise - there's me thinking that Oxford could do a lot worse in carving out their niche, than by adopting a similar approach to Heljan.

 

I thought Heljan's OO diesel selection on their own account rational: which might be characterised as 'we'll try everything for which no centre motor drive competitor model exists or is announced, starting with the more numerous types'. So a 47, 26/27/33, 52, 35, 17. With those done all that was available without competition as Bach, Dapol and Hornby had built up their diesel ranges in parallel, was then a set of pilot scheme 'disaster classes' and prototypes for which there were no models present or announced; 15, 16, 23, Falcon, Lion DP2.

 

There are similar 'no current good competition' zones available to Oxford, in all of steam locos, coaches and wagons, largely down to a combination of old Bachmann and Hornby models lurking in their catalogues (the Dean Goods was a good spot in this respect) and some notable gaps in coverage South of the Trent. That's without even thinking about the humungous hole in coverage to the North. Are OR going to be brave and try the latter?

[JSpencer]

Of course a class 89 can pull Mk3s too.

[Mad McCann]

Oxford are looking at an open goal in relation to NE, L&Y, Furness, M&C and Scottish designs. Will they seize the moment..?

Edited January 14, 2017 by Mad McCann