Hornby Dublo 'City of London': a restoration....

[Prometheus]

There doesn't seem to be a specific general HD thread on here [which is perhaps a shame] so here's my latest rebuild...

 

I don't actively collect Wrenn or HD locos but some occasionally come my way and I suppose I've around ten now. This 2-rail [of course!] City of London was acquired recently, not working, with a reasonable but slightly tired body. My intention is a repaint / rename, but retaining 99% of the original casting and tender. It will run in an LMS livery as The Duchess of Atholl.

 

Starting point:

 

 

An hour or two with toothpicks, cotton buds and IPA sorted out what had been a filthy mechanism with fluff encrusted pick-ups and dirty wheels. A little oil to the bearings then had it running beautifully and very controllably. It does run a little quicker in reverse than forward though: not an uncommon problem, but why ?

 

What I do love about these mechanisms is that they are real engineering, you need proper screwdrivers and spanners to work on them and, of course, everything can be owner serviced.  

 

Serviced:

 

 

By this time, I had replaced the front bogie wheels with metal ones; the original plastic wheels were chipped and, well, generally horrible. The wheels under the tender and the cab will be similarly replaced.

 

I normally use Mr Muscle Oven Cleaner to strip paint. I did here, but had my doubts as, once before, it would not even touch the surface of an old Wrenn Castle [i had to resort to bead blasting to strip that one]. It did fail to strip much and a caustic soda bath will follow.

 

In the meantime I have been able to consider alterations to the casting although I intend keeping the model as original as possible. The original buffers had to be removed as they were both bent and incapable of straightening without snapping: a consequence of the model clearly having been dropped at some time [of which more, later]. On closer inspection, I also noticed that they were separate castings, fitted in during manufacture. At that time, one of the buffers was fitted at an angle, resulting in the square casing being twisted: that, too, was aesthetically unacceptable. But removing the castings without damaging the buffer beam and rivet mouldings was going to be a problem...

 

It wasn't. I was lucky, and by twisting the buffer castings with some pliers, they sheared away, leaving their fixing shanks in the sockets in the buffer beam. These were easy to tap out, clearing the holes without damage. This is what I was left with [you can note how ineffective oven cleaner is on these locos!]:

 

 

 

I have ordered some correct Markits sprung oval buffers as replacements: they should now be an easy fit. A scale coupling hook will be applied also [i think, anyway].

 

During that earlier fall, the front of the body casting was bent also, resulting in the buffer beam dropping below the horizontal. This was unsightly and had to be rectified, but without snapping it off or cracking it in any way. A sharp tap on the carpet - and an equally sharp intake of breath - straightened things up nicely. 

 

Re-wheeling the front bogie, the Cartazzi-type thing and the tender was surprisingly difficult as the plastic wheels were forced onto splined axles which did not want to give up their running gear. I used a wheel press for this task and it required a surprising amount of pressure too. Without it, I think that there would have been a real risk of bending the axles.

 

In the post, along with the buffers, are a set of etched red [and so, as built] nameplates. At 33mm, these are over-length, being designed specifically for renaming these old Dublo locos. Not cheap but necessary. I have not bought any paint yet either, but will use Halfords' Rover Damask Red over a red oxide primer. Lining and lettering will be by Pressfix. I reckon I can bring the lot home for less that £30. 

 

After a ten minute soak in a moderately gloopy mix of caustic soda [50gms:1 litre cold water], a wash in warm soapy water and a buff with a scourer I had this.  Compare with the above photo:

 

 

I have never used caustic before and for metal, from now on, it's my poison of choice. It's amazing how warm the solution gets too, just telling you its bad stuff. A worrying amount of fizzing was going on also, but no damage occurred to any part of the casting.

 

All the body requires now is a little dressing with files to removing original casting flash. Then priming...

 

Inspection of the plastic tender body showed one or two areas of light damage to the rear: the top edge beading is chipped and two steps are broken. These are easy fixes but will be done after the body has been thoroughly cleaned and degreased. The easiest way to deal with the beading will be to remove the lot and reinstate it with similar sized plastic strip.

 

 

to be continued.....

 

Tony

 

 

 

[brianusa]

Dublo and Wrenn get fair coverage in the Collectible and Vintage section.

 

Brian

[Prometheus]

I've spent 30 minutes reinstating the two steps [found one of them on the carpet !] and the beading. The tender body is ready for priming now and, weather permitting, both it and the loco body will be covered in red oxide tomorrow [primer seems to tolerate damp weather quite well].

 

 

Tony

[sagaguy]

Check out "playing with Hornby Dublo"pages in collectible & vintage,lots of restorations on there.

 

               Here`s a taster.

 

Modelmaster HD heritage series nameplates.

