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Southern Railway 1947 SR Post War steam 4mm Malachite Southern




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#1 Jack P

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 14:18

After a short (4 year) hiatus, from modelling in general, and also 4mm modeling, I have decided to make a return. This thread will mainly be detailing and outlining the motive power for my planned layout/representation of Guildford shed.

 

The thing that really prompted me was seeing the wealth of SR offerings from all the different manufacturers, it was an extremely reasonably priced S15 from Hattons that kicked things off again a few weeks ago.

 

First up was detailing one of the excellent Hornby Maunsell coaches. Painting the door at the end, adding a belt to the alternator (if that's what it actually is) flipping the bogie and removing the rear most coupling. I also quickly tried to make the interior a little less plastiky, you can't really see anything anyways, but I know it's there!

 

 

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To bring it back to the S15, which I have to say is an absolutely amazing creation. One thing that really stood out was the fall-plate, a small detail I know, but all the small details are what make a model - right? So I decided that the Schools class and the T9 both needed a change. 

 

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Nile, of this parish, used this technique, and I have shamelessly used it myself.

 

 

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Here it is sitting between the rear most handrails of the cab, you can also see here the tender drawbar that I made from plastikard, as the Hornby one was too far away on the 'long' gap, and too close on the 'short' gap.

 

32977466281_2f260c27cd.jpg

 

Here it is with some mesh PVA'ed on top to look like checkerplate. it can pivot up and down, and I think it's an improvement over the oddly angled glued fall plate these locos come with.

 

32722294630_8ab5b9c784.jpg

 

The T9 doesn't have the mesh on yet, but the cab is so narrow, I might try and attach the fireman to the fallplate, we shall see.

 

The final thing I've been working on, is SR route discs, i'm still unsure if these were used with reporting numbers on them during SR days, or if it was all just post nationalization. A good use of some 7mm transfers that would otherwise be in the bin.

 

33063816196_a5f8cd360a.jpg

 

That's all for now, I'm currently in the process of sketching out plans for a layout. 

 

Updates as they happen, thanks for reading guys!


Edited by Jack P, 01 April 2018 - 03:54 .

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#2 Oldddudders

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 14:31

I think alternators are a modern addition, since silicon diodes became affordable and miniaturised. Cars up to the '60s had generators, and this '30s design wouldn't be very different except in output and longevity.
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#3 Jack P

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 14:34

Perhaps the word i'm looking for is dynamo? I'm unsure.

 

The only alternator I know anything about is the one in my nissan!


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#4 Jack P

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 21:29

Update!

 

32443167613_1ec947a280_b.jpg

 

I've been working on detailing the motive power for my upcoming layout, dirty black on the flat surfaces and below the footplate. Need to make a start on weathering further. The green ones are easy, but the black ones i'm unsure of, so they look a little plain at the moment.

 

33320001325_c511d259ce_b.jpg

 

I also picked up hornbys excellent '700', which was an absolute steal from a certain online model store (ex vat is a great thing). I always had plans to update into sunshine livery, So after some useful advice, and some enamel thinners,and matte varnish, it looked like this:

 

33306641086_758ca8c63b_b.jpg

 

I seem to have knocked the rear most lamp iron off the top of the tender, I've made this same ham fisted mistake with my T9, if anyone can advise where you obtain frets of these lamp irons from - as i thought it was roxey but can't seem to find them.

 

This mornings efforts left me with this:

 

32964637370_cd8937721b_b.jpg

 

I have had to use Modelmaster Waterslide decals, but I'm not a fan, I really think pressfix is the way to go, the only issue is HMRS are sold out, and after some communication, it will be a while until they have any more. A backlog of Methfix Bulleid decals are preventing them for ordering new stock - so i may have to try methfix, or just leave the loco black for now.

 

I also had a bit of an unfortunate purchase from ebay, in the form of "Cheltenham".

