Southern Railway Modelling - Miscellaneous Project work

[SR Chris]

We've all been there!

[Bustered]

Been there, done that!

Love seeing the updates

Best wishes

Nige

[chris45lsw]

Update!

 

A massive failure and oversight on my behalf has left me with this!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not only are the numbers on the bunker the wrong size, it's also got incorrect frames for the number, which is odd to me because the base model was BR 30584 with these frames, but the soon to be released Oxford rail version with this number has different front frames, so i'm not sure where the muck up has occurred. Either way the numbers are still too big, which is a shame, because IMO it actually came out quite nice, and looks ok with the larger numbers.

 

Ah well, live and learn, Will probably take a back seat for now though, while I finish off the T9 lurking in the back there

 

As always thanks for reading!

Hello Jack

 

Your engine does have the correct frames (fitted by the SR in 1930) which were common to 3125 and 3520.  3488 was the odd one out because it retained its original frames.  However in 1947 3520 had a Drummond boiler so you'd be better re-numbering it as 3125 which did have an Adams boiler from 1945 to 1954.

 

The M7s which were painted malachite green by the SR were:-

242  Dec 1946

243  Aug 1947

676  Dec 1947

 

but, according to Peter Swift ('The Book of the M7 0-4-4Ts' / Irwell Press)  242 & 243 were not lined, unlike 676 and the BR repaints.

 

Three more were done by BR, so they had 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' (Gill Sans) on the side tanks:-

30038  Aug 1948

30241  July 1948

30244  Sep 1948

 

All, as said before, all short frame locos.

 

Love the quality of your modelling by the way!

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

[Jack P]

I hate to say so, but it seems to be even worse - it has 3250 on one side as well...............

 

Would you believe I actually wrote the number down and had it on a bit of paper infront of me!

 

Hello Jack

 

Your engine does have the correct frames (fitted by the SR in 1930) which were common to 3125 and 3520.  3488 was the odd one out because it retained its original frames.  However in 1947 3520 had a Drummond boiler so you'd be better re-numbering it as 3125 which did have an Adams boiler from 1945 to 1954.

 

The M7s which were painted malachite green by the SR were:-

242  Dec 1946

243  Aug 1947

676  Dec 1947

 

but, according to Peter Swift ('The Book of the M7 0-4-4Ts' / Irwell Press)  242 & 243 were not lined, unlike 676 and the BR repaints.

 

Three more were done by BR, so they had 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' (Gill Sans) on the side tanks:-

30038  Aug 1948

30241  July 1948

30244  Sep 1948

 

All, as said before, all short frame locos.

 

Love the quality of your modelling by the way!

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

 

Thanks so much Chris, I think it will end up as 3125, hopefully that's the number it actually ends up with on the sides!   this gives me a chance to change the number size too! Thank you for the info on the M7's, looks like 243 is the only option for renumbering then. I may have to deal with it being lined, but I do recall there being a discussion about unlined malachite on a few engines, looks very odd but If i can renumber I could probably take the lining off too!

 

Unfortunately up next is ANOTHER renumber, this time however, I come to you, the general public, before attacking it with numbers, I was thinking 726, as it's thin splasher with a 6 wheel tender. If you see it in the background of the last shots, it's in bits, this it it back together with most of the painting done!

 

 

 

That's all for now, it's not very exciting, everything is either malachite or black - but thanks for reading anyway!

[Jack P]

Update!

 

Successful numbering!

 

 

The 6 looks a bit wonky in the picture but I assure you it is straight, sorry for the rushed picture. (I've only done the sides you can see in the photos), luckily i've managed to get the numbers in the right order!

 

Will update again soon, Thanks for reading

[Jack P]

Update!

 

Sorry for the multitude of posts that are effectively the same thing! I have however managed to get the radial finished, and the T9 numbered without mild dyslexia getting in the way!

 

 

Lined up with with my other 2 T9's.

 

 

 

More exciting things to come, maybe even a different shade of green?    thanks for reading guys!

[Jack P]

Update!