 

 

                                 Ray.

[Prometheus]

I shall go there now Ray. I might be some time....

 

Tony

[BR60103]

Tony: when we bought our first Mini, it was Damask Red.  I wrote to my uncle in Scotland that we had an LMS Red Mini. His daughters didn't know what that was. His friend, who regarded himself as "an old Caley man", was amused.

[Il Grifone]

New tender bodies are still available from Wrenngalore on eBay at 2 for a tenner They are less the vents, but these can be recovered from the old tender or are available separately (or with a body at £12.99).

 

I would agree that 'Mr. Muscle' is useless (it's caustic soda IIRC, but a dilute solution - adequate for grease but not Dublo paint) and 'Nitromors' isn't much better. Caustic Soda is nasty stuff and needs to be handled with extreme care. In my youth (a long time ago), I used it hot to strip my 'Bristol Castle' - luckily I got away with it! (I didn't repeat this act of folly!)

 

This might be useful: (pedantic mode! from this it can be seen that the rare Dublo 'Atholl' with deflectors should be black not maroon).

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0ahUKEwjmp9Ke4aXSAhXHKsAKHeTBChQQFggzMAY&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffox-transfers.co.uk%2Ffileuploader%2Fdownload%2Fdownload%2F%3Fd%3D0%26file%3Dcustom%252Fupload%252FFile-1411588607.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEc_NRpyzICHdXgSzMHuBlPEMNJnw&sig2=biYf_dB-PMT-fHuOhgemJQ&cad=rja.

 

'Duchess of Atholl' received a streamlined tender in 1946 (OK, as this is Dublo's interpretation of a streamlined tender (not 100% correct as it should have a ladder not steps). Her original tender ended up on 'City of Liverpool'!  She had the curved GWR style front plating, of course.

 

http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/modules/downloads.html

 

 

Finding a lost part on the carpet must be a first!  

 

Gentle bending using pliers will usually correct bent mazak, but it is a brittle material and one try is all you get.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Il Grifone

[sagaguy]

I use Homebase own brand paint stripper,this has worked on the Trix & HD restorations that i have done so far.

 

            http://www.homebase.co.uk/en/homebaseuk/homebase-paint-and-varnish-stripper---500ml-105196

 

   Ray.

Edited February 23, 2017 by sagaguy

[Prometheus]

Thanks David and I appreciate the links also: helpful.

 

Caustic Soda is nasty stuff, you are correct, and very great care needs to be taken when using it, long rubber gloves and old clothes are only half of the precautions. It can get quite staggeringly hot also, hot enough to warm the casting thoroughly. The accelerating reaction with water is remarkable. Whilst effective, it is definitely the court of last resort for me and Mr Muscle generally does the trick [but I rarely have to removed stoved hard paint]. I do have some very clean drains however...

 

No pedantry at all with regard to deflectors and livery. I agonised over this but settled for red in the end, not least because of the other compromises inherent [tender, etc]. The exercise is not so much accuracy as originality, but I do take your point. That said, I have until the running plate is painted black before a final commitment.

 

Now, help me with this please. I thought too that the original  loco had the curved front plating, but look at this:

 

https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/R3553_3276653_Qty1_cat.jpg

 

That is advertised specifically as the new Hornby D of A although the text has detached from the photo.

 

And this, from Hornby's own website:

 

https://www.Hornby.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/s/1st-running-sample-3_1.jpg

 

I am certain that i have seen a photo of 'Atholl' with a cut away plate too [but I may be mistaken]. What do you think ? Was the running plate modified later in life ?

 

Thanks for your help - it is appreciated.

 

Ray - thanks for the tip, I may explore that, too.

 

Tony

Edited February 23, 2017 by Prometheus

[sagaguy]

The C of London is Railmatch BR crimson,the loco behind is Ford Damask red.

 

                         Ray.

[sagaguy]

Thanks David and I appreciate the links also: helpful.

 

Caustic Soda is nasty stuff, you are correct, and very great care needs to be taken when using it, long rubber gloves and old clothes are only half of the precautions. It can get quite staggeringly hot also, hot enough to warm the casting thoroughly. The accelerating reaction with water is remarkable. Whilst effective, it is definitely the court of last resort for me and Mr Muscle generally does the trick [but I rarely have to removed stoved hard paint]. I do have some very clean drains however...

 

No pedantry at all with regard to deflectors and livery. I agonised over this but settled for red in the end, not least because of the other compromises inherent [tender, etc]. The exercise is not so much accuracy as originality, but I do take your point. That said, I have until the running plate is painted black before a final commitment.