 

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If memory serves, some engines had a chassis made of mazak (sp?) and this one was absolutely rooted. The front looked a bit funky too:

 

33191851972_8db2dfc836_b.jpg

 

Long story short, the chassis was crumbling to bits, and had snapped up the front where the cylinders connect to the main chassis. I did manage to salvage the body, wheels, bogie, motor, a few gubbins and the tender. Sadly what was left of the chassis was only really fit for the bin. Although I might take to it with an angle grinder and make some weights.Thankfully the seller was extremely forthcoming and a refund was agreed upon, so no complaints here.

 

32533107383_4453b2b590_b.jpg

 

A lamp iron is also missing here, but that will be fixed in due course.

 

Having a spare tender meant that I was able to finally re-create one of my favorite photos from a: Southern Railways Liveries by Brian Haresnape. Page 38 shows a schools class in malachite, with a Lematire chimney and the back of the tender painted black with no number on the rear of the tender. Once I'm able to find a new schools chassis I will be recreating this engine in hopefully running form. The only Minor discrepancy is that the loco is in pre-war malachite.

 

I think rule 1 will apply here though  :sungum:

 

That's all for now!


Edited by Jack P, 10 March 2017 - 01:16 .

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#5 Jack P

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 11:45

A brief update, I have managed to find another schools who's chassis I can nab, it will also leave me with a bunch of spares, which is great! I also referenced the photo of the wartime schools class, steps are painted and lined, but so are the smoke deflectors, which means it's sharing both pre and post wartime malachite styles, which is confusing. Either way, my model will become 938 'St Olaves', which I made a start on this morning .

 

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Not very exciting but until I can sort some pressfix or maybe succumb to methfix, I will wait. The waterslide transfers got a coat of varnish today too, and look abysmal, so I will have to sort that out. It's okay from a distance and some angles but it's not really good enough. I also quickly made up a fall-plate in the same style as the one I did for wellington. Black areas have been painted 'Dirty black' and the pipework and nameplates are still off while i figure out a way to straighten the front of the running plate.

 

I also made up some more route discs with train reporting numbers on them, Guildford had the reporting numbers allocated between 180-230, a few of the others are Nine Elms and Feltham.

 

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Finally, my favourite 'Never-Was' of all time.

 

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Hopefully I'll have more exciting things to report soon.

 

That's all for now!


Edited by Jack P, 11 March 2017 - 20:13 .

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#6 Jack P

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 10:20

Update:

 

Still nothing exciting to report. Removed the modelmaster transfers from the 700 and painted the interior of the tender a sort of rusty colour (trying to go off photos as best I could), Crew fitted, and like the rest of the engines is just waiting for coal!

 

33257258502_bb40830dca_c.jpg

 

Made some more progress on 938 'St Olaves', as this used to be 'Cheltenham', it had the speedo cable on the rear left driving wheel, I cut this down and left the small portion that slots into the groove on the stub there so it didn't mess with the motion too much.

 

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I also managed to get everything back together relatively straight, with a little bit of help from my heat gun, which is a massive improvement over how it arrived, I chucked the body on the chassis from 'Wellington' to make sure it all lined up. (Feels like the first real modelling i've done!)

 

Before:

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After:

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You can see here it's not quite perfect, but it's certainly better, and you really wouldn't notice unless you looked

 

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She's just awaiting the donor chassis, with the wheels swapped in, chimney and transfers she'll be done! Order placed for some etched plates today too, this means that hopefully from now on any more schools that arrive should just be a simple re-name/number. 

 

In one of my first posts I made a closer coupled draw bar out of plastikard, the only issue was that the screw holding it in to the loco chassis was really tight, and would inevitably cause issues later on, so I just set about bending up the metal draw bar that it comes with - I don't claim to be the first purveyor of this idea, but it certainly works, well!

 

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My next task is to tackle the connection between the loco and tender on my King Arthur 'Pendragon'

 

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Which is slightly more tricky, I should be able to figure it out, but if anyone has any suggestions let me know! Still not very exciting, so I do apologize to all those reading.

 

That's all for now!


Edited by Jack P, 13 March 2017 - 11:09 .

