Restoring Dublo Coaches

[Wolseley]

I have two Dublo Southern Region suburban coaches which I need to do a bit of work on.  The sides and chassis are as good as new (judging from the wheels, they've hardly been used) but, for some odd reason, the roofs have discoloured paint and quite a bit of surface rust on them.  I was intending to take the roofs off, strip the paint off, treat the rust and then respray them before refitting them.  Now, I have done this to Dublo Gresley and D12 coaches (although I did find the Gresleys much more difficult to put back on than take off) but I can't get the roofs off the suburban coaches.  Are they put together the same way as the D12 coaches, or do I need to do something different to get them off?

[Il Grifone]

Unfortunately not, the roof is held on by tabs and its removal involves dismantling the entire coach. The D13 suburbans are the same. 

 

Mine are stashed away somewhere. They suffer from bufferlocking when propelled, but I have never found out why. They seem to be identical to all the other coaches on the same underframe, but obviously there is a subtle difference.

[peterfgf]

I have two Dublo Southern Region suburban coaches which I need to do a bit of work on.  The sides and chassis are as good as new (judging from the wheels, they've hardly been used) but, for some odd reason, the roofs have discoloured paint and quite a bit of surface rust on them.  I was intending to take the roofs off, strip the paint off, treat the rust and then respray them before refitting them.  Now, I have done this to Dublo Gresley and D12 coaches (although I did find the Gresleys much more difficult to put back on than take off) but I can't get the roofs off the suburban coaches.  Are they put together the same way as the D12 coaches, or do I need to do something different to get them off?

Hi

I've opened up a Hornby Dublo tinplate suburban coach a few months ago.  The body is secured to the chassis by folded tinplate lugs which are easy to bend open with a small screwdriver.  The roof slides onto longitudinal gutter-ways on the top of each coach side and is held in position by a folded lug in the middle of each side.  It should be possible to bend this out of the way and slide the roof off (not that I've done this!).  I've attached a photo which should make things a bit clearer.

Peterfgf

 

[Golden Fleece 30]

That is the old version with tin windows. The glazed window version is completely different. Once you get it as in the photo there are 10 tabs on the roof folded over slots in a lip formed from the top edge of the side folded over.

 

The southern suburbans were all the glazed type.

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

There's no real need to slide anything with the all tinplate coaches Just lightly press the sides in about a quarter of the way along and the roof will spring out of the groove that holds it on. It then snaps back on*. The piece in the centre locates the roof and stops it sliding off and stops the sides being pressed inwards by rough handling (it was intended as a toy after all), The goods vans manage with a roof that just slides off (apart from the LWB van ( an ex GWR MINK D), which is held by tabs in a similar manner to the suburbans with windows).

 

*If it doesn't the tinplate is probably distorted slightly.

 

They probably changed the design, thlnking the windows would weaken the side. The Stanier coaches and Collett restaurant cars suffer from sides that tend to bow inwards at the ends.

[peterfgf]

Hi

I've opened up a Hornby Dublo tinplate suburban coach a few months ago.  The body is secured to the chassis by folded tinplate lugs which are easy to bend open with a small screwdriver.  The roof slides onto longitudinal gutter-ways on the top of each coach side and is held in position by a folded lug in the middle of each side.  It should be possible to bend this out of the way and slide the roof off (not that I've done this!).  I've attached a photo which should make things a bit clearer.

Peterfgf

 

Hornby Dublol tinplate suburban IMG_3047r.JPG

Apologies for that.  I had forgotten that there was a version between the all-tinplate sides and the latter plastic roofed coaches.  I think these were also rather on the short side but had plastic glazed windows.

