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Restoring Dublo Coaches


Wolseley
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Reference to the insulating washers, i don't know type of plastic, they are made from clear very thin plastic sheet used to display toys and the like in boxes. I think at the time they came from packing used to display "Action Men".

 

I use two hole punches to make the washers.

 

To get the Hornby dublo wheels drilled dead center i use an unimat mark 1 lathe, then a couple of home made jigs to push on the brushes then the wheels while spacing between the back to back is held in another jig.

 

Bit time consuming but worth it, i also apply very light oil to the axles and test the stock rolling resistance on a test slope set at 1:30, read somewhere this is what Hornby recommended.

 

I've a supply of 3 rail wheels as used to use peco wheels to convert stock, but stopped doing that as found their axles tend to wharp or bend over time resulting in wobble.

 

Original Hornby dublo 2 rail plastic can also wharp, but i suspect it's due to previous owners trying to convert 3 rail by snapping 3 rail axles in situ, then bending 2 rail wheels to get them in place this not needing to remove tags. I've read about this method somewhere in a 60's model magazine such was the fashion then to convert to 2 rail.

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I have also found there is often a burr on the tread at the front edge of the 3-rail wheels so I file that and the back ones off, replace the wheels then use a small wire brush in a Dremel "polish" the tread which gives a smoother surface to run on the rail.  I have replaced a lot of 2-rail nylon wheels with the Dublo sintered iron ones but leave as 3-rail as that is what my layout is.

 

Garry

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Reference to the insulating washers, i don't know type of plastic, they are made from clear very thin plastic sheet used to display toys and the like in boxes. I think at the time they came from packing used to display "Action Men".

 

I use two hole punches to make the washers.

 

To get the Hornby dublo wheels drilled dead center i use an unimat mark 1 lathe, then a couple of home made jigs to push on the brushes then the wheels while spacing between the back to back is held in another jig.

 

Bit time consuming but worth it, i also apply very light oil to the axles and test the stock rolling resistance on a test slope set at 1:30, read somewhere this is what Hornby recommended.

 

I've a supply of 3 rail wheels as used to use peco wheels to convert stock, but stopped doing that as found their axles tend to wharp or bend over time resulting in wobble.

 

Original Hornby dublo 2 rail plastic can also wharp, but i suspect it's due to previous owners trying to convert 3 rail by snapping 3 rail axles in situ, then bending 2 rail wheels to get them in place this not needing to remove tags. I've read about this method somewhere in a 60's model magazine such was the fashion then to convert to 2 rail.

 

Unfortunately I don't possess a Unimat! :(   That makes an easy job of drilling the wheels true. 1 in 30 is quoted in the 'Dublo Bible' as the minimum gradient to start from rest. Pinpoint bearings will start on much less. Some will even roll away on surfaces that one thinks are flat.

 

I remember reading about that method of converting rolling stock.  The author used Peco wheels and, knowing the delicacy of these things, I thought at the time that it was not really a good idea. There were better and/or cheaper alternatives even then. They would have required dismantling of the vehicle, but that is relatively straight forward to do.

 

I'm not a fan of plastic wheels (apart from centres - tyres and axles must be metal). Years ago, I read in a magazine that someone replaced the wheels (Jackson) of K's kits with Peco to have them all the same. I would have gone the other way.... Mixing makes of wheels is not a problem anyway; it's only important that they match the track standards. A decent profile is a refinement.

Edited by Il Grifone
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I forgot to mention that the transparent plastic in boxes is probably cellulose acetate or some close relative. It folds readily, unlike polystyrene which breaks. The later is better for windows in model buildings etc. I have a large sheet of thin acrylic plastic in stock which is better still,

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I forgot to mention that the transparent plastic in boxes is probably cellulose acetate or some close relative. It folds readily, unlike polystyrene which breaks. The later is better for windows in model buildings etc. I have a large sheet of thin acrylic plastic in stock which is better still,

I would have thought fibre washers would be better.   I have rewheeled a lot of Dublo bogies with Lima wheels and romford pin point bearings , the flanged type. I file the top flat until they fit the bogie nicely then use the retainer to keep them from falling out rather than soldering them to the retainer,  This leaves the bogie live to one side which I use to advantage for powering lights.   The Lima wheels are ugly but seem to run nicer than metal H/D which seem too flat over the tread.

I just sold 16 axles worth of 3 rail wheels on Ebay before finding the advice on sleeving them for 2 rail, and I've got an old Emco lathe and cotton buds as well!.

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I would have thought fibre washers would be better.   I have rewheeled a lot of Dublo bogies with Lima wheels and romford pin point bearings , the flanged type. I file the top flat until they fit the bogie nicely then use the retainer to keep them from falling out rather than soldering them to the retainer,  This leaves the bogie live to one side which I use to advantage for powering lights.   The Lima wheels are ugly but seem to run nicer than metal H/D which seem too flat over the tread.

I just sold 16 axles worth of 3 rail wheels on Ebay before finding the advice on sleeving them for 2 rail, and I've got an old Emco lathe and cotton buds as well!.

 

Peco do the  washers, but they are quite expensive and IIRC they are intended for their Insulaxles which are smaller in diameter than today's 2mm and of course Dublo axles, which are larger again. Acetate has the advantage of being cheap, but you have to make them yourself. Nylon might be an alternative (eBay) or better PTFE. Probably the washers present a smaller contact area between wheel and hanger and reduce the wheel/underframe slop.

