Pullmans over the Mendips?

[Departmental]

Regarding route availability for various classes of locos on the S&D, i am looking at a copy of BR31451, BR Western Region Locomotive Route Availability, dated  June 1963 as i type this.

 

Mangotsfield Junction to Bath Green Park. Route Color 'Red'.

 

Permitted engines: - All BR Standard Classes. It should be noted that the listed of permitted WR Classes of locos does not include the Castle Class, despite the fact that they did turn up at Green Park on specials, presumably local management was losing concern over clearance issues as steam came to an end?

 

The document does not show route availability over the Bath to Templecombe line, presumably one would need to locate a copy of the SR Route Availability document to ascertain what restrictions applied south of Bath.

[treggyman]

Hi

 

I was idly looking through my books on the S & D & came across a black & white picture of West Country loco Blandford Forum hauling a rake of four pullman coaches into Blandford Forum station.......

 

The book is Steam on the Somerset & Dorset by G A Richardson....An album of black & white pictures....Published by D Bradford Barton in 1975.

 

The picture is on page 61 & the caption reads Quote 'A rare occasion on 25 October 1961 was a visit by a Pullman Special to Blandford forum,conveying a party from Brighton to Flight Refuelling Ltd at nearby Tarrant Rushton. The 'West Country' Pacific was,appropriatly no 34107 Blandford Forum'

 

Seems like a good enough excuse for your Pullmans.......The train must have had to run to Bath for some obscure reason rather than returning to Bournemouth....Another client on the way?????

 

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to scan & post the pic but I can try & Pm it to you if you like...

 

Cheers Bill

[RailWest]

>>>Seems like a good enough excuse for your Pullmans.......The train must have had to run to Bath for some obscure reason rather than returning to Bournemouth....

 

I don't understand why you make that assumption? Are there any other photos then of that train further north than Blandford?

[TheSignalEngineer]

Regarding route availability for various classes of locos on the S&D, i am looking at a copy of BR31451, BR Western Region Locomotive Route Availability, dated  June 1963 as i type this.

 

Mangotsfield Junction to Bath Green Park. Route Color 'Red'.

 

Permitted engines: - All BR Standard Classes. It should be noted that the listed of permitted WR Classes of locos does not include the Castle Class, despite the fact that they did turn up at Green Park on specials, presumably local management was losing concern over clearance issues as steam came to an end?

 

The document does not show route availability over the Bath to Templecombe line, presumably one would need to locate a copy of the SR Route Availability document to ascertain what restrictions applied south of Bath.

See Post #16 above. I put up a copy of Bath Green Park to Templecombe from the 1960 WTT. Route Colour was Blue.

[JZ]

>>>Seems like a good enough excuse for your Pullmans.......The train must have had to run to Bath for some obscure reason rather than returning to Bournemouth....

 

I don't understand why you make that assumption? Are there any other photos then of that train further north than Blandford?

Have you no sense of humour?

[Dunsignalling]

Regarding route availability for various classes of locos on the S&D, i am looking at a copy of BR31451, BR Western Region Locomotive Route Availability, dated  June 1963 as i type this.

 

Mangotsfield Junction to Bath Green Park. Route Color 'Red'.

 

Permitted engines: - All BR Standard Classes. It should be noted that the listed of permitted WR Classes of locos does not include the Castle Class, despite the fact that they did turn up at Green Park on specials, presumably local management was losing concern over clearance issues as steam came to an end?

 

The document does not show route availability over the Bath to Templecombe line, presumably one would need to locate a copy of the SR Route Availability document to ascertain what restrictions applied south of Bath.

The issue with the Castle was allegedly to do with cylinder clearance and I've been told they were detached from incoming specials short of the platforms with the coaches shunted in by a station pilot. I've seen pictures of such specials which seem to bear this out.

 

As for ex-GWR locos running over the S&D line from Bath, I've not seen a list either but I think the practice was inside cylinder locos were OK but outside cylinder ones weren't, again for reasons of clearance. Such GWR engines were generally on the wide side. 

 

John

Edited April 23, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[treggyman]

>>>Seems like a good enough excuse for your Pullmans.......The train must have had to run to Bath for some obscure reason rather than returning to Bournemouth....

 

I don't understand why you make that assumption? Are there any other photos then of that train further north than Blandford?

Hi RailWest

 

No I don't have any other pictures or info....

My comment was that with modellers licence one could suggest that the train might have gone to Bath so JZ has an excuse to run Pullmans over the Mendips,...

I haven't a clue where the train went after Blandford.....

All I was trying to do was pass on information & make a suggestion,probably totally illogical as it would be most likely I assume to return towards the Bournemouth direction as one assumes that's where it came from.......

 

Cheers Bill

[TheSignalEngineer]

The issue with the Castle was allegedly to do with cylinder clearance and I've been told they were detached from incoming specials short of the platforms with the coaches shunted in by a station pilot. I've seen pictures of such specials which seem to bear this out.

 

As for ex-GWR locos running over the S&D line from Bath, I've not seen a list either but I think the practice was inside cylinder locos were OK but outside cylinder ones weren't, again for reasons of clearance. Such GWR engines were generally on the wide side. 

 

John

In a similar vein, but not S&D. On 16th April 1955 an Ian Allan special from Paddington via Bristol and Bromsgrove to Birmingham  was hauled by Castle 7017 until it got to Bournville signal box where a Black 5 was put on. This was reportedly due to platform clearance issues. The Black 5 was then replaced by Castle 7007 at New St Bordesley Junction for the return journey to Paddington via Bicester. 

