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Buy & Sell to CLOSE





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#26 Neil

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 20:18

..... the problems of the old classifieds; those who thought it was good weren't the ones trying to sort it out and protect people when transactions went bad. ....

 

There's a temptation to view all sorts of classified ads as nothing more than a souped up version of the postcard in the newsagents window. I don't know if it's regulations/stautes, the ethics of the team involved or more likely both that

drives the need to 'protect people when transactions go bad' but I guess that most of us (me included) hadn't considered this. I'll hazard a guess that this simple phrase masks a whole lot of effort, grief and agro in making sure transactions happen in a smooth and safe manner.





#27 Andy Y

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 21:55

There's a temptation to view all sorts of classified ads as nothing more than a souped up version of the postcard in the newsagents window. I don't know if it's regulations/stautes, the ethics of the team involved or more likely both that

drives the need to 'protect people when transactions go bad' but I guess that most of us (me included) hadn't considered this. I'll hazard a guess that this simple phrase masks a whole lot of effort, grief and agro in making sure transactions happen in a smooth and safe manner.

 

Although part of a commercial media this is still a community and although there's no legal obligation to police transactions it was only right to assist anyone having difficulties. With the old system an opportunist seller may come in, rack up a few posts and then advertise goods for sale (we saw that often enough); in most cases items would be supplied but occasionally they may not and the old system did not have enough failsafes in place to ensure that someone not supplying items paid for, or not paying for items bought could be traced. Buy & Sell had those failsafes and there were only very, very isolated cases of non-payment and no cases of goods not being supplied. Although a feedback facility was latterly built into the classifieds most people didn't use it. Such a system isn't good for a community where a lot is done in the name of shared interests and on trust. That's why it would really annoy me when people demanded the return of the old Classifieds.

 

Most newsagents won't assist if you buy a dodgy Allegro from the bloke with a mobile number on the card in the window. ;)

 

I am looking at solutions which, if successful under testing, strike a sensible balance but if anyone expects it to be a free of charge environment without safeguards then I don't want to go there.


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#28 ian

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 22:46

...if you buy a dodgy Allegro ...

 

Was there any other sort?


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#29 MarshLane

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 01:00

I think there is one very significant MAJOR problem with all of these kind of systems, that being that "you cannot please all of the people all of the time".  

 

I've used eBay, it works, its known, its good - but there are things there at infuriate me!  I never used the classifieds on here, and did look at B/S but couldn't quite work it out - in all honesty though that was down to me not spending the time to work it out, not a failing of the system or rmWeb.

 

Im not trying to defend anyone here - or start an argument, but everyone needs to accept that no matter what Andy and the team come up with, some will like it, some will detest it, and some will sit in the middle.  Its a fact of life.  Therefore they need to go with whatever treads that fine line between working for rmWeb as a business/service, and working for the users.  Personally I agree with Andy's comments - if there is going to be some system there for us then yes it should be reliable and easy to use, but it also needs to be safe for both/all parties, and I expect it to have a fee involved - remember we don't pay for rmWeb, but just because its free to us, doesn't mean its free to run - technology ALWAYS comes at cost, be it servers, software, updates and thats before the human element. Many people don't know or don't understand that there is always a cost involved somewhere.

 

From the sounds of it, a sensible decision has been made - its been tried, what was put forward did not work (for whatever reason(s)), so its time to move on.  For those who want to know all about the new system, lets take a breath, give the guys sometime and have some of that stuff called patience ... it was in abundance years ago, but appears to have all but vanished in this day and age!


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#30 Richard Lee

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 06:49

Buy and Sell sounded as if it could have been a reasonable idea.  When it started, I did try looking for some things that I was interested in.  Either there was very little on offer, or the search function didn't work well enough for me to be able to use it easily.  Other posts on the forum strongly suggested that there were many items on offer that hadn't been visible to me.  Once I find that a website doesn't work or is difficult to use, I tend not to visit it.  Unless I know that they have something that I can't get elsewhere, I don't bother with such sites.  Life is too short.

 

I didn't like to add my voice to the criticisms at the time Buy and Sell came out because others had said what I wanted to say, and it seemed that Andy Y was strongly emotionally committed to it.  It seemed to me that some of his reactions to criticisms of 'Buy and Sell' would have been appropriate to personal criticisms, had they been made.  What I am trying to say is that if users criticise something like 'Buy and Sell', it may be because they are a bunch of Luddites with axes to grind.  On the other hand, they might just be telling uncomfortable truths that need to be addressed rapidly for the facility to be successful.


