Bachmann 8T Cattle Wagon

[Gordon A]

Chaps,

 

From Don Rowlands British Railway Wagons, Diag 1/354 is 11 foot wheel base, 18ft 6inches over headstocks and 21feet 11 inches over buffers.

 

The GWR Mex B cattle wagons , Diagrams W8 and W10 are 11ft 6 inch wheelbase, and 18ft 6inches over headstocks.

 

Gordon

[craigwelsh]

The thread on these is http://www.rmweb.co....22entry105922 with a link back to the thread on the old forum where someone mentioned they were an extra foot long.

 

 

Bachmann has released them in GW livery though for a W12 dia wagon, i'm not sure if those were longer apart from a wheelbase of 11ft 6?

Edited April 7, 2010 by Mod4
Thanks Craig threads now merged

['CHARD]

Cattle wagons were apparently always regarded as 'good' for broccoli as they apparently allowed air to circulate (to some extent) round the boxes of produce thus helping to keep it looking fresh.

 

PS The 'background' to the pic at the head of this thread looks as tempting as the wagon :icon_drool:

Hehehe - clotted cream and jam (choice of raspberry or apricot in my gaff) saw off that little lot in short order, I can assure ya!

I can't help but think of the WSR when hot scones are around the W/B, it's some distraction.

 

Picked up my second 8-tonner at the weekend: the seasonal vegetable rake is coming together nicely - I can feel an entry in the sectional appendix coming on (scones and all)

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Niggling in the back of my mind is something about potatoes having to be loaded in vans for some reason.

That's probably because potatoes should be stored in the dark (prevents greening and sprouting), and also need to be reasonably dry if they are not to rot. The light aspect is obvious on a cattle wagon, and I can imagine that heavy rain with strong winds or the motion of the train could result in a very thorough dousing. It will have to be the brassicae then, they won't mind.

 

As for the overlength aspect, I will live with that for the nice finish of the vehicle. Speculation time: is there 'something else' that has the same wheelbase but is slightly longer over headstocks, and this chassis (and thus the body) has been made to a compromise length to suit?

[Guest Max Stafford]

I have a long rake plus a couple of LNER designs for my 1956 sessions. A couple of later ones too - just the thing to hang off a Baby Sulzer, eh 'Chard?

 

Dave.

['CHARD]

I have a long rake plus a couple of LNER designs for my 1956 sessions. A couple of later ones too - just the thing to hang off a Baby Sulzer, eh 'Chard?

 

Dave.

Last time I had a 1956 session I fell asleep in my chicken jalfrezi. Oh hang on, that was a 1664 session.*

 

A long rake hanging off a Baby Sulzer of any description is essence, pure and simple. On Teviotbank, however, their natural milieu looks like being tripped down the branch in penny numbers in the company of 16T and 12T standards, albeit with a DO5 Baby at the helm, and then forwarded in the local tripper behind whatever's rostered. Which in many cases will be the same DO5 loco or a visiting 60A counterpart or marauding 64B Clayton, marshalled ahead of the obligatory 13T steel opens that seemed to infest the Hawick trip.

 

Is Hobbyrail open, I fancy a wee walk..?

 

 

* also known as a George Jackson Churchward

[Wizard of the Moor]

According to the BR Diagram Book:

 

The D1/350 and D1/352 12 ton cattle wagons were 18'6" over headstocks with an 11' wheelbase.

 

The D1/351 12 ton wagons were 19' over headstocks with a 10'6" wheelbase.

 

The D1/353 8 ton wagons were 18'6" over headstocks with a 11' wheelbase. This is the one that Bachmann have produced.

 

All these wagons are shown with 1'8.5" buffers.

[colin.divall]

I'm afraid it does indeed seem that the Bachmann version is a full scale foot too long over the headstocks. There is a dimensioned drawing of the Diagram 1/354 ferry conversions at p. 80 of Don Rowland's British Railway Wagons (1985); it's the same basic body as the standard 8T wagon. I bought two of the models at the York show on the basis of the quality of the moulding and Bachmann's generally good reputation (in recent years) for the quality of their wagons, and was bitterly disappointed when I lined them up against the 1960s vintage Airfix version - which is pretty well spot-on as far as the basic body dimensions are concerned, even if the detail is a bit iffy. The difference is really quite striking - see Ben's photos above.

 

Perhaps Bachmann were trying to make up for the old LMS cattle wagon being way too short....