 

Thanks again to chris who advised me of the correct number for what is now the final malachite M7, any future ones - hoping to procure a long framed version, will be black. I think that probably concludes most of the renumbering for now, sadly this basic repainting and renumbering is the majority of my modelling at the moment. But i'm enjoying it anyways!

 

Thanks for reading guys, will update again soon hopefully!

Edited February 5, 2019 by Jack P

[sb67]

Great stuff, the locos look great, will you be weathering them?

Steve.

[Jack P]

Thanks Steve, glad you like them!

 

Definitely plan to weather everything, waiting for my airbrush to turn up in the post and then get my eye in with it and then i'll go for it!

[Jack P]

Update!

 

Another spot of renumbering has left me with 741 'Joyous Gard' - waiting for etched plates and she's done! crew and all

 

 

Also spent some time on this, to prove i can do more than paint and renumber:

 

 

What an excellent taste of kitbuilding in 4mm, will order more cambrian kits quite soon, as they do an excellent range of prototypes! In the same vein of kitbuilding I was prompted to break out this -

 

 

With my airbrush arrival imminent, it means I can finally get this 7mm kit (that i've had sitting unfinished for the past 2 years) painted up and finished!

 

That's all for now, thanks for reading!

[Jack P]

Update!

 

Took a trip up to my local model shop - which is also on the steam preservation line, there are a bunch of restored coaches and water tenders about too!

 

 

 

 

I also found this inside the shop, I think it was 5" gauge and coal fired, It was fairly hefty, and so was the pricetag, $4000nzd (2200gbp approx). Slightly cheaper was this BR maunsell coach, which I ended up getting for about half of what was on the box - It was too good to pass up and I didn't even really think about it, i just snapped it up.

 

 

The only issue was the window on the other side looks like it's smashed. Oh well, I thought this was no big deal, then I realised that it's actually a 7 compartment coach and not an 8, there's piping on the roof, etc.. This was all starting to look a bit pear shaped. Of course, being me, this was after i'd done this -

 

 

 

This is where I come to you, my audience to tell me what this coach needs to be backdated to SR, both pipes on the roof need to go? I've also left it un-numbered for now as i'm not sure what fits best. Please let me know if you have any suggestions!

 

That's all for now though - off to the club tomorrow so will hopefully get some good photos there!

Edited February 20, 2019 by Jack P

[71000]

Update!

 

Took a trip up to my local model shop - which is also on the steam preservation line, there are a bunch of restored coaches and water tenders about too!

 

 

 

I also found this inside the shop, I think it was 5" gauge and coal fired, It was fairly hefty, and so was the pricetag, $4000nzd (2200gbp approx). Slightly cheaper was this BR maunsell coach, which I ended up getting for about half of what was on the box - It was too good to pass up and I didn't even really think about it, i just snapped it up.

 

 

The only issue was the window on the other side looks like it's smashed. Oh well, I thought this was no big deal, then I realised that it's actually a 7 compartment coach and not an 8, there's piping on the roof, etc.. This was all starting to look a bit pear shaped. Of course, being me, this was after i'd done this -

 

 

 

This is where I come to you, my audience to tell me what this coach needs to be backdated to SR, both pipes on the roof need to go? I've also left it un-numbered for now as i'm not sure what fits best. Please let me know if you have any suggestions!

 

That's all for now though - off to the club tomorrow so will hopefully get some good photos there!

Jack,

The coach in the photo is a Maunsell (CK) Composite Corridor, i.e 4 x 1st class compartments and 3 x 3rd class compartments. It is already in "Southern Railway" livery suitable for the period June1938-49, being unlined, and in the supposed Malachite green instigated by Bulleid. However it is missing its running number. 

 

Not sure how much you know about Maunsell mainline corridor stock but basically it went as follows. The traditional design for such stock including the model above, was that it was an improved design of what Maunsell had introduced onto the South Eastern & Chatham Railway (SECR) just prior to the "grouping" of 1923. Maunsell then became the CME for the new Southern Railway responsible for locomotives and carriages.