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#31 Dave47549

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:51

Buy and Sell sounded as if it could have been a reasonable idea.  When it started, I did try looking for some things that I was interested in.  Either there was very little on offer, or the search function didn't work well enough for me to be able to use it easily.  Other posts on the forum strongly suggested that there were many items on offer that hadn't been visible to me.  Once I find that a website doesn't work or is difficult to use, I tend not to visit it.  Unless I know that they have something that I can't get elsewhere, I don't bother with such sites.  Life is too short.

 

I didn't like to add my voice to the criticisms at the time Buy and Sell came out because others had said what I wanted to say, and it seemed that Andy Y was strongly emotionally committed to it.  It seemed to me that some of his reactions to criticisms of 'Buy and Sell' would have been appropriate to personal criticisms, had they been made.  What I am trying to say is that if users criticise something like 'Buy and Sell', it may be because they are a bunch of Luddites with axes to grind.  On the other hand, they might just be telling uncomfortable truths that need to be addressed rapidly for the facility to be successful.

 

Absolutely the best post so far.

 

If only B/S was fit for purpose. Trouble is, how do you disagree with the boss on something so flawed as B/S? It's less hassle to keep schtum & admire the Emperors new clothes? I wish I had done so now.


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#32 Stubby47

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 08:02

Saying something is crap doesn't help anyone.

Say where it doesn't work, say why it doesn't work, explain what you were trying to do - at least give someone a chance to replicate the fault then try to solve it.

Being wholly negative is just, well, negative.


Edited by Stubby47, 28 February 2017 - 08:57 .

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#33 muddys-blues

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 09:03

I would happily like to see something simpler again like the classifieds, I would happily pay an administration or scheme fee to be a part of the new classifieds system.

In all my years of buying and selling via various forums I have only ever had one real problem, and that was of my own doing by not ensuring I had packed something securely, and gladly we came to an amicable settlement on discount.

I have bought and sold by both classifieds and B&S and never had any issues, obviously the RMWeb forum has more traffic than most other railway forums, so it goes without saying more traffic, more people and inevitably that means more chance of having some unscrupulous people or dealing with some real door handle of a person.

I have bought and sold on both Western Thunder and the Gauge 0 Guild and never had an issue.

Unfortunately no matter which walk of life we are in there will always be a very very small % of people who will be dishonourable that is their human nature, so I think this is the main crux that we have to try and wheedle out, so may I suggest a suggestions page so people can voice ideas, and ideas alone, not go to far off topic with stories of yesteryear.

May be if we get an idea of what the masses want and how we administer it, this can help us all go forward in having a place where we can buy and sell our railway wares, after all I would rather see any fees I paid go towards keeping this forum going than giving it to eBay.

Best regards
Craig

Edited by muddys-blues, 28 February 2017 - 09:05 .

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#34 'CHARD

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 09:07

Anyone want to buy a Classifieds Section?


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#35 Dave47549

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 10:45

Saying something is crap doesn't help anyone.

Say where it doesn't work, say why it doesn't work, explain what you were trying to do - at least give someone a chance to replicate the fault then try to solve it.

Being wholly negative is just, well, negative.

 

Been there, got T-shirt etc. A paraphrase of a first experience, as previously reported:

 

Search for Lima 31 = nothing

Search for Lima = nothing

Search for 31 = nothing

Not a problem. Except when someone says they've listed such an item & can provide a direct link.

 

You mentioned noticing fundamental gaffes in that area in beta testing further up this thread. The problem's long been identified as the software, NOT the boss who implemented it. Regardless of my preference, a fully functioning ebay clone would be / have been beneficial to RMweb.

 

I've not set out to be negative or out to piss Andy off for the fun of it, the bad feeling's just not worth it. I'd prefer my input to be helping in some tiny way at an RMweb event, or chucking a couple of quid in the pot, I can't do either of those at present so I'll give it a rest from now. Sorry.


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#36 BG John

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 11:06

Is there a reason why it's closing before an alternative is found, and ready to launch? It seems as though there will be a long period with no facility at all.

 

I was planning to try selling a couple of items, one of which I'm a bit nervous about putting on eBay, as it's expensive, and I've almost no experience of selling on eBay. B&S seemed a good place to try, and if no one finds it because of flaws in the search system, it's not the end of the world. I don't think I can even get eBay experience by selling cheap stuff first, as I have this burning desire to find ways to use up all my surplus stuff! These items are too valuable to do this with though, and I have a use for money they'll raise.


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#37 Chris116

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 11:15

A short time after this topic appeared I saw that a Bachmann class 108 DMU was for sale that had originally been weathered and used on Tetley Mills by the late Dave Shakespeare. I ordered it immediately and this morning got the best packed model railway item I have ever received. I am so glad Buy and Sell did not close a week earlier!
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#38 JJGraphics

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 15:33

I'm not going to enter into the general fray on this thread as I think enough has been said already . . . but I'd like to make a suggestion:

If anyone has thought about the replacement for B&S and seriously thinks they have a good idea, why not PM Andy and set out the idea in detail? Whilst there may be difficulties of some kind with a particular idea, it just might help to form the basis for a future offering and it is surely better to make suggestions privately than in an open forum.

