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Oxford Rail Annouce 4-Wheel Toad





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#1 Edwardian

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 10:26

Planked and sheeted:

 

http://www.oxforddie...gton-or76tob001

 

http://www.oxforddie...6034-or76tob002

 

Thanks to Mike Harvey for spotting them.

 

How do they 'stack up"?


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#2 Mike Riley

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 10:37

Price comparison (RRP) for 4 wheel Toad.  Hornby 21.99.  Oxford 14.95.  We will have to wait to compare the quality.

 

Mike


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#3 BG John

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 11:03

No choice, as the Oxford one is the only one with full planking. Hattons pre-order changed from 6-wheel to 4-wheel. I can probably use three:

1905 - Replace 16" lettering with 25", or pre 1904 small letters, and convert to EM

Late 1880s - Small lettering, and convert to P4

1890 - Rebuild chassis to broad gauge, and small lettering

 

I've just ordered one for now though, to see what they're like.



#4 Quarryscapes

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 11:05

Well, that saves me hacking the middle wheels out of their 6 wheeler - that is evidently exactly what they have already done according to that artwork which still shows the axlebox recess in the stepboard for the middle axle! 


Edited by Quarryscapes, 24 January 2017 - 11:05 .

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#5 Dunsignalling

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 11:08

Price comparison (RRP) for 4 wheel Toad.  Hornby 21.99.  Oxford 14.95.  We will have to wait to compare the quality.

 

Mike

They are also different vehicles, Oxford's is one of the older short (20' body) diagrams and Hornby's is the post WW1 longer sort (24' body).

 

John


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#6 The Stationmaster

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 11:19

Planked and sheeted:

 

http://www.oxforddie...gton-or76tob001

 

http://www.oxforddie...6034-or76tob002

 

Thanks to Mike Harvey for spotting them.

 

How do they 'stack up"?

 

I'm slightly wary of the livery details.  But having said that if they have worked off correctly dated photos then 'oddities' can readily be proven (apart from a difference of 5 tons ;) ).  Incidentally the Acton 'van is basically Post-War (WWII) livery although the nearest I can date the change is to sometime in 1943.

 

And were the axleboxes changed later in the life of the 'vans?


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#7 Metr0Land

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 13:22

Can someone say if this version of the Toad lasted into the late 1950's pls?  (Not too bothered if some details were changed, but did the 'box on top' last in the 50's)



#8 57xx

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 23:09

Well, that saves me hacking the middle wheels out of their 6 wheeler - that is evidently exactly what they have already done according to that artwork which still shows the axlebox recess in the stepboard for the middle axle! 

 

That was the first thing I noticed :D



#9 Miss Prism

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 10:54

Looks like they have transferred the errors in the planked AA1 to the planked AA3.



#10 The Stationmaster

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 11:18

Looks like they have transferred the errors in the planked AA1 to the planked AA3.

 

I presume all they actually done is copy the AA1 artwork with a tiny bit of alteration.  It does however pose the question of whether either, or both, will be accurate once they are tooled and with Oxford's past history that is an area where fingers must be very firmly crossed.


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#11 Edwardian

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 11:43

Looks like they have transferred the errors in the planked AA1 to the planked AA3.

 

I presume all they actually done is copy the AA1 artwork with a tiny bit of alteration.  It does however pose the question of whether either, or both, will be accurate once they are tooled and with Oxford's past history that is an area where fingers must be very firmly crossed.

 

In summary, what are the issues with the 6-wheel?

 

These may or may not get sorted out and may or may not be carried over to the 4-wheel, but I think we increase the chances of a positive outcome if we catalogue the possible errors and communicate with Oxford.

 

Oxford did amend the firebox crease on the Dean after this was pointed out to them.  The other issues were ignored, we think, because Oxford felt it was too far down the line.  But for Locomotion stepping in, and it remains to be seen how successful that intervention will prove to have been, Oxford would likely have made no further corrections.

 

I take from this experience the vital need to capture adequately and comprehensively the potential issues with these vans and then communicate them to Oxford.

 

Rather this than another saga of cataloguing the short-comings of a bad model we are stuck with.