Peterfgf

[Il Grifone]

According to the 'bible', the Dublo suburbans were drawn pre-war, but had to wait 15 years to be released. There is a possibility that they were to be articulated like the Gresley corridor coaches. The latter are based on 52' 6" length all steel designs, so the models are not as bad as it first seems*. (I keep toying with the idea of cutting out the windows, but all that metal work puts me off....). A BR articulated set would be fun! I assume the Dublo BR models are incorrect, as they have faux panelling, which I doubt appeared on any repaints. A full third, which Dublo never did in BR livery, is needed for the articulated pair. (Originally they ran in sets Bk/3rd-3rd + 1st/3rd + 3rd-3rd/Bk. Ideal for a small layout but not really a suitable train for an A4. Maybe a Trix D49? Sorry, that's heresy!). A triplet or quad suburban unit would be a good talking point!

 

I did make up a twin unit about ten years ago and put it on eBay thinking it might sell well, seeing the price fake corridor units make. Needless to say, the price realised ensured I didn't repeat the exercise....

 

* They could have made them a couple of centimetres longer and full length, but I suppose the resulting box was considered too long.

[Wolseley]

There's no real need to slide anything with the all tinplate coaches Just lightly press the sides in about a quarter of the way along and the roof will spring out of the groove that holds it on. It then snaps back on*. The piece in the centre locates the roof and stops it sliding off and stops the sides being pressed inwards by rough handling (it was intended as a toy after all), The goods vans manage with a roof that just slides off (apart from the LWB van ( an ex GWR MINK D), which is held by tabs in a similar manner to the suburbans with windows).

 

*If it doesn't the tinplate is probably distorted slightly.

 

Looks and sounds pretty much like the Gresley coaches I removed the roofs from (and put them back afterwards of course).

[Wolseley]

* They could have made them a couple of centimetres longer and full length, but I suppose the resulting box was considered too long.

 

It would not be acceptable today, of course, as everything now has to be 100% accurate, but having the coaches slightly shorter than the actual scale length does work quite well, given the compressed nature of a model railway layout (particularly in1940s/1950s style layouts), the lengths of stations and the short runs between stations, as well as giving less overhang on the sharp radius curves that used to be common on layouts (and indeed are unavoidable if you use genuine Dublo 3 rail track).

 

We have been baby-sitting our grandson for the last three days and I have some rails set up on the dining room table.  It’s about 7 feet long and is wide enough to take large radius curves with a bit of room to spare, so I have a double oval of track on it, with a reverse curve in the inner oval.  Today I had the Co-Bo on the inner track with three Southern Region superdetail corridor coaches (I know it’s not the sort of train they were used on but he wanted a diesel with some passenger coaches…..) and Sir Nigel Gresley with five teak coaches on the outer tracks.  To my mind the Gresley coaches looked more convincingly realistic, especially when they went around the bends.  Sometimes accuracy isn’t everything.

[Il Grifone]

It would not be acceptable today, of course, as everything now has to be 100% accurate, but having the coaches slightly shorter than the actual scale length does work quite well, given the compressed nature of a model railway layout (particularly in1940s/1950s style layouts), the lengths of stations and the short runs between stations, as well as giving less overhang on the sharp radius curves that used to be common on layouts (and indeed are unavoidable if you use genuine Dublo 3 rail track).

 

We have been baby-sitting our grandson for the last three days and I have some rails set up on the dining room table.  It’s about 7 feet long and is wide enough to take large radius curves with a bit of room to spare, so I have a double oval of track on it, with a reverse curve in the inner oval.  Today I had the Co-Bo on the inner track with three Southern Region superdetail corridor coaches (I know it’s not the sort of train they were used on but he wanted a diesel with some passenger coaches…..) and Sir Nigel Gresley with five teak coaches on the outer tracks.  To my mind the Gresley coaches looked more convincingly realistic, especially when they went around the bends.  Sometimes accuracy isn’t everything.

 

Three Gresleys or suburbans will fit in the length of the standard Dublo station although they do overhang the ramps. The Gresleys are only a few scale feet short, whereas the Mk I coaches are about 10 scale feet short. Compared to this the curves are about a chain and a half radius or a quarter of what the real thing could manage.