 

The new designs were all similar but built to three seperate widths. The narrowest "Restriction 0" being 8ft 0.25inches wide, and virtually slab sided. Such vehicles built in small numbers for the problematic Tonbridge to Hastings line with its narrow tunnels, and I'm not aware of any in model form. Next was "Restriction 1" this stock being 8ft 6in wide, and again built in smallish numbers for restricted routes in North Kent, and the problematic tunnel at Lewes in Sussex which was sharply curved. Again I'm not aware of any commercial models of such stock . The main fleet was "Restriction 4" and 9ft wide. Including the model in your photos.

 

Hornby have made a pretty wide range of these Maunsell (Restriction 4) mainline coaches with the exception of catering vehicles. The first batch of designs were introduced and built 1926-29. These are referred too as "Low Window" stock as they had corridor windows the same height as the compartment windows. Hornby have made a number of these. From 1929-34 the corridor windows of these various types were extended upwards almost to the gutter, and referred too as the "High Window" stock. The model above is included in this group. In 1935 a visual change to the windows of new stock being built, resulted in what were known as the "Flush Window" types. These vehicles had windows inserted from inside the vehicle, with no wooden frame, and also had rounded window corners. So far Hornby have only produced one such model which is the Driving Brake Composite in Hornby's 2-car Pull-Push set. These vehicles having been converted in 1959 by BR for use in Push Pull branch trains. Before conversion they were originally Brake Composite Corridors (BCK).

 

So the CK model above, is a type built to Diagram 2301(because it has TWO vents above the toilet window), Restriction 4 (9ft wide). Built at Eastleigh between December 1929, and April 1932. These vehicles were numbered as follows: 5171 and 5172. 5634 to 5691.

 

Next up is the problem of Southern Railway set formations. The Southern it must be noted had a policy of operating its coaching stock as if they were Electric Multiple Units, in fixed formation "SETS". The end vehicles of each set having large painted numbers to distinguish which set it was. A small number of vehicles were kept as "Loose" coaches to be added to trains in times of overcrowding. So an express train of the pre-war era from say Waterloo to North Devon could be made up to as many as 15 coaches. Such a train would be formed of a number of "SETS", with at least one catering vehicle inserted between two of the "SETS". Also possibly an additional "Loose" vehicle if overcrowding was expected, and this would also normally be marshalled between two of the "SETS". "Loose" coaches were also occasionally added to trains en route if overcrowding was being experienced at locations that held "Loose" coaches such as Basingstoke or Salisbury or Exeter. These places had carriage sidings and shunting locos on hand.   

 

Below are shown various sets of all "High Window" types available from Hornby, and including the CK's shown. These sets operated as such between 1930-1948 after which alterations began to occur. Also I have chosen sets which worked on the South Western pre-1948. 

4-car sets formed BTK-CK-CK-BTK

Set 190 CK5620 CK5621

Set 191 CK5622 CK5623

Set 192 CK5624 CK5625

Set 193 CK5640 CK5641

Set 194 CK5642 CK5643

Set 195 CK5644 CK5645  

 

3-car sets formed BTK-CK-BTK

Set 201 CK5635

Set 202 CK5638

Set 203 CK5653

 

Set 221 CK5664

Set 222 CK5665

Set 223 CK5666

Set 224 CK5667

   

I note you are contemplating modelling Guildford shed. It must be noted that electrification at Guildford in 1938 of the Portsmouth LIne, meant that much of Guildford sheds steam work from that time was cut back. From that time it continued to provide smaller passenger types for working the cross-country Redhill-Reading line. A fair amount of freight as there were no electric locomotives until Bullieds three electric locos of 1942-45. Guildford also serviced larger steam types such as King Arthur's for services starting and terminating at Woking about 5 miles away. Woking being on the mainline from London to Weymouth and the West of England route ! 

