Deliberately Old-Fashioned 0 Scale - Chapter 1

[Nearholmer]

Mr Kirk,

 

Funnily enough, I’ve just been reading a correspondent in Model Railway Constructor in September 1935 making the very same point, and it’s a good one.

 

By 1935, the argument around 00/H0 had been raging for a good ten years, provoked by the Bing Table Railway, and subsequent use of the mechanisms from that to power ‘scale’ models.

 

A Bing Table Railway loco is stuffed full-to-bursting with mechanism, in both the clockwork and electric versions, and even so represented a miracle of miniturisation at the time, and, of course, Greenly, who had a big hand in the design of it, chose 16mm and nominal 4mm/foot. And, because it used pretty crude tinplate track, which necessitated wide wheels, the ‘front-to-front’ was huge.

 

The same problem of mechanisms that challenged the British loading gauge applied in 0 in the very early years, with the smallest practicable electric mechanisms being pretty chunky. Something called a “boiler motor” was popular for a while, so called because it filled the entire boiler of a main line loco in 0 scale. And, with clockwork there is always a want for space to accommodate a good, long-duration, spring, which factors tempted some (not all) to go for grossly large bodies. Maerklin seem to have been prime offenders in this respect.

 

Steam isn’t an easy motive power to squeeze down to 0 either, so the early ‘scale’ 0 Gauge steamers from the trade, as opposed to hobbyist-watchmakers, tended to look as if they hadn’t been to the gym for a good while, and that was really the case until the first demise of commercial small scale steam.

 

What really took away the ‘mechanism challenge’ was the availability of strong permanent magnets that were somewhere near permanent. That came in the mid 1930s, and the often overlooked genius of Dublo was that it used permanent magnets from the outset; Trix, who were already in the market had saddled themselves with wound-field motors, and a horribly complicated and chunky reverser switch. No longer was the body of a loco in either 4mm or 3.5mm scale stuffed with mechanism; n9 longer were the extra few millimetres of 4mm scale really needed in Britain ........ but it was too late by then, because 4mm had already ‘won’ among amateur builders, and Dublo simply cemented the position.

 

In short, I think the ‘mechanism argument’ was the clincher in the crucial years c1925-38, with ‘front-to-front’ a well-understood contributor.

 

Brilliant video of the Bing Table Railway here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AONqtRFBhtE

 

Kevin

Edited February 7, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Donw]

Mr Kirk,

 

Funnily enough, I’ve just been reading a correspondent in Model Railway Constructor in September 1935 making the very same point, and it’s a good one.

 

By 1935, the argument around 00/H0 had been raging for a good ten years, provoked by the Bing Table Railway, and subsequent use of the mechanisms from that to power ‘scale’ models.

 

A Bing Table Railway loco is stuffed full-to-bursting with mechanism, in both the clockwork and electric versions, and even so represented a miracle of miniturisation at the time, and, of course, Greenly, who had a big hand in the design of it, chose 16mm and nominal 4mm/foot. And, because it used pretty crude tinplate track, which necessitated wide wheels, the ‘front-to-front’ was huge.

 

The same problem of mechanisms that challenged the British loading gauge applied in 0 in the very early years, with the smallest practicable electric mechanisms being pretty chunky. Something called a “boiler motor” was popular for a while, so called because it filled the entire boiler of a main line loco in 0 scale. And, with clockwork there is always a want for space to accommodate a good, long-duration, spring, which factors tempted some (not all) to go for grossly large bodies. Maerklin seem to have been prime offenders in this respect.

 

Steam isn’t an easy motive power to squeeze down to 0 either, so the early ‘scale’ 0 Gauge steamers from the trade, as opposed to hobbyist-watchmakers, tended to look as if they hadn’t been to the gym for a good while, and that was really the case until the first demise of commercial small scale steam.