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#7 Jack P

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 05:27

Update:

 

Realized the bogie on the King Arthur was missing it's guard irons, so I made some rudimentary ones from some scrap brass

 

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I also spent some time assembling the first of many buffers, it's an excellent kit!

 

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All it needs is the red lines and some weathering, and it'll be done. The only thing i'm slightly concerned about is that I haven't insulated it properly, not sure if a few coats of varnish on the exposed rails will sort it, or I may have to remove the wire support at the back and go again.

 

There were both types of SR buffer at Guildford, so i'll order a few more when I get around to final numbers.

 

That's all for now!


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#8 Dunsignalling

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 06:42

Nice work. Just a couple of technical points:

 

The generator under coaches of that era would have been a dynamo, producing DC current; alternators are a much more recent development.

 

The numbers on the headcode discs were duty or roster numbers allocated by the running shed. Because each duty (usually) involved working more than one train, they would have not been useful for reporting purposes. Some duties worked from Guilford, for instance, involved working two or three different goods trains interspersed with spells of shunting at more than one location. Perusal of photographs will also reveal that many trains carried discs with no duty numbers applied,  

 

The usual interior finish for the luggage section of brake coaches was a sort of buff/stone colour.

 

Hope this helps

 

John


Edited by Dunsignalling, 15 March 2017 - 06:50 .

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#9 Jack P

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 07:18

Hey John, thanks for taking a look!

 

The word I was looking for was definitlety dynamo, the name escaped me at the time!

 

As for the train Duty numbers, I have plenty of blank white headcode disc's, it was just to add a little interest! Plus using what was left of my 7mm transfers, Graham Muz sent me the list of duty turns as a pdf document which has been extremely useful. Thank you though, means there can be locos on shed with duty numbers on the headcode discs. 

 

As for the interior, I was going off the picture of the coach 6686 on the bluebell - http://www.semgonlin...h/maunco05.html click the link and scroll to the bottom to see what i'm talking about, I had always thought the interior was stone coloured too,  :senile:  show's how much I know knew don't know!

 

cheers



#10 RFS

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 09:43

 

As for the train Duty numbers, I have plenty of blank white headcode disc's, it was just to add a little interest! Plus using what was left of my 7mm transfers, Graham Muz sent me the list of duty turns as a pdf document which has been extremely useful. Thank you though, means there can be locos on shed with duty numbers on the headcode discs. 

 

 

 

As already mentioned it's my understanding that numbers on the discs were engine duty numbers and hence could apply to multiple trains.  If a reporting number was required (eg on busy summer Saturdays when extra trains were being run) then a separate duty number was carried on a board.  Here's one such example

 

https://mikemorant.s...ics/i-vxcsmqq/A


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#11 Jack P

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 09:52

Ah yes, thanks for that! I don't claim it to be 100% accurate, but the more I learn, the better! 

 

Were the boards around pre '48, if you know?



#12 Dunsignalling

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:55

Hey John, thanks for taking a look!

 

The word I was looking for was definitlety dynamo, the name escaped me at the time!

 

As for the train Duty numbers, I have plenty of blank white headcode disc's, it was just to add a little interest! Plus using what was left of my 7mm transfers, Graham Muz sent me the list of duty turns as a pdf document which has been extremely useful. Thank you though, means there can be locos on shed with duty numbers on the headcode discs. 

 

As for the interior, I was going off the picture of the coach 6686 on the bluebell - http://www.semgonlin...h/maunco05.html click the link and scroll to the bottom to see what i'm talking about, I had always thought the interior was stone coloured too,  :senile:  show's how much I know knew don't know!

 

cheers

Yikes! That's a bit lairy isn't it. Maybe that was the SR colour, but I certainly remember buff/stone van interiors in BR days (late 50s/early 60s).

 

John


Edited by Dunsignalling, 15 March 2017 - 12:29 .


#13 RFS

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 12:27

Ah yes, thanks for that! I don't claim it to be 100% accurate, but the more I learn, the better! 

 

Were the boards around pre '48, if you know?