Edited November 28, 2017 by 71000

[Jack P]

Hey Duke,

 

Thank you so much for that information! However I must point out, when I bought it it was in BR livery, I painted the drop-lights and added the SR numbering. I was at first confused about the 7 compartment as opposed to 8 because I was comparing it to an 8 compartment 3rd, thanks to you it should have a number fairly soon! I just need to decide what set to make it a part of. The information about coaches is extremely helpful, I'm still trying to figure out is coach 1267 (part of set 328) is a 1st or a third, are you able to shed any light?

 

You will most likely prove to be a valuable resource when it comes time to actually build a layout. It's going to be a representation of Guildford I think as opposed to an accurate replica. 

 

So King Arthur's made it on shed? Sadly I've not been able to find a photo of that. another benefit of being a representation is that everything can be Faux accurate and I can run whatever takes my fancy! 

[Graham_Muz]

Hello Jack

 

Your engine does have the correct frames (fitted by the SR in 1930) which were common to 3125 and 3520.  3488 was the odd one out because it retained its original frames.  However in 1947 3520 had a Drummond boiler so you'd be better re-numbering it as 3125 which did have an Adams boiler from 1945 to 1954.

 

The M7s which were painted malachite green by the SR were:-

242  Dec 1946

243  Aug 1947

676  Dec 1947

 

but, according to Peter Swift ('The Book of the M7 0-4-4Ts' / Irwell Press)  242 & 243 were not lined, unlike 676 and the BR repaints.

 

Love the quality of your modelling by the way!

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

My version of the unlined 243 is below

 

 

[Northroader]

There's a model of the station in SR days in Guildford museum. Done as a fairly accurate representative job in OO, it does take up a lot of space. I've put a link in, you'll find three views, including the roundhouse.https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g186390-d4419144-Reviews-Museum-Guildford_Surrey_England.html

[chris45lsw]

Hey Duke,

 

Thank you so much for that information! However I must point out, when I bought it it was in BR livery, I painted the drop-lights and added the SR numbering. I was at first confused about the 7 compartment as opposed to 8 because I was comparing it to an 8 compartment 3rd, thanks to you it should have a number fairly soon! I just need to decide what set to make it a part of. The information about coaches is extremely helpful, I'm still trying to figure out is coach 1267 (part of set 328) is a 1st or a third, are you able to shed any light?

 

You will most likely prove to be a valuable resource when it comes time to actually build a layout. It's going to be a representation of Guildford I think as opposed to an accurate replica. 

 

So King Arthur's made it on shed? Sadly I've not been able to find a photo of that. another benefit of being a representation is that everything can be Faux accurate and I can run whatever takes my fancy! 

Hello Jack

 

1267 would be a third.  On the SR, ultimately (after various changes), Thirds were numbered in the range 1-2500; Brake thirds 2501-4390; seconds and Brake Seconds 4391-4500; Composites 4501-6400; Brake composites 6401-7000; Firsts 7001-7700; Brake firsts 7701-7780; Saloons (including catering vehicles) 7781-8000.

 

I don't think you needed to paint your droplight frames brown - Maunsell coaches repainted malachite green would have had green frames.  Hornby are wrong in painting their post war liveried Maunsells with brown frames.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

[Tony Teague]

Hi Jack

Just to add to the confusion, I'm not sure that your coach is in "Southern Railway malachite"; it looks more like BR(S) coach green which I believe to be a slightly darker shade; whether or not this is material / noticeable is of course a matter of opinion, and if it were weathered....

I am enjoying following your thread!

 

Tony

[71000]

Hey Duke,

 

Thank you so much for that information! However I must point out, when I bought it it was in BR livery, I painted the drop-lights and added the SR numbering. I was at first confused about the 7 compartment as opposed to 8 because I was comparing it to an 8 compartment 3rd, thanks to you it should have a number fairly soon! I just need to decide what set to make it a part of. The information about coaches is extremely helpful, I'm still trying to figure out is coach 1267 (part of set 328) is a 1st or a third, are you able to shed any light?

 

You will most likely prove to be a valuable resource when it comes time to actually build a layout. It's going to be a representation of Guildford I think as opposed to an accurate replica. 