 

I have a Lima C38 (3830), but she is the non-streamlined type. I bought her in Italy but was only able to get a coach and an open wagon for her to pull. Hornby have recently reintroduced the coaches, as you are no doubt aware, but the price is now considerably more than I paid for mine.

 

This one - I paid 40.000 Italian Lire for her, but she was second hand (though still in her box) and it was the eighties. IIRC the coach was 5,000£ (It sounds a lot, but the Lira converted to the Euro at nearly 2,000 to 1.)

 

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=52693

[Wolseley]

I have a Lima C38 (3830), but she is the non-streamlined type. I bought her in Italy but was only able to get a coach and an open wagon for her to pull. Hornby have recently reintroduced the coaches, as you are no doubt aware.

 

 

Interesting.  Actually I wasn't aware it had been reissued.  I suppose it still has a totally incorrect tender......

 

Back on the subject of Dublo coaches, it looks like I'll be doing a bit of dismantling some time soon then.  I have tried cleaning up the roofs, but it only made a marginal difference.  The Southern coaches will have to wait until I've resprayed the roofs of a rake of "blood and custard" Gresley coaches though.

 

And can someone tell me how to take a superdetail corridor coach apart?  I wanted to swap over two underframes and undid the screw in the underside but nothing much happened.  Do the railings at the coach ends hold the roof on and, if so, what is the best way to get them off without damaging them?

[Golden Fleece 30]

The S/D coaches are a little harder. After the screw there are about 8 tabs folded over under the underframe. Once straightened lift all the top off with ends. The roof is heat riveted into the shell and the pin goes through the ends which have a moulding with a hole in it. After breaking the head off the heat formed plastic pin all parts can be dismantled. Often the pin snaps off the roof though. The ends do need carefully prising outwards as they do clip under the shell. The wires are clipped in the roof but folded over inside the ends.

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

Interesting.  Actually I wasn't aware it had been reissued.  I suppose it still has a totally incorrect tender......

 

Back on the subject of Dublo coaches, it looks like I'll be doing a bit of dismantling some time soon then.  I have tried cleaning up the roofs, but it only made a marginal difference.  The Southern coaches will have to wait until I've resprayed the roofs of a rake of "blood and custard" Gresley coaches though.

 

And can someone tell me how to take a superdetail corridor coach apart?  I wanted to swap over two underframes and undid the screw in the underside but nothing much happened.  Do the railings at the coach ends hold the roof on and, if so, what is the best way to get them off without damaging them?

 

I think the C38's tender is from their model of an SNCF 141R. I have one of these that Lima slightly modified to pass off as an Mikado for the American market (She still came with Lima's version of the Continental loop coupling ('dunny' coupling I believe it's called  Very appropriate!) . OK I suppose, they were built over there! (Not the tenders IIRC)  I keep meaning to do something about the front end which doesn't look 'right' *. She has the same tender as the C38. I don't know about a reissue, as I bought mine about thirty years ago. (One of those impulse purchases....)

 

* Convert her back into a 141R perhaps?

 

To just swap the coach bodies, there is no need to touch the roofs. It's just necessary to lift the tabs. Putting them back together is not so easy! The sides are in one piece with a false roof and the ends plug in with a piece that fits between the false roof and the true roof. A peg at each end of the roof fits through this and then through the false roof where it is melted over. There's not enough plastic to repeat the procedure, so an alternative method has to be devised - I've used screws.  

[BR60103]

I don't know the SD coaches, but I think the Pullmans come apart if you undo the bogie screws.

[Il Grifone]

I don't know the SD coaches, but I think the Pullmans come apart if you undo the bogie screws.

