Hroth Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Monday 13th February 2017 on Channel 5 at 9PM Examines how trains transformed the nation and shaped modern Britain. ep 1 "Boom, Blood and Bust" Looks at Puffing Billy, Henry Booth and navvies... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyboy Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I almost missed this as I haven't seen any adverts for it and have only just noticed it in the schedules! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share Posted February 13, 2017 Haven't watched it yet, I only caught the introduction to the part about signals and brakes (about 10 mins before the end of the programme). What struck me was that the illustrations chosen to show the results of lack of either were of 1. The River Dee accident, which was due to a fault in a cast iron girder and 2. the Staplehurst disaster, only tangentially involving signalling, but mainly involving bad working practices amongst a gang of men replacing baulks of timber carrying the track on the Staplehurst "viaduct". It then went on to discuss the Armagh disaster which was initially due to lack of engine power and then mismanagement of brakes. I'll have a look at the whole thing tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer27jd Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 There is so much that could be discussed about railways, yet what we got was another retelling of the origins of the railways. Rainhill, George Stephenson bla, bla, bla. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamperman36 Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 What ever happened to Richard Trevithick, and the Middleton railway in Leeds which dates from 1758 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 There is so much that could be discussed about railways, yet we got was another retelling of the origins of the railways. Rainhill, George Stephenson bla, bla, bla. And even then missing out important facts that could easily have been included without being nerdy. E.g. William Huskisson wasn't run down nerely because Stephenson hadn't thought of putting brakes on his locomotives - he just didn't hear Rocket coming, and the steam whistle which could have warned of Rockets approach had yet to be invented... Tarrant was also in the grocer's shop at Beamish talking about the manufactured products in the shop not being available more than a few miles from where they were made until the railways - well they weren't much made before the coming of the railways, it was the railways that made not only their distribution possible, but also their manufacure in the first place. As usual, many of the stock photo images were incorrectly placed (the Dee Bridge disaster wasn't caused by a safety issue - but to the producers it's just another 'train crash' image). As for the re-enactment of the Armagh disaster - it started off well with period loco (Bellerophon) and coaches, but then no mention of the stalled loco on restarting bumping back into the chocked train, setting it in motion. Then the following train which collided with it was an SR School with BR Mk1s... and why oh why does every shot of a train have to be 'whistling' when it clearly isn't? Usually the wrong whistle too.... MUST TRY HARDER. Rant over... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I like Mr Tarrant, I do, really, But his previous programmes involving trains have been little more than travelogues, and about his feelings whilst on them. Nice, but very repetitive and not really revealing, unlike say Palin or Portillo. I am not surprised at the verdict on here, but I did not get to see it, so will reserve judgement until I do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Haven't watched it yet, I only caught the introduction to the part about signals and brakes (about 10 mins before the end of the programme). What struck me was that the illustrations chosen to show the results of lack of either were of 1. The River Dee accident, which was due to a fault in a cast iron girder and 2. the Staplehurst disaster, only tangentially involving signalling, but mainly involving bad working practices amongst a gang of men replacing baulks of timber carrying the track on the Staplehurst "viaduct". It then went on to discuss the Armagh disaster which was initially due to lack of engine power and then mismanagement of brakes. I'll have a look at the whole thing tomorrow. Save an hour of your life - do some modelling instead! (Apologies for re-mentioning the Dee Bridge - hadn't read your post at the time.) Trouble is, people will watch this thinking because Chris Tarrant is telling them, it's all correct. Blue Peter in the olden days would have done a far better job of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted February 14, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 14, 2017 Trouble is, people will watch this thinking because Chris Tarrant is telling them, it's all correct. Blue Peter in the olden days would have done a far better job of it. Firstly I'm not sure Chris Tarrant is held as a bastion of truth giving, where his word is gospel and, secondly, so what? Was anything actually fundamentally wrong? Are people going to go to work tomorrow and talk about the Armagh disaster involving the Schools and the mk1 stock? Yes, attention to detail can often be lacking to those who know much (it all, perhaps?), but is it preferable not to have a railway programme lest it not be 100% accurate? It's an entertainment show for the masses. Take it for what it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Firstly I'm not sure Chris Tarrant is held as a bastion of truth giving, where his word is gospel and, secondly, so what? Was anything actually fundamentally wrong? Are people going to go to work tomorrow and talk about the Armagh disaster involving the Schools and the mk1 stock? Yes, attention to detail can often be lacking to those who know much (it all, perhaps?), but is it preferable not to have a railway programme lest it not be 100% accurate? It's an entertainment show for the masses. Take it for what it is. Yes, typical modern TV. If it was an Edwardian period drama and a post-WW2 car appeared in one scene, then that's OK, right? It's just entertainment for the masses... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted February 14, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 14, 2017 Yes, typical modern TV. If it was an Edwardian period drama and a post-WW2 car appeared in one scene, then that's OK, right? It's just entertainment for the masses... Actually modern TV (and film) is absolutely full of these sorts of errors, yes. You're just spotting the train ones because they're glaring to you. Downton Abbey came under fire for having clothing and technology which was some decades out of kilter with its setting. Road markings are frequently incorrect in such dramas, and medical professionals laugh at the likes of Holby City for its many inaccuracies. Lighten up. If you don't enjoy it, don't watch it. I'm very much of the opinion that exposing more people to railway related programs is a good thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 2mmMark Posted February 14, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14, 2017 Thought it was a good attempt to cover the subject and well done Channel 5 for putting a railway programme on at peak time. Interesting snippets of film used, a Beattie well tank was shown at one point. Chris Tarrant's presenting style is a bit "block capitals & exclamation marks". Still, it keeps you awake in the armchair. The intrusion of a "Text TRAIN to..." advert within the programme was jarring but that's the economics of modern TV nowadays. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Actually modern TV (and film) is absolutely full of these sorts of errors, yes. You're just spotting the train ones because they're glaring to you. Downton Abbey came under fire for having clothing and technology which was some decades out of kilter with its setting. Road markings are frequently incorrect in such dramas, and medical professionals laugh at the likes of Holby City for its many inaccuracies. Lighten up. If you don't enjoy it, don't watch it. I'm very much of the opinion that exposing more people to railway related programs is a good thing. Yes, I'm well aware of Downtown's errors, the very first episode's were enough for me to not watch any more! While I may not be medically experienced to recognise the howlers in them, Holby City/Casualty have long ceased to be the watchably good dramas they started out as - they're just soaps with silly plots and scripts nowadays. As for last night, like the BBC's Trainspotting Live last year, I'll watch or do something else next time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted February 14, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 14, 2017 I wasn't expecting much, but I thought it was ok. I had enjoyed his travelogues in the Arctic. Ok so there was nothing new in this program, but did we really expect that. And it made a pleasant change from Soaps, hospital dramas and murders . Just some nice views . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I watched it in 'fast forward' to pick up any interesting archive film, of which there was some. The little commentary I heard was of the highest quality 'with the benefit of hindsight' school. A major missed opportunity was to comment on the development of the 'permanent share' stock market, necessitated by the financing required to enable the network to be built. On the positive side, the only mention of the Great Western was for kiiling the peasants, a welcome change from the usual encomia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 What ever happened to Richard Trevithick, and the Middleton railway in Leeds which dates from 1758 Or even the Surrey Iron Railway: G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted February 14, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14, 2017 HSTs "modern" trains - well they were when I was a kid LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I wasn't expecting much, but I thought it was ok. I had enjoyed his travelogues in the Artic. Ok so there was nothing new in this program, but did we really expect that. And it made a pleasant change from Soaps, hospital dramas and murders . Just some nice views . Yes I do expect a new TV series on a familiar story that's been well told by others to offer something new. There have been several recent series and programmes on railways that have done just that and that's surely what commissioning editors are supposed to be for. What I saw last night struck me as very lazy television with a script many of us could almost have written from memory, little sign of original research and nothing new to say at all. I've enjoyed Tarrant's Extreme Railways series because they showed me things and people I'd not seen before and gave me some real insights but I'm afraid what I saw last night did none of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted February 14, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 14, 2017 What I saw last night struck me as very lazy television with a script many of us could almost have written from memory, little sign of original research and nothing new to say at all. At risk of sounding a bit like a broken record, this wasn't aimed at "many of us" particularly, it's pitched to appeal to a mass market audience. I work for a finance company, but I don't complain that Martin Lewis's articles dumb things down too much. If you want something which will educate someone who's already got an intimate knowledge of something quite as esoteric as 19th century rail crashes then I'd suggest that nothing scheduled at a prime time on one of the main channels is likely to deliver! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I wasn't a great fan of "Extreme Railways", not least because of the general grumpiness he displayed at times. Anyone travelling by train in Sub Saharan Africa becomes accustomed to protracted, unexplained delays, it's just what happens there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 At risk of sounding a bit like a broken record, this wasn't aimed at "many of us" particularly, it's pitched to appeal to a mass market audience. I work for a finance company, but I don't complain that Martin Lewis's articles dumb things down too much. If you want something which will educate someone who's already got an intimate knowledge of something quite as esoteric as 19th century rail crashes then I'd suggest that nothing scheduled at a prime time on one of the main channels is likely to deliver! I'm sorry but I've made plenty of programmes aimed at mass audiences and it's certainly not an excuse for so-what television, quite the opposite in fact. It's actually a lot easier to make programmes or write for a specialist audience than a general one which is why Martin Lewis earns his fees. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 Having finally watched all the first program, I've decided that yes, its not for me. I've not got a gripe with Chris Tarrant. He's there as a presenter, reading a script provided by the production company and chosen because the general viewing public know his name and can recognise it in connection with programmes about railway topics. What irritates me is the lazy sloppy way the programme was put together by the production company. The script is poor and incoherent with curious facts and disconnected timelines, with the (expensive) fragments of pieces to camera by Tarrant interspersed with voice-over to largely irrelevant stock footage. I particularly like the factoid that Henry Booth "headhunted" the "young George Stephenson" to produce a locomotive, and that the Liverpool and Manchester sometimes became the Manchester and Liverpool! The other thing that struck me was the retrospective class hysteria that permeated a fair proportion of the script. Pacific231G suggests that the script could have been cobbled together by most of us from memory and I tend to agree - it reminded me of "1066 and All That", a book that is full of examples of half-remembered and mixed-up facts for comic effect! (I refer my esteemed colleagues to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_and_All_That for more details) Sadly, it also reminds me of various Hollywood films that take a real event and move it in time, space and nationality but still present the event as almost historical. Thats the main problem with the series. Facts and situations are similarly displaced and the general viewer, one with only a passing interest in railways and who had ther attention grabbed by the title "The Railways that Built Britain with Chris Tarrant", will end up taking away a mess of misinformation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 I had planned to watch this show on Catch-Up, however I have been rather put off by a feature on the programme in the 'tv choice' listings magazine, in which Chris Tarrant blandly states 'our trains [nowadays] are a disaster area'. In my opinion, and experience as both a passenger and (former) railway employee, this is totally rubbish and typifies the negative attitude of the British media; While there are certainly many areas for improvement, our railways are carrying more passengers, on more frequent services, more safely than at any time in history. Thanks to this article, and the comments in this topic, I have now saved an hour of my time to do something more rewarding ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted February 15, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 15, 2017 Pity a lot of it was a badly collated melange of what has been on TV recently (and done better) by others. The animation (shown at least twice) showing the progessive construction of railways year by year seemed to bear no resemblance to reality. We see a line from Birmingham to York, then the Trent valley line but no Grand Junction and no London & Birmingham! No mention of Robert Stephenson at all but who had much more to do with the expansion of the railways than his father George. Even the newspaper clip from the time of the L&M trials whilst C.T. was waffling about "George Stephenson entering his own Rocket" quite clearly showed Rocket entered by "Robert Stephenson of Newcastle". The thing I don't understand are people excusing it because "It's aimed at a mass audience". That is no excuse for getting facts wrong. It would still be entertaining if it was correct! BTW anyone spot the odd foreign train in the clips liberally spread through the programme? Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 ... The animation (shown at least twice) showing the progessive construction of railways year by year seemed to bear no resemblance to reality. We see a line from Birmingham to York, then the Trent valley line but no Grand Junction and no London & Birmingham! ... BTW anyone spot the odd foreign train in the clips liberally spread through the programme? Keith Yes, that animation grated - for example, no sign of the Birkenhead Railway from Chester up the Wirral Penninsula, and that was 1840! To be honest, I didn't look that closely at the clips of trains running about after a while, I'll have another look for the furriners before I delete the programme! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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