 

What really took away the ‘mechanism challenge’ was the availability of strong permanent magnets that were somewhere near permanent. That came in the mid 1930s, and the often overlooked genius of Dublo was that it used permanent magnets from the outset; Trix, who were already in the market had saddled themselves with wound-field motors, and a horribly complicated and chunky reverser switch. No longer was the body of a loco in either 4mm or 3.5mm scale stuffed with mechanism; n9 longer were the extra few millimetres of 4mm scale really needed in Britain ........ but it was too late by then, because 4mm had already ‘won’ among amateur builders, and Dublo simply cemented the position.

 

In short, I think the ‘mechanism argument’ was the clincher in the crucial years c1925-38, with ‘front-to-front’ a well-understood contributor.

 

Brilliant video of the Bing Table Railway here

 

Kevin

 

One thing nobody ever comments on is the fact that for an amateur builder 4mm is a much easier scale to use than 3.5mm when your everyday ruler  will have divisions equal to 3 ins you can work down to the nearest inch without too much difficulty. Estimating one third of the millimetre between two divisions beats trying to estimate  0.2916 of a millimetre. I know which I would choose. Of course once scale rules became available the difficulty disappears but when the hobby was trying to get going it would have been a factor.

 

Don

[Nearholmer]

Interesting point.

 

As a person of limited skills, when working in any scale, I find that I can’t accurately cut to anything less than a millimetre anyway, almost irespective of material, so in 4mm scale anything less than 3” wide either got left out or dealt with by eye, unless it was made from wire. In 3.5mm, I was more careful about trying not to make things look lumpen, which is an easy trap to fall into when used to 4mm.

 

16mm is probably my happiest scale, because even quite tiny things are bigger than 1mm, and things need to be robust, otherwise they get damaged by overhanging plants anyway!

[Donw]

Interesting point.

 

As a person of limited skills, when working in any scale, I find that I can’t accurately cut to anything less than a millimetre anyway, almost irespective of material, so in 4mm scale anything less than 3” wide either got left out or dealt with by eye, unless it was made from wire. In 3.5mm, I was more careful about trying not to make things look lumpen, which is an easy trap to fall into when used to 4mm.

 

16mm is probably my happiest scale, because even quite tiny things are bigger than 1mm, and things need to be robust, otherwise they get damaged by overhanging plants anyway!

 

Fortunately my scale rule includes 16mm a scale which has the advantage that not only can you see the pieces but they are big enough to handle whereas in 2mm a chair is impossible to manipulate so I have to thread them onto the rail before cutting them from the sprue. Incidentally for older coarse scale wheels the Peco SM32 track can be better than the Peco 0 gauge stuff.

 

Don

[Nearholmer]

Absolutely. It was one alternative that I considered, and if I ‘down gauge’ the garden circuit, which currently has dog and child proof LGB track, I might go for it, so as to accommodate both scales.

[GRASinBothell]

I thought that one of the key reasons for the under-scale track gauge in OO was the need to obtain adequate clearance between the over-width wheels and cylinders, and for the outside motion (especially considering the extra sideplay needed for the sharp curves in use).

British locos also tended to have their driving wheels covered by splashers, which would need to be made wider to cover over-width wheels, whereas many other countries embraced the "everything on show" approach, thus avoiding that particular problem.

 

Gordon

[Nearholmer]

Yes, which is the point that Mr Kirk,and my man in 1935, were making above. To get sensible clearances in a mass produced toy/model, either the loco housing has to be wide, or the track narrow. The Bing Table Railway incorporates both dodges!

[brianusa]

In DOFOS, why are we fretting about this?  No doubt some of our scale brethren would be concerned but toys are toys and the very reason this topic exists.

 

Brian

[Nearholmer]

Brian,

 

I was wondering myself how we’d got so deep into 00, but it’s all part of the history of model railways, so grist to the mill.

 

Not sure if I’m right, but talking to a fair few modellers, I get the impression that many only have the haziest knowledge of how 00 originated, many not being aware of the Bing Table Railway, the work of early finescalers like Walkley, the fact that Trix were in the market before Hornby Dublo, or the tremendous progress made in the USA in the 1930s.