 

 

Edited for engine change on return, Notes with Ben Brooksbank photo on Geograph give location as Bordesley junction.

Edited April 24, 2017 by TheSignalEngineer

[TheSignalEngineer]

In a similar vein, but not S&D. On 16th April 1955 an Ian Allan special from Paddington via Bristol and Bromsgrove to Birmingham  was hauled by Castle 7017 until it got to Bournville signal box where a Black 5 was put on. The Black 5 was then replaced by Castle 7007 at New St for the return journey to Paddington via Bicester. This was reportedly due to platform clearance issues.

 Apparently it had the Beaver Tail car at the back and was banked up Lickey by Bertha. Now that would be a 'Holy Grail' photo.

[TheSignalEngineer]

In a similar vein, but not S&D. On 16th April 1955 an Ian Allan special from Paddington via Bristol and Bromsgrove to Birmingham  was hauled by Castle 7017 until it got to Bournville signal box where a Black 5 was put on. This was reportedly due to platform clearance issues. The Black 5 was then replaced by Castle 7007 at New St Bordesley Junction for the return journey to Paddington via Bicester. 

 

 

Edited for engine change on return, Notes with Ben Brooksbank photo on Geograph give location as Bordesley junction.

 Apparently it had the Beaver Tail car at the back and was banked up Lickey by Bertha. Now that would be a 'Holy Grail' photo.

Still wandering off-topic a picture does exist. A certain Mr. Blenkinsop happened to be in a field near Vigo with his camera when the train passed. His photo was published in the Locospotters Annual in 1957

[tingleytim]

The return journey from Blandford to Brighton could easily have been via Templecombe and Salisbury, with a piloted reversal from No. 2 Junction at Templecombe up to the Salisbury  - Exeter main line where 34107 would have been at the right end of the Pullmans for the eastward journey.  Had the train gone back south from Blandford, 34107 would have had to run round at Blandford and somewhere else and be turned somewhere, probably at Branksome triangle, or be replaced by another loco presumably at Bournemouth. There doesn’t seem much point in the train going north over the Mendips.  34107 was based at Exmouth Junction in 1961 so a return journey via Templecombe would have enabled it to return home easily, especially if it came off at Salisbury.
I’ll have to nip out now and invest in 4 Pullmans for my Templecombe Lower layout.  Or maybe see if I can borrow some.

[bike2steam]

On 22/04/2017 at 22:08, treggyman said:

Hi

 

I was idly looking through my books on the S & D & came across a black & white picture of West Country loco Blandford Forum hauling a rake of four pullman coaches into Blandford Forum station.......

 

The book is Steam on the Somerset & Dorset by G A Richardson....An album of black & white pictures....Published by D Bradford Barton in 1975.

 

The picture is on page 61 & the caption reads Quote 'A rare occasion on 25 October 1961 was a visit by a Pullman Special to Blandford forum,conveying a party from Brighton to Flight Refuelling Ltd at nearby Tarrant Rushton. The 'West Country' Pacific was,appropriatly no 34107 Blandford Forum'

 

Seems like a good enough excuse for your Pullmans.......The train must have had to run to Bath for some obscure reason rather than returning to Bournemouth....Another client on the way?????

 

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to scan & post the pic but I can try & Pm it to you if you like...

 

Cheers Bill

Apologies for missing this one, but here goes. The reason for this train was the funeral train for the wife of Sir Alan Cobham ( founder of Flight Refuelling), who's wish, once she passed away, was to have her remains interred at Tarrant Rushton parish church. The train terminated at Blandford, the Pullman coaches shunted into the yard and the funeral party finished the journey by road. 34107 reversed to Hamworthy, and turned on the triangle, returned to Blandford, departed with the coaches to Poole yard. Alan Cobham, the originator of in-flight refueling started during WW2 at the old airfield at Tarrant Rushton, and , understandably, she fell in love with the area. So was the story related to me by a former signal-man at Blandford.

Edited September 6, 2020 by bike2steam
some wrong details

[tingleytim]

Apologies for missing this one, but here goes. The reason for this train was the funeral train for Sir Alan Cobham ( founder of Flight Refuelling), who's wish, once he passed away, was to have his remains interred at Tarrant Rushton parish church. The train terminated at Blandford, the Pullman coaches shunted into the yard and the funeral party finished the journey by road. 34107 reversed to Branksome, and turned on the triangle, returned to Blandford, departed with the coaches to Poole yard. Alan Cobham, the originator of in-flight refueling started during WW2 at the old airfield at Tarrant Rushton, and , understandably,fell in love with the area. So was the story related to me by a former signal-man at Blandford.

 

Glad I didn’t rush out for those four Pullmans.  A fine sequence for the Blandford layout’s next away fixture?

[geoffers]

That was the story I heard as well.

OT - Tarrant Rushton airfield lingered on for quite some time and was used as a gliding club venue into the 70s. FR then moved their operations to Hurn (or Bournemouth International Airport to give it its posh name). Tarrant Rushton subsequently was ploughed up and returned to farmland though there is a memorial there. My uncle (still going at 94) was a Flight Engineer on Halifax aircraft at TR and was in one of the crews who acted as a glider tug for D-Day and Market Garden. He has many stories to tell but I will spare you them. Incidentally while I was working at Hurn as a sprog metman Sir Douglas Bader came into the office for briefings several times.To say this young sprogs was gobsmacked is rather understating things.

Edited September 26, 2017 by geoffers