 

Colin D.

[David C]

Reading some of the posts above would suggest that cattle wagons were hardly ever used to transport livestock in the BR period. Whilst the trade was declining, there were still substantial movements of cattle in the late 1950s and early 60s. Single wagon loads were increasingly rare, but those stations with livestock markets often saw quite lengthy special trains consisting solely of cattle wagons on market days.

 

David C

[Kenton]

Only just come across this - one of my favourite topics...

But more seriously, I have heard the story that the BR cattle wagons (which were pretty much redundant at the time of construction due to majority of the trade decamping to the road) were used for moving fruit and veg to help cope with the high peak loads of this traffic. I have seen photos of LNE and LMS cattle vans branded fruit, was this done on BR cattle wagons? Any pictures? Groping wildly here for a chance to use a couple with my other grouping prototype kitbuilds in this traffic.

I don't know much about BR wagons, but 130 of the GWR W10 cattle vans were lightly converted for fruit and vegetable transport in 1939 becoming Y10.

The "ALE" were in fact for Guiness - originally W1 also converted in 1939 to V10. Most of the ones that were converted were the oddities left over from Lots 464 476 and 651 which had been built with 18ft length.

 

BTW although limewash was banned from use as early as the late 1920's I have personal experience of mixing and using it on the inside of cattle sheds in the late 1960's. I have always wondered how the ban really came about and how effective it was when the stuff was still in common use so many years later.

[Pennine MC]

The thread on these is http://www.rmweb.co....22entry105922 with a link back to the thread on the old forum where someone mentioned they were an extra foot long.

 

 

Must admit I'd not realised the significance of that post, with it not really being fully explained, and also I'd not spotted the overlength despite having compared the model with a kit when it first came out. Good job I'm not writing reviews

 

 

As for the overlength aspect, I will live with that for the nice finish of the vehicle.

 

Much my thoughts. It's very hard to see how this mistake has actually occurred, but with the van being longer than a normal merchandise van, it's not too evident. And I'm getting increasingly less bothered about such things as I get older - overall appearance and weathering are more important in conveying an impression in a layout context, I think

 

Speculation time: is there 'something else' that has the same wheelbase but is slightly longer over headstocks, and this chassis (and thus the body) has been made to a compromise length to suit?

 

I dont think so - anything else on an 11ft wb underframe tended to be more specialised and/or have more modern brake gear

 

 

The other error that I believe it has (along with all their other fitted stock) is that the buffers are too short. I understand that the buffer shanks on unfitted wagons were 18inches long but on fitted vehicles they had to be 20 inches ...

 

 

Generally that's true, yes (20 and a half, to be pedantic), although it depends on the couplings used - a lot of BR 1950s-built fitted stock with Instanters had the 18" fittings. I think shortening of buffers is a frequent manufacturing compromise though, possibly to make them less prone to 'snappage'

[Michael Delamar]

ive always wondered what the circular hole in one of the doors was for.

 

does anyone know?

 

cheers

 

Mike

[Kenton]

ive always wondered what the circular hole in one of the doors was for.

 

does anyone know?

 

cheers

 

Mike

To put a hand through to unlock the door

[drandles]

Reading some of the posts above would suggest that cattle wagons were hardly ever used to transport livestock in the BR period. Whilst the trade was declining, there were still substantial movements of cattle in the late 1950s and early 60s. Single wagon loads were increasingly rare, but those stations with livestock markets often saw quite lengthy special trains consisting solely of cattle wagons on market days.

 

David C

 

 

Cattle trains (with cattle !) were quite common on the South Wales mainline well into the 1960s. I recall long trains of cattle wagons carrying imported Irish livestock from Fishguard Harbour to various destinations in the east and north. These always ran under control orders (ie they were not in the working timetable) and were quite often duplicated or occasionally triplicated. One one occasion I remember a very large train full of noisy cattle passing through Ferryside with a brake vans in the middle and the rear, headed by two County Class 4-6-0s - obviously two trains combined. There was also a regular Wednesdays only Carmarthen-Crewe cattle train. Latterly (from about 1962) this was formed almost entirely of BR standard horseboxes, mostly in Southern green livery, and was worked by a Stanier Class 5MT or 8F.

 

A decent cattle train is next on the list for my modelling project - the trains I remember from the 1950s in South West Wales.

 

David R

['CHARD]

To put a hand through to unlock the door

 

From inside, for clarity!