 

I’ve got a plan to get us back to 0, and specifically clockwork, but duty called today, and is likely to for the next ten days or so.

 

The below should reassure you, and give the more finescale amongst us further cause for concern about whether or not I’m taking things Seriously enough.

 

Kevin

Edited February 8, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Ian Kirk]

Kevin,

Never mind the figures I like the coaches. Santa brought me three of these (2 composites one brake) and a green 0-4-0T Christmas 1952 (or thereabouts I can't remember). I am the Scottish Area Rep. for the Gauge O Guild and as such am expected to  attend some Shows with the Guild recruiting stand. Until I completed "Thrift Drift" ( An O gauge colliery layout in 6ftx2ft - to demonstrate economical O gauge in a small space using RTR stock) I had a little display of four shelves with The Hornby loco and coaches, A Bassett Lowke Royal Scot, A Heljan diesel and some kit built stuff on top. You would be amazed at how many gentlemen "of a certain age" came up to say, "I had one of those". Some even took a photograph! fame at last for my little old loco!

 

best wishes,

 

Ian

 

Whose next recruiting outing will be SEC Glasgow 23,24 and 25 February.  It pays to advertise.

[Nearholmer]

I’m hugely heartened by that, because G0G, or perhaps more correctly some individual members of G0G, can sometimes, in some places, be quite sniffy about “toy trains” as opposed to watchmaker’s art. The current magazine editor seems pretty good on that point, though, allowing contributions from all denominations.

[Donw]

Kevin,

Never mind the figures I like the coaches. Santa brought me three of these (2 composites one brake) and a green 0-4-0T Christmas 1952 (or thereabouts I can't remember). I am the Scottish Area Rep. for the Gauge O Guild and as such am expected to  attend some Shows with the Guild recruiting stand. Until I completed "Thrift Drift" ( An O gauge colliery layout in 6ftx2ft - to demonstrate economical O gauge in a small space using RTR stock) I had a little display of four shelves with The Hornby loco and coaches, A Bassett Lowke Royal Scot, A Heljan diesel and some kit built stuff on top. You would be amazed at how many gentlemen "of a certain age" came up to say, "I had one of those". Some even took a photograph! fame at last for my little old loco!

 

best wishes,

 

Ian

 

Whose next recruiting outing will be SEC Glasgow 23,24 and 25 February.  It pays to advertise.

 

 

I’m hugely heartened by that, because G0G, or perhaps more correctly some individual members of G0G, can sometimes, in some places, be quite sniffy about “toy trains” as opposed to watchmaker’s art. The current magazine editor seems pretty good on that point, though, allowing contributions from all denominations.

 

Ah I wondered if you were Ian Kirk of the coach kits. I myself was editor of the gazette for a while and did manage the trick of pleasing both camps of fine and coarse most of the time.  The trick is too see what there is of value in other approaches and forget your own prejudices. I did find that quite a number of well respected members did rather favour their own prejudices. 

Don

[Annie]

I do like those Hornby LNER coaches, the tinprinting is in very nice condition.  For some reason all the ones I've got are either faded or rusted so much that it's difficult to tell what they were.  They will live again with litho papers of my own devising carefully fitted to them so they aren't a total loss.  As for the very nice collection of Harry Potter figures you have in the photo I just happen to think they are a bit of fun and that's why we play with old tinplate trains afterall.  My layout baseboards are inhabited by Lego 'Friends' figures at the moment which are of course just the tiniest bit larger than 7mm scale, but I happen to like them.  As a former miniature wargamer who used to make their own figures I'm not above modding them a bit too.

 

Just to mention a bit about the smaller scales before returning to matters 'O' gauge; - I did work in British 'S' scale for a while after escaping the awful and drear wastelands of P4 modelling and found it to be a nice scale to work in especially for pre-grouping models which tend to be small and more difficult to model in 4mm scale.  I used RP25 wheels rather than the P4 wheel standards the 'S' Scale Society had adopted as the local availability of New Zealand made 'North Yard' wheels to this standard for 1/64th scale NZR models made this the better proposition.  As an 'Imperial' scale with an easily read ruler I liked 'S' scale, but eventually old fashioned 'O' gauge won out and I wouldn't consider going back to the smaller scales for any reason now.