 

Yes - pre 1948 as this picture shows - https://mikemorant.s...ves/i-Crv24Zt/A



#14 Jack P

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 19:21

John - bit of an odd colour, not sure who's choice it was, and it certainly seemed odd to me, but I shall run with it for now, the benefit its, no-one's going to see it anyway!

 

Thanks RFS, that link is excellent, I shall peruse through those photos! 



#15 Nile

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 21:58

Nice modelling jack. You should give Methfix transfers a try, they work well on a matt surface with no carrier film to silver. Keep an eye on the individual letters, they can move about and end up wonky.


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#16 Jack P

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 23:07

Thanks Nile, your bench is pretty inspirational, have just finished my 700's fall-plate in the same way as yours!

 

With Methfix is it the same as pressfix where you push them on to the model and dab with liquid, or is it in the same vein as water-slide but using spirits instead? I'm thinking it's probably the way to go, the modelmaster decals are nicely printed, but it's the transfer film that really lets it down, on the sheet it says you can remove the film with some low tack tape on a corner and peel away gently, but i would always peel the whole thing away or maybe just the edge of a letter which was extremely frustrating. 



#17 Jack P

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 06:22

Update!

 

Courtesy of the work computers I printed off some reference photos of Guildford 70c, lots to go through, but I've found some great pictures facing towards the tunnel from the station platform under the Farnham road bridge.

 

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But I digress, This turned up today!

 

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I had previously had set up in the garage, because it would mean no worries about mess, air compressor, paint smell etc, etc. But the garage leaks!

 

Which I only found out about when I came home and all the engines were sitting in a puddle, fearing the worst, I just assumed that they were all a write-off. However moving everything inside and blow drying everything obviously did something because they all work! It is also a much nicer, warmer, dryer area to work in, I'm now just on the hunt for a bigger desk. All the engines have been tested on 3 small bits of Hornby track, going back and forth, while I wait for my DCC Concepts rolling road to turn up, this will eventually become my dedicated test track/rolling road.  

 

Its a little crude but it works!

 

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I also shortened the loco/tender coupling on the N15, I will admit, I cut the wires to the existing coupler and used the spare schools one. when I obtain a soldering iron I will re-attach this small piece connector piece so that I can still use the tender pickups.

 

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Leaving me with a far better looking connection, and means I can still use the Hornby fallplate

 

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Finally I caught this shot of the S15 in the sun the other morning, If only it had a more scenic backdrop

 

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That's all for now!


Edited by Jack P, 17 March 2017 - 06:33 .

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#18 sb67

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 06:34

Just had a read through this thread and some great work on here. I really like the fall plate, how did you do that? Looking forward to seeing the layout :no: 

Steve.



#19 Jack P

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 07:08

Hey, thanks Steve!

 

The fallplate is actually deceptively simple, now I do apologize because the next photo shows the rather ugly underside, previously i've used tamiya thin cement but I have found it to not bond all that well, the new stuff i'm using is just some $1 super glue from bunnings but it does the job.

 

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It's just a piece of thin plastikard with some ribbing support and a bit of wire at the back, real simple, a little crude, but it works well enough for me!

 

As for the layout it'll be some time, currently looks like i'll need about 5 x 1.5, maybe longer if I want to include the full roundhouse..  :o


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#20 sb67

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 20:46

Thanks Jack. How's it fixed in place or does it just sit over the gap?

#21 Jack P

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 19:50

Hey Steve,

 

Hopefully the pictures will explain, it just sits between the handrails. 

 

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This means it can hinge up and down and the model can be handled, turned upside down etc without the fall-plate coming out. The end result is something like this:

 

32663563304_34c7bde083_b.jpg

 

I think I'll end up replacing the one in 'Wellington', they are pretty simple to make the idea is just to make sure there is enough room at the back for it to pivot.

 

Hope this helps to some effect!


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#22 Jack P

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 21:16

Update! (please excuse the terrible pictures)

 

She lives! The welcome arrival of the damaged donor schools class, who's chassis I nabbed for what will be 'St Olaves'. I didn't grab any photos of the process, but it was a relatively simple exercise in swapping out the wheels.