 

Lima's wheel profile is dreadful with a sharp angle between tread and flange, but at least they are coned. Dublo metal wheels stand rigidly at 90° from horizontal tread to vertical flange. They bought them in from a third party (according to the 'bible'), but obviously didn't specify them properly. The earlier mazak wheels (when they don't beak up!) and the later nylon wheels are a lot better. 

 

The wheel standards are about the only Dublo feature to survive Tri-ang's take over and all the later models use these (until the modern adoption of BRMSB/NMRA standards).Lima seem to have adopted them earlier on, as all Lima production seems to have the same standard wheels and run perfectly on Dublo track Their competitor Rivarossi used similar standards, but their back to back is a trifle small for Dublo's gauge variations*. A Peco washer or similar between the wheel halves solves this. (The wheelsets are in two parts like Tri-ang, but force fitted to the axle not splined to one wheel.)  I have used the smaller Rivarossi wheels to convert Trix stock, but they are a fraction smaller than the Trix wheel. I have some Trix wagons fitted with Tri-ang wheels, which have been welded together with a soldering iron by the look of it. (Not by me, they were bought like that.) These run OK on plain track, but bump slightly on the pointwork due to the deep flanges.

 

Dublo track is quite picky as regards wheels, but that is only to be expected.

 

*Pre-war points are better engineered as the blades come nearer to the end of the rail and avoid the large increase in gauge at the blades (18mm) that results from about a linear inch of one straight stock rail and the other curved at just under 15 inch radius. Straightening out this curve a bit with flat jawed pliers helps I find. (Serrated jaws will damage the rail and too much straightening will cause problems with the movement of the blades.)

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I've not had problems with Duchess pony trucks apart from distorted drawbars fouling them and one which had a bent axle. Judicious use of pliers sorted both problems. It's not unknown for Dublo wheelsets to be out of gauge. Their 14.2mm back to back was rather flexible....

 

 

I suspect that is the problem - I'll have to get something to measure it with so I can check it properly.

 

Looks like that is the problem.  I just reversed it over an uncoupling ramp and it stuck.....

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David, modern Peco washers (R8) are not bad and over 2mm ID as I use them on 2mm axles.  These are now grey/white colour and I use them on my TT replacement wheel sets.

 

Garry

 

Garry,

It looks like I'm behind the times - all the ones I have are fibre. They are rather pricey these days for washers. It looks like they are either nylon or PTFE.

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like that is the problem.  I just reversed it over an uncoupling ramp and it stuck.....

 

 

Obviously it shouldn't. Possibly the axle is bent, as the uncoupling ramp is relatively narrow (half an inch IIRC).

 

Unusually, last night I had both my vernier caliper and a Dublo R1 chassis to hand and checked - 14.2mm. There should be no problem with driving wheels as the axle is shouldered. Rolling stock wheels are another matter.

As a first check a simple ruler should allow measurement to within ±1mm which is near enough for Dublo. That's not to say that a more accurate setting should not be aimed for. (NMRA tolerances are quite tight and a normal engineering tolerance is ± half the last figure for example.)

 

Not much use to our Australian friends but 'Screwfix' offer this:

 

http://www.screwfix.com/p/forge-steel-vernier-caliper/5416C?kpid=5416C&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%2520Listing%2520Ads-_-Sales%2520Tracking-_-sales%2520tracking%2520url&gclid=CPWix6fo_dICFTco0wodAekH9Q&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CIGs-Kfo_dICFesR0wodXL0G_A

 

I would agree with the reviewers comments about digital devices. Mine has tolerances of + 0.2mm and - 0.1mm.  A decent vernier measures to ±0.05mm

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I have two Dublo Southern Region suburban coaches which I need to do a bit of work on.  The sides and chassis are as good as new (judging from the wheels, they've hardly been used) but, for some odd reason, the roofs have discoloured paint and quite a bit of surface rust on them.  I was intending to take the roofs off, strip the paint off, treat the rust and then respray them before refitting them.  Now, I have done this to Dublo Gresley and D12 coaches (although I did find the Gresleys much more difficult to put back on than take off) but I can't get the roofs off the suburban coaches.  Are they put together the same way as the D12 coaches, or do I need to do something different to get them off?

 

 

Unfortunately not, the roof is held on by tabs and its removal involves dismantling the entire coach. The D13 suburbans are the same. 

 

Mine are stashed away somewhere. They suffer from bufferlocking when propelled, but I have never found out why. They seem to be identical to all the other coaches on the same underframe, but obviously there is a subtle difference.

 

 

Well, with a combination of brute force and extreme care, I finally got around to dismantling them.  For the benefit of anyone who is following this, here are some photographs to show how they are put together:

 

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That was the easy part! Getting all the tabs in place when putting them back together is tricky and scratches the floor, if one is not careful. Twisting the tabs rather than bending them may be easier and cause less distress to the tinplate, but this is not an option for the ones under the bogies of course.

 

Cutting the glazing into sections can solve the problem of gaps due to shrinkage. The LMS coaches are particularly subject to this.

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That was the easy part!

 

 

I cleaned up and resprayed the roofs last night and put everything back together this afternoon.  Actually I found putting them back together again was easier than taking them apart.  It's not an exercise that I particularly want to go through again though.  If I buy any more suburban coaches I think I'll make sure that the roofs as well as the sides are in excellent condition.

 

I also cleaned up and resprayed the roofs of my LMS coaches (much easier to tackle than the suburbans) at the same time, so now I have a respectable looking train for my newly renovated Duchess of Atholl to haul.

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