[Nearholmer]

Aha, Lego figures are often seen on my layout, notably Princess Elsa, who drives the Hall Class, courtesy of my small daughter.

 

The Harry Potter bods are a nod to my son’s interest in the books and films, plus I think they will catch the eye of children when I exhibit Paltry Circus ....... why the maker thinks they need such giant bases, goodness only knows.

 

And the LNER coaches were a very cheap buy from the junk stall at an exhibition. I only wanted one, to put milk van overlays on, but the guy was keen to get rid of them. When I got them home, I realised that they aren’t as bad as I thought, and they run OK ...... so they will probably stay as they are.

[Annie]

This is my own litho overlayed ex-LSWR milk van that I put together sometime ago from a very down on its luck Hornby 4 wheeler.  Please excuse the terrible photo as my cellphone is very old and the camera side of it is not up to much.  Edward is one of my toy dollhouse people conversions I made for my 1/16th scale narrow gauge trains and he helps me out with things about the place.

 

I'm not sure who made the overlays I used, but they were on the HRCA spares list I had at the time.

 

[Nearholmer]

Bruce Palmer and Jon Davies sell them, but I’d have to check to find who drew the artwork. That is exactly the conversion I was looking to do.

 

Looks very good, so I need to identify my worst coach and go for it.

 

Did you seal it with anything after ‘wallpapering’ it?

[Annie]

All my paper and card models and lithos get sealed Kevin or else they wouldn't last the distance.  From memory this one was done with several coats of semi-matt polyurethane varnish and even though it's now a good decade since it was done and has survived a house move and being in storage for 5 years, it looks just as good as when I first did it.  I do have some other sheets by the same maker stashed away somewhere and if I find them I'll post the details.

 

This is another of the lithos by the same maker that I got all clever with and used as the basis for a PO wagon.  Castings for the wagon came from the long departed and much missed 'Home of 'O' Gauge' which used to be my 'go-to' source for things 'O' gauge until they finally closed down.

 

[GRASinBothell]

Yes, the surf boards that the Nano Metalfigs stand on are a bit odd, but if you paint them to match where they're standing, it's not too bad. Some of them seem to stand with their legs very wide apart, which makes cutting down the surf board a bit difficult.

 

Gordon

[Nearholmer]

Ah, the guilty man!

 

It was you that put me onto these.

 

I foresee sawing and filing, then painting, but it’s about number one hundred on my list of ten things to do.

[Metropolitan H]

All my paper and card models and lithos get sealed Kevin or else they wouldn't last the distance.  From memory this one was done with several coats of semi-matt polyurethane varnish and even though it's now a good decade since it was done and has survived a house move and being in storage for 5 years, it looks just as good as when I first did it.....................

 

.................. came from the long departed and much missed 'Home of 'O' Gauge' which used to be my 'go-to' source for things 'O' gauge until they finally closed down.

Annie,

 

That is very useful, regarding the use of the polyurethane varnish do you varnish before or only after application? Also what do you use to fix the overlays with? - Spray adhesive / double-sided sticky tape / wall-paper paste?.

 

I think I know my preferred methods, but would like to get more advice from others.

 

Also your post has brought back memories of visiting "Home of "0"  Gauge" by Raynes Park station - marvellous place. The trains I used to get there were mainly the older "Slam-door" variety, so it was a few years back.

 

Regards

Chris H

[GRASinBothell]

Kevin,

I was wondering whether your acquisition was before or after my posting, so I have the answer. Glad the suggestion was useful.

Until my acquisition of several at Christmas, I only had a couple of Harry Potter figures, but I found that at exhibitions those were what the children gravitated to (well, that and the dinosaur figures, but the less said about them the better!).

