KingsCrossSuburban Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Episode 1, 6th March, 9pm on Channel 5. Similar to the earlier series. I'm not sure how many episodes there are in this series. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted February 28, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2017 A lot of these make me want to put my foot through the telly! There was one about East coast and some idiot boil in the bag driver banging on about his view from his office window. An HST cab, and saying he'd do the job for nothing! Well the pay you now earn has been fought for over many years so if you have thoughts like that keep them to yourself not blurt them out on national TV Sorry for the rant but it really got to me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Jackson Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 I'm very much looking forward to this, i personally love these sort of programs, I don't know but I think it might be the over dramatic scenarios that keep me interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted February 28, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2017 There was another with some guard on virgin saying how exciting it was as he was doing a rotational test.... He was going to watch a bloody wheel going round!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted February 28, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 28, 2017 A lot of these make me want to put my foot through the telly! There was one about East coast and some idiot boil in the bag driver banging on about his view from his office window. An HST cab, and saying he'd do the job for nothing! Well the pay you now earn has been fought for over many years so if you have thoughts like that keep them to yourself not blurt them out on national TV Sorry for the rant but it really got to me! What's wrong with turning round and saying to someone you love your job. No sane adult would really believe such a person literally would do their 'job' (as opposed to say voluntary work like driving on a heritage railway) for free. What such a statement actually says is they find their workplace a very enjoyable one and there is no other job they would rather do. It's got nothing to do with previous battles over pay and trying to sugest it is smacks of jelliousy. It's a fact that for lots of people, the job they end up doing is not what interests them, it's what they get forced into by circumstance, the need to bring in a certain salary or because of genuine confusion over what they want to do in life. Those of us who are lucky enough to like our jobs should be respected - not subject to bitterness and suggestions that we should hide our emotions. However, to return to the C5 TV series, I do recall there was one episode that was far too full of some manager being overly pleased over some sort of triviality - but the rest of the series was fortunately much better overall with lots of interesting things featured. I hope this new series will be more of the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted February 28, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2017 You know what I mean Phil you work on the railway. I most of the time enjoy my job and after 14 months of sickness not knowing if I would ever return to work my first driving shift after returning was quite emotional but I wouldn't go on TV and say I'd do it for nothing. I would think you would get some stick from your workmates if you went on TV saying you'd do the job for nothing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted February 28, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 28, 2017 You know what I mean Phil you work on the railway. I most of the time enjoy my job and after 14 months of sickness not knowing if I would ever return to work my first driving shift after returning was quite emotional but I wouldn't go on TV and say I'd do it for nothing. I would think you would get some stick from your workmates if you went on TV saying you'd do the job for nothing Its nice to hear you like what you do - and thats the point, just as people differ in personalties so does how people may wish to express that fact. You prefer not to make a big deal about it - fair enough, thats the position most take after all, but others with a more extrovert personality may wish to be more public about expressing their feelings. I don't doubt the driver in question didn't get some stick over being featured on TV or anything the driver might have said on camera, that comes with the territory so to speak - and I freely accept that not everyone likes being 'on camera' (either literally in this case, or say being highlighted in internal briefings). However just because you would not do it (and for the record, I would not do it either) doesn't mean we should ascribe anything sinister to displays of enthusiasm as displayed by the driver featured in the series. As long as the enthusiasm is genuine (rather than being imposed by management or artificially staged) then its simply nice to hear of others within the industry that like their job. After all its not as if the average C5 viewers first reaction is going to be to say "great we can slash ticket prices by not paying staff if they like the job so much" (particularly if the programme does its job well and illustrates the complexities of the job - as far is possible to a layman) are they? Most viewers would probably wish the person well happy that they are happy, although not perhaps without a tinge of jealously (in as much as they wish they could be that enthusiastic over their job). So far C5s approch to their 'fly on the wall' railway documentaries has generally been pretty good - which hopefully will continue with this latest set of programmes. If its not then I'm sure the good folk of RMWeb will be only too willing to say so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Wasn't the driver in one of the shots in the programme trailer rolling a ciggie whilst under way? I hope I was mistaken! I'm not particularly enthused about these industrial fly-on-the-wall series, but I'll give it a go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Wasn't the driver in one of the shots in the programme trailer rolling a ciggie whilst under way? I hope I was mistaken! I'm not particularly enthused about these industrial