#39 Barnaby

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 15:56

I asked myself the same question that BG John asked:>>>   Is there a reason why it's closing before an alternative is found, and ready to launch? It seems as though there will be a long period with no facility at all.

It makes me think there is/was a more serious problem behind this action.

 

For me trying to use the B&S was too cumbersome where as I have used Western Thunder, Gauge 0 and other none railway sites for sales & purchases and not yet had a problem, maybe I have been lucky.

 

Still the best Railway Forum by far.

 

Regards



#40 chris p bacon

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 18:41

I asked myself the same question that BG John asked:>>>   Is there a reason why it's closing before an alternative is found, and ready to launch? It seems as though there will be a long period with no facility at all.

It makes me think there is/was a more serious problem behind this action.

I look at it this way. 

 

There is only 24 hours in the day,  and having to run an existing facility you're not happy with and put together an alternative has to be time consuming. On top of this there's the day job of running the forum and dealing with the usual frothing.

 

Is it a big deal if there is no facility for a while?   I remember when the classifieds were closed and there was a poster lamenting their loss even though he had only been a member for 2 weeks.

 

For me this is a forum with some excellent info and ideas and the classifieds/B&S are secondary.


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#41 Andy Y

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 18:55

 

It makes me think there is/was a more serious problem behind this action.

 

 

No problem in that context and it's not helpful to make uninformed speculation as such. Business decisions may have to take several things including contractual issues into account and forthcoming costs.


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#42 Ian J.

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 21:02

Seems a shame B&S couldn't really get off the ground. Perhaps it's one of those things that needs to be a bit more 'bespoke' to get it to be accepted by the community.



#43 RANGERS

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 21:03

Sorry that B&S wasn't a success but the bottom line is it was cumbersome to use and although I bought several items listed on there, it wasn't a seamless process and it didn't progress the old classifieds to the next level, which it should have done. As such, the opportunity for it to become the first stop for buyers and sellers was lost, a bit of a shame really.

 

As for the classifieds, it was a great thing for its time, I bought and sold items on there and only once had an issue which was entirely of my own making. Things move on of course  and whereas the classi's were fine as an add-on to a site which barely covered its costs and relied on volunteers and Andy's efforts to keep it running, the landscape for RMWeb is very different now and whilst we all enjoy it, we have to accept it has to be paid for somehow so I'm not certain a return to the classi's is the answer (Although I'd be delighted if it was!)

 

Its not too late mind, Ebay isn't perfect but it is easier to use and if there's something similar which is more appealing and user friendly, the opportunity is still open. So theres the cue for "Son of B&S"


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#44 Kelly

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 13:33

I never found anything on it at a price point that was competitive enough. But also found it a bit too complicated to find stuff.

A classified section only works with good enforcement and monitoring of the postings. another forum I have have it so you have to be given access to it, but also have to have posted a certain number of posts to be considered.

They also have a feedback system that links to your account, if you get too many complaints you get booted and banned from the site.

The problems come in ensuring people don't get ripped off by the shady types of people who will try their luck on any forum classifieds type thing. It can be very difficult to maintain. Enforcing all transactions going through PayPal makes it in theory safer for the buyers, but that isn't to everyone's liking.
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#45 martin_wynne

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 14:53

For sale, Bachby Castle. GWR apple green livery, no chimney, poor runner, one driving wheel missing, realistically weathered  with a tar brush,  tatty dog eared replacement box

 

Forgot to mention. The dog was chewing it. When I tried to get it off him, the bit with the wheels on fell out and I accidentally trod on it.


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#46 Kris

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 16:52

Shame that it hasn't worked out, the purchases I made on it were good. However as has been said it was not easy to use when it came to finding things.


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#47 Enterprisingwestern

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 17:57

.

 

We are already looking at other ways for the RMweb community to buy & sell products. Andy York will be instrumental in ensuring that we make the right decision for the community. We will announce more in the future.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As Steve has said I am looking at future options (but they won't be available for a while) for something that's good for members.

 

If you think we're all traipsing down to Stafford market to find your stall Andy, you've got another think coming!

 

Mike.


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#48 Andy Y

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 18:10

Your loss. ;)


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#49 Enterprisingwestern

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 18:18

Your loss. ;)

 

Ryanair might be a bargain transporter, but there are limits!

 

Mike.



#50 Andy Y

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 18:22

They probably fly to Seighford Aerodrome but tell everyone it's Manchester.

 

Seighford_Airport_Terminal_in_Decline.jp


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