Stevelewis Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Just browsing thro Feb 17 RM and I noticed that Hattons are now selling Heljan EM1 & 2 locos ( ex Olivias Limited Editions) Looking at their website they have quite a few in stock Priced £160- £165 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 This sounds like the normal price at which they were sold when introduced, rather than a special offer. There may well be a good few left, as the reviews of both models were less than flattering when they appeared. Specifically issues on roof shape, cab window shape and position and others if I remember correctly - there is a detailed thread on RM web somewhere. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 This sounds like the normal price at which they were sold when introduced, rather than a special offer. There may well be a good few left, as the reviews of both models were less than flattering when they appeared. Specifically issues on roof shape, cab window shape and position and others if I remember correctly - there is a detailed thread on RM web somewhere. John. Yes they never looked quite correct!! I used to see the real things quite a lot, my wife lived about 1/4 mile from Reddish TMD, and I clearly remember the day 26020 took the first revenue earning train thro' the Woodhead Tunnel, such a pity they closed it!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Yes they never looked quite correct!! I used to see the real things quite a lot, my wife lived about 1/4 mile from Reddish TMD, and I clearly remember the day 26020 took the first revenue earning train thro' the Woodhead Tunnel, such a pity they closed it!! They must have looked splendid in the lined black, sadly my parents only tied the knot six weeks before the new tunnel opened, and so I didn't appear in time to see that livery in service! Models of the locos in 4mm have never been totally nailed, and I guess Olivia's hoped to do this but appear not to have succeeded. I have a couple of Triang EM2's that have scrubbed up well with detailing, but obviously are not to current standard in terms of mechanisms although they suit me fine enough. Silver Fox/ DCkits did an EM1 kit that can be made to look rather nice, if you've seen the wonderful Deepcar you'll know what I mean, but needs some compromise on mechanisms. I've all but finished an MSL etched kit for the EM1, to be blunt a struggle at every stage which looks good but I doubt if the supplied chassis kit can be made to work properly, not by me anyway. I suspect the Olivia's ones might shift if offered at substantial reduction, but it would be a brave soul who took the knife to one at full price! John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 We will see when they get reduced to around £99!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slg Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Hattons stock nearly all Olivias limited editions, Bachmann 66111, Heljan class 58, Falcon, Kestrel & Dapol class 73 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 12, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2017 These models were real missed opportunities. I'd love a good EM2 especially, but these two models were rather disappointing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I have one of these Olivias EM1s,not quite right & the pantograhs can`t be made to work unlike my Trix & Triang locos.I have converted mine to run on Hornby Dublo 3 rail track using a marklin skate. Ray. And what you can do with tatty Trix EM1s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 These models were real missed opportunities. I'd love a good EM2 especially, but these two models were rather disappointing. The EM1s were overall correct as a model but has some daft errors, easily solved in the design stage by going to York, booking an appointment out or hours, paying a fee OR asking me in a nicer way for the LNER drawings. Sadly non of this was done so we are where we are!! As for the EM2, well as Chairman of the EM2 Locomotive Society, we might just know what one looks like, sadly going on a free visit to Butterley and 'Doing your best' probably explains the model ending up wrong, but to be fair, not as bad as the EM1. What I could not work out was that Lima did a better pantograph 20 years ago, so how the hell do we have this 'Thing' on both models roof's. Be honest, Heljan cannot do Electrics, the Class 86 is poor too with a rubbish pantograph. This aside I was talking today with Rapido Trains who are doing a US Electric, subject to agreement with ESU, with working digital pantograph, I suggested a good Class 86, done the Rapido way. Now that would show up the Bachmann 90 and the Hornby 87. Charlie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 The triang EM2 was a good model.If i can get mine to run on HD track under the Trix overhead, i would be well pleased. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted January 12, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2017 This aside I was talking today with Rapido Trains who are doing a US Electric, subject to agreement with ESU, with working digital pantograph, I suggested a good Class 86, done the Rapido way. Now that would show up the Bachmann 90 and the Hornby 87. Charlie Ooooo blooody 'ell, now 'e's done it, You'd think 'e'd know that froth and electrics are gonna cause a nasty short circuit somewhere Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 13, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2017 I'm not sure how a hypothetical Rapido Class 86 would show up models from Bachmann and Hornby that haven't been produced yet? Bit of an assumption there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 40-something Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I'm not sure how a hypothetical Rapido Class 86 would show up models from Bachmann and Hornby that haven't been produced yet? Bit of an assumption there. As good as Hornby/Bachmann models are these days, which is incredibly good, they aren't a patch on Rapido's offering. Take a look at Hornby's Class 60, widely regarded as being the best rtr UK outline loco, and compare it against Rapido's F40 for instance. No comparison for detail, but you do pay for it though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted January 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2017 As good as Hornby/Bachmann models are these days, which is incredibly good, they aren't a patch on Rapido's offering. Take a look at Hornby's Class 60, widely regarded as being the best rtr UK outline loco, and compare it against Rapido's F40 for instance. No comparison for detail, but you do pay for it though. Best RTR diesel surely has to be SLWs Class 24? Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Francis deWeck Posted January 13, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2017 Best RTR diesel surely has to be SLWs Class 24? Roy In Short, Agreed. And if good pantographs relevant to EM1s are wanted Mike Edge makes good 'uns. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 40-something Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Best RTR diesel surely has to be SLWs Class 24? Roy Oh yeah, forgot about that one! I should rephrase, the 60 is regarded as the best rtr loco from a major manufacturer! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I think the problem with these is that you run the risk of offering a non-UK manufacturer the contract. As a prototype, they are going to be marginal at best, done really well, they would have sold, but the Danish interpretation was just not good enough for the prices asked. I would have been tempted, but seeing the amount of work involved in getting them near prototype put me off! Interestingly, I believe Hattons made the same mistake with the Garratt. Olivia's have corrected the faults! Cheers,Peter C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John ks Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Here is an Electra that looks like a Triang, but Runs like a Bachmann John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Which Chassis did you use?. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John ks Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Which Chassis did you use?. Ray. A Shortened LMS 10001 by Bachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted January 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2017 Best RTR diesel surely has to be SLWs Class 24? Roy Currently,yes without question .One to remember,though long out of production is the FIATrains twins 10000/1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 13, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2017 I wouldn’t disagree with the proposition that Rapido provide an excellent product. I have their LRC and some accompanying coaches as well as an FL9 in addition to the APT-E. All are very good models. However to say that a Rapido 86 would show up the Bachmann 90 and Hornby 87 implies that there is a large gap between Rapido models and others which I really do not see if you compare on a like for like basis. There is a Bachmann 25KV electric which has been in their catalogue for a few years now which remains a superb model and certainly not shown up by any Rapido models I have or have seen. The Hornby 25KV electrics are antiquated so hardly a fair comparison, but if looking at the standards Hornby are now working too, which have recovered from their “design clever” phase, then I don’t see that they’re shown up by Rapido either. I am a European HO enthusiast and collect US HO locomotives and in most respects UK OO RTR is fully competitive with US and European outline. I also think that Bachmann and Hornby are fully competitive with the newer entrants in the OO market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Currently,yes without question .One to remember,though long out of production is the FIATrains twins 10000/1 There's a model from the history books! I only ever saw ones on display stands, the EM gauge people had them IIRC, not common presumably due to the £500-600 price tag, and the reported problem of traversing curves under 6ft radius. One thing I've wondered however, is how accurate they actually were. The data used by Bachmann came from notebooks of a member of staff at Derby who recorded all the detailed adjustments to these two prototypes, and subsequently the information appeared publicly in the Wild Swan LMS loco series volumes. However this was somewhat after the FIA models were produced, so their basis is presumably the inaccurate data available prior to the notebooks appearing? Must admit, I'm not planning on buying a FIA one to check...! John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost of IKB Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 If they ever end up in hattons bargain bin at £70 I'd have one, and accept it's not correct, but at 160 quid they won't be coming anywhere near my railway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted January 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2017 There's a model from the history books! I only ever saw ones on display stands, the EM gauge people had them IIRC, not common presumably due to the £500-600 price tag, and the reported problem of traversing curves under 6ft radius. One thing I've wondered however, is how accurate they actually were. The data used by Bachmann came from notebooks of a member of staff at Derby who recorded all the detailed adjustments to these two prototypes, and subsequently the information appeared publicly in the Wild Swan LMS loco series volumes. However this was somewhat after the FIA models were produced, so their basis is presumably the inaccurate data available prior to the notebooks appearing? Must admit, I'm not planning on buying a FIA one to check...! The price tag you quote is inaccurate and far too high. They were £400 new and I suspect would sell today for £250 + roughly.The first examples did have track holding problems but later ones are easily able to cope with 3 ft. radius.Accuracy ? Well I have to say it does it for me in spades. Then of course so does the Rails/Bachmann variant .....which be well aware is not cheap. In performance it's Bachmann standard motor v Canon. No contest. There were other sources of information and I'd be happy if you would substantiate that the FIA trains were built to inaccurate data as you hypothesise. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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