Edited by Mod4, 25 January 2017 - 12:54 .
To remove potentially inflammatory statement

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#12 Miss Prism

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 12:30

In summary, what are the issues with the 6-wheel?

 

For all variants, the middle axlebox should be on J-hangars and not swing links.
 
For the '1920' livery variant, the handrail style is wrong. (Also, depending on what Oxford is intending by the term 'early', there are other likely errors on cabin window style and position, cabin end hatch style, and verandah framing style.)

Edited by Miss Prism, 10 August 2017 - 09:51 .

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#13 Edwardian

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 12:57

 

For all variants, the middle axlebox should be on J-hangars and not swing links.
 
For the '1920' livery variant, the handrail is wrong, and the style of handrail attachment is wrong. (Also, depending on what Oxford is intending by the term 'early', there are other likely errors on cabin window style and position, cabin end hatch style, and verandah framing style.)

 

 

Thank you.

 

I have Atkins, Beard Tourret on GW wagons, but only this resource.   I will check to see if these points are discernable there. 

 

What other source of information might I usefully consider?



#14 Miss Prism

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 15:17

Early Toads, including AA1 and AA3, had low 'kickers' on the lower footboards. I can't check at the moment when this was raised to the later standard high kicker (AA13??).  Most of these low kickers were later raised to high in retrofits.

 

Also, upper footsteps on early Toads were later thickened to the later standard 2".

 

brakevan-footstep-kickers.png

 


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#15 Edwardian

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 15:21

Early Toads, including AA1 and AA3, had low 'kickers' on the lower footboards. I can't check at the moment when this was raised to the later standard high kicker (AA13??).  Most of these low kickers were later raised to high in retrofits.

 

Also, upper footsteps on early Toads were later thickened to the later standard 2".

 

attachicon.gifbrakevan-footstep-kickers.png

 

Very useful and many thanks.

 

Though "low kickers" put me in mind of a bunch of angry dwarves in Lord of the Rings.


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#16 Miss Prism

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 15:29

I think Mike is right about the AA3s having heavier boxes than the AA1s (probably 10" x 5").



#17 coachmann

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 16:04

Everyone goes ape if there is suggestion they are box-openers, so if this is really a model builders forum, why not build one? While I can see the obvious merit of knowledge, that would be the obvious course of action rather than expending all this energy on the inaccuracies of an inexpensive r-t-r model to pieces. As things stand, I suspect some people want Oxford to do the work for them!



#18 Edwardian

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 16:08

Everyone goes ape if there is suggestion they are box-openers, so if this is really a model builders forum, why not build one? While I can see the obvious merit of knowledge, that would be the obvious course of action rather than expending all this energy on the inaccuracies of an inexpensive r-t-r model to pieces. As things stand, I suspect some people want Oxford to do the work for them!

 

10 out of 10 for effort

 

0 out of 10 for relevance

 

Given a choice between a basically accurate RTR brake van and one riddled with unnecessary and avoidable mistakes, the phrase "no brainer" springs happily to mind.


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#19 coachmann

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 16:46

10 out of 10 for effort

 

0 out of 10 for relevance

 

Given a choice between a basically accurate RTR brake van and one riddled with unnecessary and avoidable mistakes, the phrase "no brainer" springs happily to mind.

I wouldn't expect box openers to see the relevance if they have never opened kits. The choice is everyone's. No one is forced to buy this Toad.


Edited by coachmann, 25 January 2017 - 16:48 .

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#20 BG John

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 16:55

Having started to build one from bits of RTR models, it was a great relief when Oxford announced it! I'm not ready to do any serious scratchbuilding yet, so an RTR model is very useful, even if it's not perfect, and what appears to be the only kit is too expensive.

 

If it's not right for the 1920 livery, is it more accurate for 1905, and/or as built, both of which are what interest me?


Edited by BG John, 25 January 2017 - 16:56 .


#21 BG John

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 17:37

Just had an e-mail from Hattons about my pre-order:

 

"Oxford Rail OR76TOB001 4-wheel 'Toad' brake van in GWR livery with planked sides - "Paddington" £12.50

Our latest information from the supplier suggests this item will arrive with us between July 2017 & September 2017"


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#22 Synch

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 17:57

I wouldn't expect box openers to see the relevance if they have never opened kits. The choice is everyone's. No one is forced to buy this Toad.