 

So King Arthur's made it on shed? Sadly I've not been able to find a photo of that. another benefit of being a representation is that everything can be Faux accurate and I can run whatever takes my fancy! 

Jack.

 

Coaches: 8 compartment 3rd class coaches were very common amongst all the pre-war companies. Coach lengths generally being around 57-60ft long. Only the Great Western tended to also build coaches up to 70ft, and these long ones were normally confined to ex Broad Gauge routes. 7 compartment CK's where four compartments were 1st class, was also a typical format (but not exclusive) amongst all the pre-war companies, so that any vehicle on an inter-railway service, didn't cause confusion for the seat reservation system !  

 

Head Office Order (HOO) number E760 for 90 Corridor Thirds for General use. Running Numbers 1231-80 and 1801-40 to Diagram 2002 (two toilet vents); Includes Coach SK 1267 "High Window" built April-May 1934 and allocated to the "Loose" pool. I can't find it in any set at any time right through until the time it was scrapped around end of summer 1961.

 

SET 328 5 coach set Consisted of:

BTK 3797

TK 1215

FK 7406

TK 1216

BTK 3798

Marshalled in the order shown.

 

The following may be helpful concerning Southern coach numbers: 

Coach numbers:

1 - 4383 Third class coaches, all types

4391-4397 Second class Boat open saloons (Restriction 1).

4431-4450 Brake General Saloon Unclassed (Boat train and special uses).

4481-4482 Brake Second Corridor (Boat trains)

4483-4486 Low window 8 compartment Corridor 3rd (the only 3rd class coaches not quite in sequence)

4608-4764 Ex LSWR 1st/3rd Composites

4916-4960 Post Office Sorting and Stowage vehicles

5040-6941 Composite coaches. All types

6986          Brake Composite Lounge Observation Saloon (Isle of Wight stock)

6987          Ex Minor Companies rebuilt Brake Composite (Isle of Wight stock)

7133-7756 First Class coaches. All types.

7781-7800 Maunsell High Window General Saloon Unclassed (Restriction 1)

7833-7840 Bulleid Restaurant Composite Open (All paired with a Bulleid RKB Tavern car)

7841-7844 Maunsell Restaurant Composite Open

7846-7847 Maunsell Restaurant First.

7850-7857 Ironclad Restaurant Buffet Third

7858-7878 Maunsell Restaurant Kitchen buffets/Kitchen Buffets/Buffets (all BR rebuilds of previous Maunsell Kitchen Restaurants)

7879          Ex LNER Gresley Sleeper rebuilt 1958 as Restaurant Kitchen Buffet and allocated Southern number

7880          Maunsell Restaurant Kitchen First (not rebuilt by BR !)

7881-7891 Bulleid Restaurant Kitchen Third (allocated in numerical order to Bournemouth 6-sets 290-300)

7892-7899 Bulleid Kitchen Buffet Third (The infamous Tavern cars, and paired with 7833-7840) 

7901-7911 Maunsell High Window General Saloon Unclassed (Boat trains and special useage)

7919          Invalid Saloon

7920-7923 Ambulance Car 24 beds Unclassed

7931-7933 Maunsell High Window Restaurant Kitchen First

7934          Maunsell Buffet Third (BR 1953 rebuild from RKF) 

7939-7958 Maunsell Kitchen Buffet Thirds, Cafeteria cars, and Buffet Thirds and original RKF's

7959-7969 Maunsell High Window General Saloon Unclassed (Boat trains and special useage)

7974-7993 Maunsell Low Window General saloon Unclassed (Boat trains and special useage, and Restriction 1)

7994          Maunsell High Window General Saloon Unclassed (Boat trains and special useage)

7995-8000 Maunsell High Window Restaurant Kitchen First

9117-9213 Ex LNER catering vehicles of differing types allocated to Southern variously between 1954-1973

There were also roughly 180 Locomotive hauled Pullman cars available for use on the Southern between 1935-40 and 1946-51 and nominally based at Stewarts Lane Pullman Company Carriage sheds.  