 

That's true. There'are two long screws which hold the bogies and body on to the floor. Care is needed, as the screw fits inside a piece of tubing which inevitably falls on the floor. It's chemically blackened so immediately scuttles into hiding.... It serves to prevent the body being overtightened, so it can be dispensed with at worst. A replacement is fairly easy to make of course. the second trap is that the window glazing* falls out when the body comes apart. This is harder to replace as the glazing bars are printed on it.

 

* Two strips along the sides and two mouldings for the door and end windows. The latter should be cemented to the body, but I have found they have sometimes come unstuck.

 

Body swapping here has to be like for like as the underframes are different and take care with the table lamps which are very delicate and easily broken. Painting the interior is a great improvement, but it depends how much originality is prized. There are bogie variations too. The earliest ones had equalised Gresley bogies (correct for 'Aries') and later ones a rigid BR type. The equalised bogies sometimes have been riveted a bit too tightly and tend to jam. A little levering with a screwdriver will cure this. They run much better with metal wheels! Wrenn produced other numbers (correct) and names ('Aries' was a 'one-off' AFAIK). Needless to say, their cream paint does not match the Dublo shade (and varies between batches!).

 

I have in programme to rename a couple as 'Luciana' and 'Astrid' after my wife and daughter (I've had a sheet of Wrenn transfers to do this in stock for some time), but lettering is not one of my favourite jobs. Lots of my stock still has plain bodies Graham Farish style....

[Wolseley]

The reason I was thinking of swapping the underframes on the superdetail coaches was that I had a rake of four Southern Region coaches I was not intending to use for shunting or for running the engine around (yes, that's right, they were just going to chase themselves round and round).  Trouble was one of the couplings on a composite coach was broken and I was thinking of swapping its underframe with one from a Brake/Second leaving the broken coupling at the Brake end - it would look better than having one of those big plastic things sticking out.  As it seems to be more trouble than it's worth, I think I'll just fit a new coupling - it sounds easier.

[locomad]

. Needless to say, their cream paint does not match the Dublo shade (and varies between batches!).

 

 

 

I've a rake of HD Pullmans, all purchased about the same time, all stored in same place, all left on layout for about the same time, all have led the same life.

 

Yet now there is marked difference between paint colours especially the cream and to some extent the roof, some have gone much darker almost a greenish cream while others seem a lot lighter, all apart from one have fixed bogies, all have thick plastic coupling.

 

So was this due to different paint batches used in the factory.

 

30 years ago they all looked the same as i put on either end a wrenn emu pullman all the colours matched then

[Golden Fleece 30]

Pullmans were only fitted with plastic couplings.  I think only one of the three variations had the compensated bogies (brake?). This was due to them realising that these bogies were giving problems so resorted to the solid cast ones again on all S/D coaches not just the Pullmans. 

 

I am not 100% sure but I think different paint batches are the problem but I don't have any Dublo Pullmans any more, they were my least favourite vehicle in Dublo's range.

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

My Dublo Pullmans are all much the same shade of cream (as are most of my Farish Pullmans (curvy, but still cream!) and the Tri-ang ones too). Conversely I don't think any two Wrenn examples are quite the same. Concerning the Dublo models it could well be different paint batches of course, as most of mine have the rigid bogies.

 

The first Dublo SD6 coaches had the equalised bogies, but it was found that they were prone to derailment if the sideframes didn't move freely* and later batches had the rigid type. The Pullmans came rather late in the Dublo era so I doubt there were at most more than three batches.

 

*They hold the track well otherwise I find, especially if fitted with metal wheels, which also run more freely.

[Wolseley]

My Pullmans (I have four of them) all have equalised bogies, as do my two sleeper coaches, but all four of my Southern Region coaches have rigid bogies.  I can't say I've seen any difference in the riding quality of any of them.  The only trouble of any sort I have experienced with derailing is with the pony truck of my Duchess of Atholl when reversing over pointwork - but that's another story altogether.

[Golden Fleece 30]

All the SR coaches, and BR maroon S/D suburbans, were fitted with ridged bogies as that was the norm by the time they appeared. I personally never experienced many problems over good track that I can remember with the compensated bogies.