[Guest Phil]

Reading some of the posts above would suggest that cattle wagons were hardly ever used to transport livestock in the BR period. Whilst the trade was declining, there were still substantial movements of cattle in the late 1950s and early 60s. Single wagon loads were increasingly rare, but those stations with livestock markets often saw quite lengthy special trains consisting solely of cattle wagons on market days.

 

David C

 

 

There were certainly cattle vans conveying Irish pigs into the Black Country for slaughter into the early 1960s. There are records of vans going into the Palethorpes siding at Sedgeley Jn to transport pigs to the Palethorpes factory for conversion into sausages.

 

I'm also told that cattle vans went into Great Bridge yard too, but not necessarily for the same consignee. I'm trying to establish the consignee for the Great Bridge traffic, which is not helped by distant memories of pigs being herded through the streets by people I have spoken to.

['CHARD]

Better alert Dudley Dodger to that crackling bit of gen

[newport_rod]

drandles

 

Did the Wednesdays only Carmarthen-Crewe work on the South Wales mainline and thence via PPRD or the Central Wales? I was wondering what might have been seen at Little Mill Jc ca 1955!

[newport_rod]

Thanks PMP - it could be that the Carmarthen-Crewe working missed the cameras being on a Wednesday - proving a negative is always difficult.!

 

Rod

[Fat Controller]

Cattle trains (with cattle !) were quite common on the South Wales mainline well into the 1960s. I recall long trains of cattle wagons carrying imported Irish livestock from Fishguard Harbour to various destinations in the east and north. These always ran under control orders (ie they were not in the working timetable) and were quite often duplicated or occasionally triplicated. One one occasion I remember a very large train full of noisy cattle passing through Ferryside with a brake vans in the middle and the rear, headed by two County Class 4-6-0s - obviously two trains combined. There was also a regular Wednesdays only Carmarthen-Crewe cattle train. Latterly (from about 1962) this was formed almost entirely of BR standard horseboxes, mostly in Southern green livery, and was worked by a Stanier Class 5MT or 8F.

 

A decent cattle train is next on the list for my modelling project - the trains I remember from the 1950s in South West Wales.

 

David R

I wonder whether the horse-boxes were being used to convey breeding stock, rather than animals for slaughter? The area was well-known for its pedigree dairy stock, with the MMB later installing one of its AI centres just to the west of Carmarthen (Johnston?)By the time I was old enough to loiter around Llanelli station (late 1960s), most of the Irish traffic was on the hook, not the hoof, whilst Carmarthen's prime bulls sent their contribution by rail in vacuum flasks.

Carmarthen used to have different markets on six days of the week, with all-day opening in certain pubs- no wonder Sundays were nominally 'dry' for many years; they needed a breather.

[Pennine MC]

I wonder whether the horse-boxes were being used to convey breeding stock, rather than animals for slaughter? The area was well-known for its pedigree dairy stock,

 

Sounds reasonable and I think I've heard or read of that arrangement before; in practical terms, I wouldnt have thought there'd be too much difference between a horsebox and a prize cattle van (the latter also being NPCCS rather than goods stock). Again in one of Hendry's wagon books, there's a pic of the converse - a cattle wagon containing horses, which Mr Hendry surmises may be off to the knacker's

[BSG75]

Hi Gang, sorry to be a pain, but were we able to establish if the second batch of 37-710/712 had different running numbers to the batch released last year ? Thanks !

[Brinkly]

On a variation of a theme I've had a good look up in the loft and upgrades for the Airfix cattle wagon kit which is now produced by Dapol article was featured in Model Rail September 2003 issue. Not sure of the issue number as the cover is missing.

 

Hope this might be of use for someone.

 

Regards,

Nick.

 

 

[Captain Kernow]

According to the BR Diagram Book:

 

The D1/350 and D1/352 12 ton cattle wagons were 18'6" over headstocks with an 11' wheelbase.

 

The D1/351 12 ton wagons were 19' over headstocks with a 10'6" wheelbase.

 

The D1/353 8 ton wagons were 18'6" over headstocks with a 11' wheelbase. This is the one that Bachmann have produced.

 

All these wagons are shown with 1'8.5" buffers.

I'm slightly confused - did folk conclude that the Bachmann model was dimensionally correct for the diagram portrayed, or not?

[chrisf]

My understanding, based entirely on what others have said, is that the Bachmann model is a scale foot too long.

 

Chris