 

As your planning Guildford shed. I thought I would add a few photos of the station, shed, and various loco types found there. 22 pictures below. There is a "King Arthur" included !!!!

 

 

Above M7 30047 @ Guildford February 1958. 

 

 

Above: M7 30129 @ Guildford July 1956.

 

 

Above: M7 30249 on Guildford shed 31-5-61

 

 

Above: Black Motor 700 class 30326 in Guildford station shunting October 1959.

 

 

Above: H15 4-6-0 30331 in the shed yard @ Guildford February 1960

 

 

Above: T9 4-4-0 30337 in Guildford station February 1958.

 

 

Above: G6 0-6-0T 30349 (probably the shed shunter) @ Guildford July 1956

 

 

Above: S15 4-6-0 30507 on shed @ Guildford (with a 2BIL EMU behind) 18-7-61

 

 

Above: Q1 0-6-0 30532 on shed @ Guildford (with 2HAL EMU's behind) 16-6-62

 

 

Above: 0395 Class 0-6-0 30574 on shed @ Guildford (again EMU's in the carriage sidings) July 1956.

 

 

Above: 0415 4-4-2T 30582 on an enthusiasts special @ Guildford 19-3-61 

 

 

Above: 30796 N15 "Sir Dodinas le Savage" ON SHED @ Guildford 16.6.61

 

 

Above: 30915 V 4-4-0 "Brighton" leaving Guilldford for Reading on 2-7-61. Note headlamps as it is obviously evening time.

 

 

Above: 31408 N 2-6-0 on Guildford turntable 1961

 

 

Above: 31510 C Class and 30639 Black Motor on shed Guildford 29-5-61

 

 

Above: 31518 H class 0-4-4T in the long vanished Down Bay @ Guildford April 1958.

 

 

Above: 31549 D class 4-4-0 on a Redhill to Reading service @ Guildford July 1956

 

 

Above: 31616 U 2-6-0 on another Redhill to Reading train @ Guildford 31-5-61

 

 

Above: 31753 L1 4-4-0 with a Reading to Redhill service @ Guildford February 1960

 

 

Above: 32479 E4 0-6-2T on shed having probably worked in from Horsham with a local 1961.

 

 

Above: 33006 Q1 0-6-0 on shed @ Guildford.

 

 

Above: 34006 WC "Bude" in Guildford station. Probably come tender first from Woking to turn. Tail lamp on.    

[Jack P]

Thanks everyone for your comments and graham that looks excellent, 243 was one of the ones with the dogs on the smokebox?

 

There's a model of the station in SR days in Guildford museum. Done as a fairly accurate representative job in OO, it does take up a lot of space. I've put a link in, you'll find three views, including the roundhouse.https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g186390-d4419144-Reviews-Museum-Guildford_Surrey_England.html

 

Thank you very much, excellent photos there! gives me a good overview of the lay of the land.

 

Hello Jack

 

1267 would be a third.  On the SR, ultimately (after various changes), Thirds were numbered in the range 1-2500; Brake thirds 2501-4390; seconds and Brake Seconds 4391-4500; Composites 4501-6400; Brake composites 6401-7000; Firsts 7001-7700; Brake firsts 7701-7780; Saloons (including catering vehicles) 7781-8000.

 

I don't think you needed to paint your droplight frames brown - Maunsell coaches repainted malachite green would have had green frames.  Hornby are wrong in painting their post war liveried Maunsells with brown frames.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

 

Hey Chris, Thanks for that, it's extremely helpful when trying to piece together sets! thanks for telling me now! they were pesky to do! I guess I was just trying to make them all the same, but it's very strange that Hornby has modeled them incorrectly. 

 

Hi Jack

Just to add to the confusion, I'm not sure that your coach is in "Southern Railway malachite"; it looks more like BR(S) coach green which I believe to be a slightly darker shade; whether or not this is material / noticeable is of course a matter of opinion, and if it were weathered....

I am enjoying following your thread!