 

Now, help me with this please. I thought too that the original  loco had the curved front plating, but look at this:

 

https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/R3553_3276653_Qty1_cat.jpg

 

That is advertised specifically as the new Hornby D of A although the text has detached from the photo.

 

And this, from Hornby's own website:

 

https://www.Hornby.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/s/1st-running-sample-3_1.jpg

 

I am certain that i have seen a photo of 'Atholl' with a cut away plate too [but I may be mistaken]. What do you think ? Was the running plate modified later in life ?

 

Thanks for your help - it is appreciated.

 

Ray - thanks for the tip, I may explore that, too.

 

Tony

The Atholl was never streamlined,that`s why it has the curved running plate at the front.The photo is a model of an Ivatt Duchess with the cut away cab sheets & a Delta trailing truck.It was named Sir William Stanier FRS.I think there were two Ivatt locos.

 

                             Ray.

Edited February 23, 2017 by sagaguy

[Il Grifone]

This month's Hornby Desktop Calendar picture is a rather nice picture of 46256. The artist has missed that the later Coronations had riveted tenders, the last two with roller bearing axleboxes. The class is a minefield of detail differences!

 

The only running plate that was modified was that of 46242 'City of Glasgow', which was rebuilt with that type (The BR blue Wrenn model should have the 'semi' smokebox). Mine will be green when I get around to it (ex 'Montrose'). I only have one 'City' a 3 rail 'London', but rather a lot of 'Duchesses'*. Meccano Ltd. missed the opportunity to issue different numbers and possibly increase sales. This I will remedy in due course. I have a GBL streamlined 6220 Coronation (copied from the Hornby version). She should be blue of course, so the model is actually 6229 as shipped to the States, but without her headlight. (The pre-war Trix model had this.) One day I will fit a Dublo mech. and renumber her 6237 'City of Bristol'. The chassis I had lined up for her has ended up under a body I acquired cheaply (£2.50)  and will be finished as a replica CPR 1215. (It fooled nobody! and I wasn't going to bother...).

 

It shouldn't be too difficult to modify the running plate from 'utility' to curved type.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_Coronation_Class

 

* My first Dublo locomotive was an 'Atholl' and the class has always been a favourite. I did actually see some of them back in the day....

[Il Grifone]

omis

 

* My first Dublo locomotive was an 'Atholl' and the class has always been a favourite. I did actually see some of them back in the day....

 

If anyone is interested (probably not!) they were 46220/1/6/8/34/9/40-5/7/50/2/3.  I found my old Ian Allan abc (winter 60/1). The whole class was still in existence then.

[Prometheus]

This project took rather longer than I anticipated but it is, at last finished.

 

One compromise-ridden but otherwise very pretty Duchess of Atholl....

 

 

 

Yes, I know: deflector and running-plate anomalies. No-one in the club will realise though! She is also a very quiet runner.

 

Original parts throughout except for necessary replacement of front buffers and the wheels under the front bogie, trailing truck and tender. I did consider scale handrails/knobs but wanted to keep the model as original as I could.

 

Tony

[5050]

This project took rather longer than I anticipated but it is, at last finished.

 

One compromise-ridden but otherwise very pretty Duchess of Atholl....

 

 

 

 No-one in the club will realise though!

 

Sadly a sad indictment of a lot of modellers these days.  There was a time when such an anomaly in a model would result in a fair amount of suggestions as to why it is wrong - and what you should do about it.  I reckon that possibly 80% of current modellers blindly accept what the trade gives them and either can't be bothered, don't know anyway or don't know how to - check that it is right.

[Prometheus]

Sadly a sad indictment of a lot of modellers these days.  There was a time when such an anomaly in a model would result in a fair amount of suggestions as to why it is wrong - and what you should do about it.  I reckon that possibly 80% of current modellers blindly accept what the trade gives them and either can't be bothered, don't know anyway or don't know how to - check that it is right.

 

To be honest, I don't think that this is that much more than an issue of age: few younger modellers would have seen one of these in action and if club interests are anything to go by, there is probably more interest now in 'modern image' [whatever that now means!] than steam. I was listening to a conversation last night about the  faults on a newish 'oo' Class47 that was running around our test track. The parties concerned were less than half my age but knew - or seemed to at any rate because I certainly did not - what they were talking about. Show them a Dublo City however and they'd be in the dark [they were, in fact].

 

So I guess it's at least 80% Anno Domini.

 

Tony

Edited November 24, 2017 by Prometheus

[locomad]

Beautiful model so thanks for putting the pictures on, I like the colour too,very much like the later Cities colour. Very much like the lining too very neat and tidy assume it's 2 rail

 

I won't worry so much about modern image/models chances are your model will be running in 60 odd years

[APOLLO]

I have a tatty old 1960's Hornby Dublo "City of London". Passed down to me by my brother, and friends of friends etc (many owners). She still runs superb however, and romps round my layout with 12 on no trouble. 