Of course there does seem to be the elitist attitude towards building kits on here...!

 

If people want the model to be right, then they have the right to voice their concerns, and at the same time, if people want to build a kit then they will.

 

So technically no one's being forced to build a kit either are they?


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#23 Edwardian

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 18:56

Of course there does seem to be the elitist attitude towards building kits on here...!

 

If people want the model to be right, then they have the right to voice their concerns, and at the same time, if people want to build a kit then they will.

 

So technically no one's being forced to build a kit either are they?

 

Quite.

 

This is a topic devoted to the announcement of a forthcoming RTR release.

 

As such, the focus is unsurprisingly on the attributes of the RTR item.

 

Oxford have shown on a number of occasions, most obviously in the case of the LNER Cattle Wagon release and the Dean Goods EP that they have misunderstood or misinterpreted their subject.  This has led to errors which were not inevitable, and which could have been avoided.  There is nothing I have seen to suggest that these issues were necessary or reasonable compromises for an RTR model.  They were simply mistakes, and Oxford has shown that it can address errors if pointed out in time.

 

Pointing out these issues might lead to a better RTR product.  Not raising them will ensure a worse RTR than it could have been.

 

I am not forced to buy this Toad.  I would quite like to, though.  I am more likely to buy it if it is a reasonably faithful model of the prototype.  Depending upon the issue, the costs, and the difficulty of rectifying the issue, I might be less likely to buy it if it is not. 

 

Implicit in much of what Larry posts is the idea that if ones buys RTR one is inherently less discriminating and should not, therefore, care about accuracy issues, but that if one does care about accuracy issues one should be building kits.

 

I do not accept that as either correct as a matter of fact or as a matter of logic.

 

If no one produces it RTR, I will kit or scratch build up to the limits of my abilities.  But, I won't object if someone offers it RTR.  If they are going to offer it RTR, however, they may as well get it right.


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#24 Ozexpatriate

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 19:25

Implicit in much of what Larry posts is the idea that if ones buys RTR one is inherently less discriminating and should not, therefore, care about accuracy issues, but that if one does care about accuracy issues one should be building kits.

Some RTR buyers are less discriminating, some are not.

 

If one chooses to be (or is through circumstance) only an RTR buyer then one's choice is buy nothing or buy what is on offer. Frankly any representative GWR Toad would sell, particularly if seen as an improvement on existing models - admittedly a pretty low bar.

 

Bachmann even announced a reissue of their old version (still superior to the old Hornby model)  in their 2017 announcements.

 

With four different TOADs on offer to the RTR punters, this year is something of a TOAD extravaganza.

 

Hornby will produce a 'nice' model despite concerns raised about specifics of the axleboxes and hangers. I am looking forward to a Toad with separately fitted hand-rails. There's nothing to suggest so far that I have seen (please correct me if I am wrong) that the Oxford Rail Toads will definitively have separately fitted hand rails. The pricing reinforces this notion.

 

Personally I appreciate knowing whether an RTR model is 'inaccurate' to inform my purchase decision and then move on. Some manufacturers are receptive to consumer criticism and others not. I'm always happy for people to share their expertise and then having done so, move on, with my gratitude to their contribution. Redundant criticism becomes tiresome after a while.


Edited by Ozexpatriate, 25 January 2017 - 19:26 .

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#25 Edwardian

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 19:29

Some RTR buyers are less discriminating, some are not.

 

Personally I appreciate knowing whether an RTR model is 'inaccurate' to inform my purchase decision and then move on. Some manufacturers are receptive to consumer criticism and others not. I'm always happy for people to share their expertise and then having done so, move on, with my gratitude to their contribution. Redundant criticism becomes tiresome after a while.

 

Some criticism can be productive of change.  Some is not, but at least those aware of it will make a more informed choice.

 

It reminds me of the story of the Judge who tried to put down FE Smith:

 

"Mr Smith, I have listened at length to your submissions and I am afraid I am none the wiser"

 

"No, My Lord, but at least you are better informed" 


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