 

Tony

 

Hey tony!

 

This was covered in another thread I believe, the malachite green applied to the Hornby SR liveried coaches and the Br ones are actually exactly the same, which is a huge variation from the malachite applied to locos or indeed the railroad range, It was discussed that the Southern varnished their coaches quite a lot so it may come down to the darker colour being because of that. It seems like a bit of a grey area to me, even though I'm not 100% happy with the colour as it comes from Hornby I doubt that i'll be repainting them, weathering definitely though!

  Thank you tony, I'm glad you're enjoying things!

 

update again soon!

[Northroader]

71000, that's a marvellous selection of SR loco pics, and all at one place, don't you just wish there was a magic carpet to go and see it again? I fancy the G6 060T featured would be on goods yard duties there and Woking. You can just see the most likely shed pilot lurking in the third photo, first of the roundhouse jobs. There's a B4 040T half in the nearest building behind the water column. (30086/9?) one of these wasthere because of having to move everything on to the turntable, and they lasted long on this need in BR days.

[71000]

71000, that's a marvellous selection of SR loco pics, and all at one place, don't you just wish there was a magic carpet to go and see it again? I fancy the G6 060T featured would be on goods yard duties there and Woking. You can just see the most likely shed pilot lurking in the third photo, first of the roundhouse jobs. There's a B4 040T half in the nearest building behind the water column. (30086/9?) one of these wasthere because of having to move everything on to the turntable, and they lasted long on this need in BR days.

"Northroader"

Well it should help Jack, as he's a long way from Guildford and I suspect a bit too young to remember such scenes! And I have a soft heart for New Zealand because I was extended an extremely warm welcome by their then New Zealand Government Railway Chairman in 1986-7. Who went out of his way to provide me with railway journalistic opportunities. 

 

As too the photos, I have literally thousands of photos of Southern steam, collected over quite a few years, from Lens of Sutton, model railway shows, and even the internet. Good model shops always had box loads of photos, mainly of engines, to help modellers kit building such things. I just had some foresight to grab some of them for future reference !   

 

You're correct in assuming the G6 was for shunting the yards, (it only has a threelink coupling not a screwlink) just as well as acting as shed pilot. The B4 you note was the usual shed pilot (but it had off days) until replaced by a USA tank, which was tarted up in a slightly oddball lined green. Indeed at the "Woking 150" railway festival back around 1988, they had a USA tank chuffing back and forth. When I climbed on the footplate I found my future Traction Inspector an ex steam driver I knew, saying "God how it comes back to you (driving steam) after all these years". That was just before I transferred to Guildford as a driver.

Edited November 28, 2017 by 71000

[Jack P]

Duke,

 

I missed that huge wealth of information and pictures when I posted my first reply, please don't think I was ignoring you! WOW, those are some excellent shots, I've decided to model something like Guildford as to leave myself some creative room. It seems like the most common services were the Reading to Redhill ones. All of the information about coaches are excellent - I've just placed an order for southern coaches in colour by Michael Welch, hopefully that will give me some further insight!

 

Thanks to everyone's help I've managed to decide on a number for my CK - 5653 from Set 203:

 

 

I've also got a number on the malachite (ish) PMV. 

 

 

A decision has also been made to start using screw couplings and 3-link couplings on all of my stock as you can see here on both parcel vans - only the coaches which will have kadee's fitted, and run in sets. I still have NO idea when i'll start the layout or how it's going to be built. More and more I want to make it roundy roundy - with the station building and carriage sidings included. We shall have to see how much room i'm able to secure when we have our own house.

 

 

This arrived today! Which means that when I get some time this weekend I will try and get my eye in and give some weathering a go! That's all for now, still biding my time, researching, and buying more books than I think I ever have!

 

As usual, thanks for reading guys!

[Jack P]

Update!