 

I'll keep her as she is. She will probably last for ever.

 

Brit15

[sagaguy]

I have a tatty old 1960's Hornby Dublo "City of London". Passed down to me by my brother, and friends of friends etc (many owners). She still runs superb however, and romps round my layout with 12 on no trouble. 

 

I'll keep her as she is. She will probably last for ever.

 

Brit15

 

 

 What`s in a name anyway,an ex Atholl!!!.

 

                     Ray.

 

               

[Prometheus]

Beautiful model so thanks for putting the pictures on, I like the colour too,very much like the later Cities colour. Very much like the lining too very neat and tidy assume it's 2 rail

 

I won't worry so much about modern image/models chances are your model will be running in 60 odd years

 

That's absolutely my view: I don't know who'll have her in 60 years but she could well still be running happily then.

 

The lining - Pressfix for the boiler band / cylinder covers and a bow pen for the rest. The paint - Halford's Rover Damask Red - a delightfully rich, intense colour.

 

Aye, 2-rail, and thanks for the comments [all].

 

Incidentally, here's another die-cast lump of a loco that I did a year or so ago, an absolutely shocking Wrenn Devizes Castle reinvigorated as Penrice Castle [and how's that for a cab full of motor?]:

 

 

 

Original 'new' old stock Wrenn transfers [well, apparently....].

 

 

These projects are just so hugely satisfying.

 

Tony 

Edited November 24, 2017 by Prometheus

[locomad]

That's absolutely my view: I don't know who'll have her in 60 years but she could well still be running happily then.

 

The lining - Pressfix for the boiler band / cylinder covers and a bow pen for the rest. The paint - Halford's Rover Damask Red - a delightfully rich, intense colour.

 

Aye, 2-rail, and thanks for the comments [all].

 

 

 

Excellent work with the bow pen, I'am trying at the present to develop this skill, got the books advice etc getting there.

 

What I do like is the kind of Matt finish on the paint work did you use a Matt varnish or was it straight from the can?

[Prometheus]

Thanks for the comment Locomad. I use Testor's 'Dullcote' on pretty much everything these days, it provides a consistent flat finish and, so far at least, has been 100% reliable. The downside is cost: a small can is £5.50, that's tolerable until you add in postage, sometimes £6 or £7 from within the UK. So buy a few at exhibitions.

 

Tony

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here are some of my City/Duchess repaints.  I rarely do LMS but thought of a couple for a change.  The lining on the boiler (where done) and cylinders are all painted with the lines masked off.  The BR maroon I use is Peugeot Diablo red which is a metallic colour when applied but "disappears" when Railmatch satin varnish is applied, this can be seen in the photo with 2 bodies on as a before and after varnish comparison. You can see where the cylinders and tender base have not yet been varnished like the body has.  I cannot remember the colour used for the LMS loco but it was pretty close to Dublo's as can be seen in one of the photos with 3 bodies on, the top one is the repainted loco the centre is an original Dublo Atholl and the bottom an original Dublo City. The flash has made the LMS loco lighter in one view.

 

I prefer my lining transfers from Dennis Williams as Dublo replicas not Wrenn which are sometimes incorrect and not as strong. I also prefer the varnish/Meths fix as opposed to waterslide.

 

Garry

Edited November 25, 2017 by Golden Fleece 30

[sagaguy]

Thanks for the comment Locomad. I use Testor's 'Dullcote' on pretty much everything these days, it provides a consistent flat finish and, so far at least, has been 100% reliable. The downside is cost: a small can is £5.50, that's tolerable until you add in postage, sometimes £6 or £7 from within the UK. So buy a few at exhibitions.

 

Tony

 I always use Railmatch satin varish in an aerosol for my locos.Great paint but the spray heads clog with alarming rapidity,the have to taken apart & scrupulously cleaned.

 

            Is Testors an Acrylic,i havn`t used because i`m not certain if it`s ok with Fox or Modelmasters transfers.

           

                               Ray.

 

 

                  

[Golden Fleece 30]

Is Testors an Acrylic,i havn`t used because i`m not certain if it`s ok with Fox or Modelmasters transfers.

           

                               Ray.

 

I would stick with what you are happy with Ray.

 

I have read reports of different varnish's etc causing issues for different reasons, as well as the issue of acrylic never to be used on enamel, but cannot remember the names.  Some have said the whole model had to be stripped and redone so I keep away from any others.  Railmatch varnish will do all I need and I know its safe on my paints and transfers whether 00 or TT scale.

 

Garry

ps Crediton is a funny looking Duchess/City.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Golden Fleece 30