 

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

I've not had problems with Duchess pony trucks apart from distorted drawbars fouling them and one which had a bent axle. Judicious use of pliers sorted both problems. It's not unknown for Dublo wheelsets to be out of gauge. Their 14.2mm back to back was rather flexible....

 

Compensated bogies give no trouble at all, as long as the sideframes move freely. They are riveted over so it is quite possible for them to be tight. Easy enough to sort. I have had a couple of the tinplate axle supports (I hesitate to call them bearings) with burred edges - one had worn a groove in the axle. One  SD6 fullbrake dragged badly with nylon wheelsets. metal wheels (or rather the axles) cured that. IIRC it has compensated bogies. Strangely my 'Bristol Castle' would only pull 6 maroon coaches without slipping (the layout I've shown elsewhere - Dublo Layout), but would easily manage 7 Western Region ones. I suppose it shows the superiority of things GWR albeit natioanlised....

[locomad]

Fitting metal wheels to 2 rail stock is something which i am starting to due mainly due to wear in the plastic axles which causes drag and uneven running.

 

Method i use which is tried and tested over 30 years is to convert 3 rail wheels for running on 2 rail, it was done originally as 3 rail stock cost much less years ago as everyone then wanted 2 rail items , how things have changed.

 

Photo shows convert ed stock

 

Method is to remove axle, pull off wheels, drill larger hole, fit bush using plastic ear bud sticks, refit wheel, fit small clear plastic washer on outside wheel to prevent arcing, replace.

 

Cause not as simple as that as i use couple of home made jigs to speed process up.

 

Have noticed stock converted has better running less drag (rolling resistance) some stock will roll on slopes of 1:40, i have on the layout a "hump" such stock "behaves" better ie does not stick half way down a siding.

 

Another advantage is wheels often rust making them more realistic

[Il Grifone]

Fitting metal wheels to 2 rail stock is something which i am starting to due mainly due to wear in the plastic axles which causes drag and uneven running.

 

Method i use which is tried and tested over 30 years is to convert 3 rail wheels for running on 2 rail, it was done originally as 3 rail stock cost much less years ago as everyone then wanted 2 rail items , how things have changed.

 

Photo shows convert ed stockIMG_20170323_210529.jpg

 

Method is to remove axle, pull off wheels, drill larger hole, fit bush using plastic ear bud sticks, refit wheel, fit small clear plastic washer on outside wheel to prevent arcing, replace.

 

Cause not as simple as that as i use couple of home made jigs to speed process up.

 

Have noticed stock converted has better running less drag (rolling resistance) some stock will roll on slopes of 1:40, i have on the layout a "hump" such stock "behaves" better ie does not stick half way down a siding.

 

Another advantage is wheels often rust making them more realistic

 

I usually manage to drill the wheels off centre.... (Memo: Buy some reamers!). It's a pity the sintered iron wheels have such a poor profile. Unfortunately Nucro wheels to Dublo standards are very hard to find today. It's interesting that they run more freely seeing that the axles are the same. Perhaps the insulating washer helps. What type of plastic do you use?

I fitted a WELTROL with pin point bearings, but it's such a pain pinpointing the axles. This was a 'scale' conversion. Unfortunately the Dublo tinplate axle hangers are slightly less than 24mm apart (and vary). It doesn't matter with plain axles, but it's critical with pin-points.

 

I have a Tri-ang 'Hymek' which runs on Dublo rolling stock wheels - every little helps in getting the ride height down.

[Wolseley]

I've not had problems with Duchess pony trucks apart from distorted drawbars fouling them and one which had a bent axle. Judicious use of pliers sorted both problems. It's not unknown for Dublo wheelsets to be out of gauge. Their 14.2mm back to back was rather flexible....

 

 

I suspect that is the problem - I'll have to get something to measure it with so I can check it properly.