 

Bachmann C class 

 

 

While this is a nice model of an excellent and long lived prototype, I find that the model leaves a little bit to be desired. Some of the main issues for me are the brake details, especially on the tender where they are molded to the frames and not in-line with the wheels, the lack of any representation of inside valve gear, and the huge seam running down the boiler, there are a few other small things which with a small bit of effort could be better represented (I think) - also to my eye the numbers and lettering are an odd colour so will be replaced with some hmrs transfers.

 

 

I've made a start at removing the molded brake detail, and will be replacing it with the brassmaster detail kit

 

 

Thankfully the body comes apart easily enough, so will make a start on a few other things. That's all for now, hopefully more updates soon!

[Jack P]

Update!

 

Nothing hugely exciting, finished repainting and renumbering The C class and a USA dock tank.

 

 

The C class had the cab repainted cream and the boiler backhead painted black. Still waiting on the detailing kit to arrive for the brake-rigging, and some crew/coal and it'll be done.

 

 

Chose a number at random, from a picture of one of the class with this number at Guildford in BR days

 

 

And the USA dock tank, again, number taken from a photo of one of the class at Guildford during BR days

 

 

 

I'm still not sure if it should be a screw link or a 3 link coupling on the front - any advice would be excellent!

 

thanks for reading guys!

Edited June 20, 2017 by Jack P

[71000]

Jack,

Just stumbled on your last Post of 20th June !

 

Regards your USA tank I have attached a photo of 30073 (ex SR 73) The loco appears to have approached the camera from Southampton (the photographer is standing on the south end of Eastleigh station platform) and is on the Up Through  Line. As a shunt signal has been pulled of next to the loco, the loco must be going to reverse across the mainline to one of the Yards. (There being no tailamp on this end of the loco.) Picture taken Eastleigh station on 11.6.66, and revealing the loco with the usual "Screwlink" coupling.

 

 

 

Not sure if you are aware of the normal operation of these locos. They were purchased by the Southern Railway from the US Military at the end of WW2 at scrap value, even though they were only a couple of years old. The Southern bought them primarily because of their short wheelbase which was ideally suited to the nasty sharp curves in the docks. The Southern made various minor modifications to the locos over a period of a couple of years, including adding a "Fallplate" to the front bufferbeam. (The US style front bufferbeam was to narrow for walking on safely !) In the above photo the "Fallplate" which was hinged appears to be in the lowered position. In many photos of the locos it is seen in the raised position as seen in the photo below, of 30074 shunting in the Docks in August 1958. The centre disc with the number 12 on it, is the Docks duty shunt code. A system to identify which loco was on what duty within the Docks area, as Southampton Docks had miles and miles of track in this era.    

 

.

 

These locos were allocated to the Southampton Docks shed (BR shed code 71I) where most of them were usually to be found for much of their careers. Being classed as 3F they were much more powerful than the little B4 class 0-4-0T, which they were intended to replace. Being close to Eastleigh with its large Goods Yards, Locomotive and Carriage Construction  works, and its large loco shed. It was common to see one or two of the USA tanks tripping back and forth between the Docks and Eastleigh. One was also often found at Redbridge Sleeper Works to the West of Southampton. The only other place they turned up, was Basingstoke, usually to cover for a failed Diesel shunter. 3 x Diesel shunters were sent to Basingstoke on a weekly turnover basis, and although Basingstoke had its own shed, the Diesels were NOT allocated there, but sent from Eastleigh shed. The Diesel shunters (Class 08's) began appearing at Basingstoke from 1955. Soon after Basingstoke lost its steam shunting allocation. So if a Diesel failed something had to be sent to cover and this was sometimes a USA tank. In general however the USA tanks didn't really go anywhere until 1963. At that time BR introduced a special design of centre cab short wheelbase diesel shunter (Class 07), to replace the USA tanks. Some of the USA tanks were soon scrapped, while 5 or 6 were allocated to the Mechanical Engineers department. Renumbered "DSxxx" (Departmental Stock), one turned up at Guildford to again replace a B4 0-4-0T. Two USA's survived until Septemeber 1967 in Departmental stock, a couple of months after all other steam had been officially withdrawn from the BR Southern Region.  

Edited November 28, 2017 by 71000