Gordon

[Annie]

Annie,

 

That is very useful, regarding the use of the polyurethane varnish do you varnish before or only after application? Also what do you use to fix the overlays with? - Spray adhesive / double-sided sticky tape / wall-paper paste?.

 

I think I know my preferred methods, but would like to get more advice from others.

 

Also your post has brought back memories of visiting "Home of "0"  Gauge" by Raynes Park station - marvellous place. The trains I used to get there were mainly the older "Slam-door" variety, so it was a few years back.

 

Regards

Chris H

I use a good quality waterproof PVA to attach my lithos and it seems to have lasted the distance Ok.  I don't varnish the lithos before fitting them, but I do give them several coats afterwards paying particular attention to corners and edges.  I stripped down a sad old coach I'd bought once that'd had lithos attached with epoxy resin, but the epoxy hadn't been smoothed out properly leaving all kinds of ridges and lumps.  It took some cleaning up before I fitted it up with a Midland brake third litho of my own devising using good quality PVA.  I don't know if epoxy could be made to work, but after what I saw with that old coach I'm not game to try it.

I did sell some of my coach lithos to New Zealand HRCA members and one chap asked me to print them on A4 sticky label sheets instead of photo paper and he seemed to be quite happy with the result.  I don't know how long they might have stayed in place though.  I lost a lot of my litho files in a hard drive crash, but I still have this one which I used to give away as a freebee.  From memory if you print it to fit an A4 page it will be the right size.

 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Annie

[Graham456]

Kevin,

Never mind the figures I like the coaches. Santa brought me three of these (2 composites one brake) and a green 0-4-0T Christmas 1952

best wishes,

Ian

Whose next recruiting outing will be SEC Glasgow 23,24 and 25 February. It pays to advertise.

SO is it these coaches that lead you into Modeling LNER stuff?

Which in turn lead to you producing the coach kits?

Which in turn lead to me spending a frustratingly long seven years painting,stripping,painting,striping,painting ditto ditto

Until I could paint teak,,the same year as Hornby brought out their new version even going so far as to number some of theirs with the same numbers!

Still at least I did a good enough job that mine/Ian's can run in the same rake! As the Hornby

 

Now as for you being at the SEC ..shame it's so far to Glasgow from down by the west Somerset railway I could get to see what you look like out of the flying suit and mask!

Edited February 9, 2018 by Graham456

[Annie]

Bruce Palmer and Jon Davies sell them, but I’d have to check to find who drew the artwork. That is exactly the conversion I was looking to do.

 

Looks very good, so I need to identify my worst coach and go for it.

 

Did you seal it with anything after ‘wallpapering’ it?

I had a look at the milk van and the open wagon and they both carry a 'RM" trademark in a little black panel just above the couplings.  I haven't found the rest of the lithos with the makers name on the sheets yet, but I did find my original Milsbro open wagon lithos (sooo precious) so perhaps it wasn't a completely wasted exercise.

[Ian Kirk]

SO is it these coaches that lead you into Modeling LNER stuff?

Which in turn lead to you producing the coach kits?

Which in turn lead to me spending a frustratingly long seven years painting,stripping,painting,striping,painting ditto ditto

Until I could paint teak,,the same year as Hornby brought out their new version even going so far as to number some of theirs with the same numbers!

Still at least I did a good enough job that mine/Ian's can run in the same rake! As the Hornby

 

Now as for you being at the SEC ..shame it's so far to Glasgow from down by the west Somerset railway I could get to see what you look like out of the flying suit and mask!

I think possibly it did. That and having been brought up living near the Edinburgh Aberdeen Main line at a time that Gresley coaches were still in use. Over the years most of my personal modelling has been ex LNER orientated and that undoubtedly influenced my choice of prototypes once I was making kits for a living. My O gauge range that I still produce in my semi-retirement has a lot of LNER types.

I am now getting to an age where I think I probably look better with the mask on!

 

best wishes,

 

Ian