 

The DCC Concepts Rolling Road also arrived the other day, and I can see why it's so popular, Makes me wish i'd got the 12 set!

 

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This left me with a fair amount of spares, which will, i'm sure come in handy.

 

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This means I'm still just waiting on transfers, name plates, and the chimney, then she'll be done! I decided to go ahead and order some Methfix transfers, this means i'll be able to finish off the 700, and also the spare schools tender, which I repainted into wartime black. I also had a go at changing the tender toolboxes over to the other type as they were quite badly damaged. Will also need to fab up another tender door as this has also gone walkabout

 

33509806771_74967b5592_c.jpg

 

I'm still not 100% what the plan for this is. An N class also arrived at the same time, so I made a start at converting from the early crest BR to wartime black, very simple as Bachmann transfers are extremely easy to remove!

 

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I'm not sure about the coal.

 

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I have a spare slope sided tender top but it looks like it may take some modification to fit, I may end up going with that and use the flat sided one as a test, cut the coal out and build the tender interior. We shall see!

 

We have also just received news from the landlord that they are putting the property on the market, this means we have 45 days to find somewhere, so i'm not sure how frequent updates may become as modelling isn't the sort of thing you can really do in the midst of packing/moving. Fingers crossed that its a simple process, though I doubt it.

 

That's all for now!


Edited by Jack P, 25 March 2017 - 23:30 .

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#23 Jack P

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 12:59

Update!

 

The donor schools class received a lick of paint. Still need to repair lots of the missing/damaged parts, fabricated cab doors, handrails and some piping still to do. have also moved the drivers seat into the up position. 

 

I've decided this will be 908 'Westminster' in wartime black, as this was one of the low window engines that wasn't repainted into malachite. However it will be in overhaul mode, I have ordered a Dapol schools class kit and will try and butcher the chassis enough to fit, not sure if I want to model the loco suspended on a hoist or on its wheels - we shall see!

 

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That's all for now, thanks for tuning in!


Edited by Jack P, 27 March 2017 - 13:01 .

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#24 Jack P

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 21:07

Update!

 

The N class received some attention, I decided to pull the front steps off the donor schools class and file the tops down to fit the N I'm sure these aren't exactly right, but I think close enough will do. Possibly will need to remove the small lump that is suppose to represent the draincocks on the schools.I have of course noticed this, now that the steps are in situ..  :banghead:

 

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Added some fire irons to the tender, i'm still not sure about the coal, or the irons to be completely honest, but until I cut it apart, it will also do just fine.

 

33685273476_057bbd0178_c.jpg]

 

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So until transfers arrive, here she sits

 

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That's all for now!


Edited by Jack P, 29 March 2017 - 23:29 .

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#25 Jack P

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 06:18

Update!

 

Snagged a real bargain from ebay, i'd been looking for one of these for a while, so i was determine not to let this one go, however, I missed this little red label in the top corner of the box,

 

33747549265_c09e282565_c.jpg

 

So for £70 I picked up this!

 

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This was post me giving it the usual treatment of dirty black to all of the black areas, but let me tell you, this thing had never been opened or run, the absolute definition of brand new. Stoked! I don't currently have a DCC controller, and i'm not sure if ti's okay to run DCC on a DC s\rolling road. DCC is the goal eventually, but not the most important thing at the moment.

 

I also had some kits turn up, gaugemaster signalbox will be hacked up a little, but that's for a later date.

 

33591185432_a1a8208d5b_c.jpg

 

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The turntable had a LOT of flash around the parts, and the deck itself was warped, so i'm in the process of straightening it out

 

33591184002_fba986c100_c.jpg

 

Not sure where my transfers are, hopefully any day. That's all for now though, thanks for reading!


Edited by Jack P, 31 March 2017 - 06:58 .

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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Southern Railway, 1947, SR, Post War, steam, 4mm, Malachite, Southern