gelboy45 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Just received 2017 catalogue and note there is no trace of these. No sign of the 2EPB and MLV in N scale yet either. Looks like my hope of further Bachmann SR emus being shrunk in the near future is dashed............ Gerry ;O(( Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr chapman Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 The forceps are nice models. They've been rerun once I believe. Looking at what's available or planned in 00 I'd imagine that the BEP would be the most likely candidate for a new N unit. Just the buffet coach to tool up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I'd imagine that the BEP would be the most likely candidate for a new N unit. Just the buffet coach to tool up. I don't think that a 4BEP would be a good proposition in N. A small number of the prototype and if they just tool up the buffet car they'll perpetuate the issue of a poor choice in producing the unrefurbished CEP rather than the refurbished version. Unrefurbished had a limited time period, limited choice of liveries and were limited to just about only the North Kent lines. A refurbished version would have offered a longer time line in use, a huge range of liveries and a wider geographic operational spread to just about all of the third rail network. For a third rail EMU I would have thought a 2EPB would be a better choice. A long time in use, wide range of liveries and geographic operation plus as a two car unit would be cheaper than a four car set but can be formed up with other EPBs and even other 3rd rail EMUs to form longer trains. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr chapman Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Hell! I'd love an epb and mlv! In fact I thought they would follow the 00 versions a year after each. But they don't seem too keen to do it. Logically if they wanted to test a second emu I thought it would be easier to tool one dummy vehicle than a whole unit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Logically if they wanted to test a second emu I thought it would be easier to tool one dummy vehicle than a whole unit. I'm not so sure that they want to be 'testing' with full scale production runs and it won't be much of a test if it has limited appeal (and worse if it doesn't cover development costs). Far better to 'test' with something more likely to sell well, I would have thought. A two car unit is only two vehicles to tool up for (and an EPB could lead to other units). But, of course, there is no guarantee that anything will be popular and the buying public's behaviour can be quite perverse. After all who'd thought that ancient steam era coaches would sell and the decision to produce a class C 0-6-0 looks a little wobbly in my eyes. However, I do hope that everything sells well and encourages Bachmann/Farish to support third rail SR/BR EMU enthusiasts and all N gauge modellers rather better. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
msw2009 Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 I'm amazed and despondent in relatively equal measure that Farish still haven't committed to producing a 2EPB. I was interested to see that Bachmann's commitment to 3rd rail continued with last week's announcement of a 4BEP, but whilst I appreciate the argument about it being a new model that would only require limited tooling, I'm totally with Grahame on the potentially limited appeal of an unrefurbished version. Having said that I'd buy one (or 2) at the drop of a hat. The C class and birdcage coaches are both a bit of a gamble - although I read in one of the threads a quote from Ben A who was at the Bachmann / Farish launch that Farish were looking to expand the pre-grouping market. Wish they were looking to expand the 3rd rail one as well. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padishar Creel Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Hallo, I may not be aligned with the mainstream with the following, but I would prefer to see a 4EPB rather than a 2EPB in N, develop one coach sell two! And regarding the BEP CEP discussion, I used the Waterloo-Portsmouth line at the start of the 1990s and the fast were either 442s or CEP/BEP/CEP, the BEP was definitely refurbished, and whilst my memory may be playing tricks I think the CEPs were not refurbished? Can anyone confirm? es grüßt pc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 And regarding the BEP CEP discussion, I used the Waterloo-Portsmouth line at the start of the 1990s and the fast were either 442s or CEP/BEP/CEP, the BEP was definitely refurbished, and whilst my memory may be playing tricks I think the CEPs were not refurbished? Can anyone confirm? All CEPS refurbished late 70s/early 80s. Also BEPs refurbished although many had their buffet cars replaced and converted to CEPs. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padishar Creel Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 All CEPS refurbished late 70s/early 80s. Also BEPs refurbished although many had their buffet cars replaced and converted to CEPs. G. I know what my confusion was: here is a CEP as I remember https://www.flickr.com/photos/33106/5782927356/in/photolist-9P21Q5-rAcV5y-aPPqVa-ghR6WS-pQNdju-cwsCju-9Nq24Y-GYSQbX-81JzLb-pWVWPd-81EsMc-81JAH3-qJ8Tvh-dcMeVS-8367w1-e3pCNK-9Kass3-cYKmVE-dWroVB-gcg38C-b8Pvy8-nKmLpW-8tU5HF-dJQaYB-qmiAF4-knq9j-9Nnjpx-e7mjPA-5CZE83-6jM3dt-kZtP4W-o6BxbM-d6q7D9-no51dD-qejNJM-5CVk1c-g96fwk-qvnFTB-fSeN2M-eSQKd1-qxNn6P-rhRUaH-eU8oTh-qmBoJL-dGiz2X-bWSoqK-raTF3t-qgwufe-9S7e4L-e1QVmg and the BEP as I remember https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelwadman/26378211672/ The BEP was more "plastic" inside than the CEP and the windows had been rebuilt. The CEP was more to my liking Again, thanks to Grahame for the info es grüßt pc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 15, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2017 I'm afraid that 4-CEP is actually a 4-Cig. These were the next design of EMU after the CEPs, initially for the Brighton Main Line (IG was the LBSCR telegraphic code for Brighton) but the second batch were to replace the Cors, principally on the Portsmouth line. It was earlier suggested that the original CEPs only really worked in North Kent. Not so. While the first phase of Kent Coast Electrification certainly covered the former LCDR routes, the second phase took in the remaining, largely ex-SER routes via Tonbridge, Ashford, Canterbury West and Folkestone. The CEPs worked all these routes, with the depot at Ramsgate serving all the morning peak trains to London. The CEPs worked in original form into the early '80s in successively green, blue and blue/grey liveries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padishar Creel Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 thanks for correcting me. As we say here in Germany, "you live to be old as a cow, and you never stop learning"!! es grüßt pc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 15, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2017 thanks for correcting me. As we say here in Germany, "you live to be old as a cow, and you never stop learning"!! es grüßt pc You do very well with being knowledgable on an overseas railway's rolling stock! I grew up with these units, collecting numbers etc, so their history is very familiar. Then worked on the South Eastern Division for more than a decade. And, trust me, I still learn a lot about things I thought I knew! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 It was earlier suggested that the original CEPs only really worked in North Kent. Not so. While the first phase of Kent Coast Electrification certainly covered the former LCDR rafieldthe second phase took in the remaining, largely ex-SER routes via Tonbridge, Ashford, Canterbury West and Folkestone. My apologies. Probably a poor choice of geographic generalisation description. North Kent in that context meaning north of the Weald (another amorphous area) which would include Ashford, Canterbury and Folkestone. But in my limited understanding being roughly just one of the three divisions of the Southern whereas later (after refurbishment) CEPs could be seen operating more widespread. Living in Herne Bay as a young child in the early 60s and at school in late 60s/early 70s in the Medway towns I remember the CEPs on the North Kent Coast lines. My understanding is that it wasn't until later that they were used further afield to Brighton (central Division?) And SW out of Waterloo to Portsmouth, by when (at the time they finally got retired) I was living in Byfleet (via a lot of other places in SR territory) on those lines. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 There was a batch of unrefurbished CEPs and BEPs (the lowest-numbered ones) allocated to Brighton, see e.g. http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/features/historical-features/fleet_cor.html where it says: Early in 1964, CEP/BEP stock displaced the Cor/Buf fleet from the Victoria-Bognor/Portsmouth expresses and they were still there when I started spotting in Kent in the late 70s, 7101-12 and 7001-? So something like a 15-year period when the unrefurbished ones could regularly be seen in Sussex etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium acg5324 Posted January 15, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2017 There was a batch of unrefurbished CEPs and BEPs (the lowest-numbered ones) allocated to Brighton, see e.g. http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/features/historical-features/fleet_cor.html where it says: and they were still there when I started spotting in Kent in the late 70s, 7101-12 and 7001-? So something like a 15-year period when the unrefurbished ones could regularly be seen in Sussex etc. They certainly worked some peak time services out of Brighton too 7151 Brighton http://andygibbs.zenfolio.com/p726940309/h2e075a1b#h2e075a1b 7006 Bognor http://andygibbs.zenfolio.com/p870637404/h5f368377#h5f368377 Unidentified at Brighton, possibly a 4BEP http://andygibbs.zenfolio.com/p726940309/h128352ff#h128352ff 7111 Preston Park http://andygibbs.zenfolio.com/p726940309/h14b67bb8#h14b67bb8 7018 South Croydon http://andygibbs.zenfolio.com/p870637404/h27dfe585#h27dfe585 7017 Brighton http://andygibbs.zenfolio.com/p56600448/h3a6f79cd#h3a6f79cd 7004 rather bent at Horsham http://andygibbs.zenfolio.com/p111921591/h2c37145#h2c37145 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I don't think that a 4BEP would be a good proposition in N. A small number of the prototype and if they just tool up the buffet car they'll perpetuate the issue of a poor choice in producing the unrefurbished CEP rather than the refurbished version. I'd disagree for exactly that reason They only need tool up one more vehicle to produce a supporting unit for one they already produce. If that vehicle is then tooled up, then if the refurbished CEP tooling is produced they can produce the 4TEP which was a feature for a reasonable period of time with ease. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted January 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2017 In the late 80's/ealry 90's when I worked in an office in Feltham, you'd get the occasional 4BEP on workings to Ascot in 1st week of June as they tried to muster anything they could to strengthen peak time services. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Anyone for a Jaffa Cake?!? This is one of my 4 CEP's that I repainted in this livery, just needs weathering now. Reminds me of the times I got on this train to head down to Dover to catch the boat. For me, the Farish 4 CEP is most definitely their best model yet in terms of quality and detail. Best regards, Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nick_bastable Posted January 23, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 23, 2017 Anyone for a Jaffa Cake?!? This is one of my 4 CEP's that I repainted in this livery, just needs weathering now. Reminds me of the times I got on this train to head down to Dover to catch the boat. For me, the Farish 4 CEP is most definitely their best model yet in terms of quality and detail. Best regards, Jeremy that's probably why I've got 3 sets in Green, Gordon done a terrific job at converting the wheels to 2mm standards but wheres your 3rd rail still trying to work out how to convert the BB however as Hornby's service dept's hopeless Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Pilotman Posted January 24, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2017 Anyone for a Jaffa Cake?!? This is one of my 4 CEP's that I repainted in this livery, just needs weathering now. Reminds me of the times I got on this train to head down to Dover to catch the boat. For me, the Farish 4 CEP is most definitely their best model yet in terms of quality and detail. Best regards, Jeremy A 4CEP at Euston? Stretching rule one just a bit isn't it Jeremy? And not really at home on your Par layout either... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 A 4CEP at Euston? Stretching rule one just a bit isn't it Jeremy? And not really at home on your Par layout either... It wouldn't look great on Par but it could be at home at Euston on a special as there is some third rail into two of the platforms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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