fly-on-the-wall series, but I'll give it a go. It certainly looked like it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted February 28, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 28, 2017 Wasn't the driver in one of the shots in the programme trailer rolling a ciggie whilst under way? I hope I was mistaken! I'm not particularly enthused about these industrial fly-on-the-wall series, but I'll give it a go. And? There is no law against rolling tobacco inside a workplace (as opposed to smoking it) - and unlike a road vehicle you don't have to steer a train. Yes it might not be good from a sanitised 'PR' perspective but these are real people, with real flaws* not actors. As such I see no issue in principle, providing such an activity is not actually affecting their ability to driver - for which we need our driver members on the forum to comment. As for the fly on the wall documentaries - if done well they provide a valuable insight to the public just how complicated the railway is. For example to a railwayman or an enthusiast, doing a rotational test may not seem newsworthy - but to the public whose only interaction with trains is the daily commute - showing that happening might mean they have more of an appreciation of the difficulties the next time their train develops (or is delayed by) brake problem on the way to work. * I say that simply because we have been told for over 50 years now smoking is bad for your (and other peoples health) yet people outside of TV / advert land still do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted February 28, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2017 Well when I was a secondman there were lots of drivers that would roll a fag whilst driving, but these chaps were real railwaymen not some idiot that has come to the industry becouse it now pays decent money. You could trust these old boys 100% and I learned my trade from them. You don't find a boil in the bag as post 88 men are known in the industry , controlling a heavy class 9 (unbraked freight) down a hill or running at line speed in thick fog . When I joined the railway at 16 I knew the pay was crap but I wanted to be a driver and a railwayman There is no such thing as a railwayman today, it's run by fools Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 And? There is no law against rolling tobacco inside a workplace (as opposed to smoking it) - and unlike a road vehicle you don't have to steer a train. Yes it might not be good from a sanitised 'PR perspective but these are real people, with real flaws* not actors. As such I see no issue in principle, providing such an activity is not actually affecting their ability to driver - for which we need our driver members on the forum to comment. As for the fly on the wall documentaries - if done well they provide a valuable insight to the public just how complicated the railway is. For example to a railwayman or an enthusiast, doing a rotational test may not seem newsworthy - but to the public whose only interaction with trains is the daily commute - showing that happening might mean they have more of an appreciation of the difficulties the next time their train develops (or is delayed by) brake problem on the way to work. * I say that simply because we have been told for over 50 years now smoking is bad for your (and other peoples health) yet people outside of TV / advert land still do it. Merely that "the general public" may not really have a real appreciation that trains don't have to be steered, but they might have the opinion that someone conducting a train full of customers at a fair lick ought to be paying attention to whats going on outside the cab. If he was rolling a ciggie, that was my concern, not that he was going to consume a cancer stick in or out of the cab. I was just wondering if I had misinterpreted the brief scene. After all, he might have had a biro/pencil/whatever between his fingers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2017 It doesn't matter what the bloke may have being doing I bet a fair amount of people on here were commuting before 93 on trains with no headlights driven by a bloke who would roll a fag and be driving ,as I have on the noise of the rails but we knew exactly where we were. But we got you home most of the time on time, and when it came to pay day we got crap money It been a paradox for a while now, although we get a reasonable wage now the job has had the skill factor removed because the new intake doesn't have the experience Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted March 1, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 1, 2017 Merely that "the general public" may not really have a real appreciation that trains don't have to be steered, but they might have the opinion that someone conducting a train full of customers at a fair lick ought to be paying attention to whats going on outside the cab. If he was rolling a ciggie, that was my concern, not that he was going to consume a cancer stick in or out of the cab. I was just wondering if I had misinterpreted the brief scene. After all, he might have had a biro/pencil/whatever between his fingers. Again how do you know they weren't? We provide trains with a comprehensive signalling system precisely because there is very little a driver can do if he / she spots something of concern outside the cab. Yes in some areas / weather conditions looking for signals or alternatively the need to exercise tight control over the brakes due to the gradient might well come into play - but that is what route knowledge is for, to make sure the driver is prepared for situations where grater concentration is needed. In principle its no different to driving a car - there are times when you can flick through the radio stations on your car or have conversations with other passengers and there are times when all your concentration needs to be on driving due to complex road layouts, congestion, lots of pedestrians or weather conditions. A competent driver will asses the level of concentration required and adjust their behaviour accordingly. Trains are no different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2017 They should show boil in the bag sending a text! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted March 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2017 Well when I was a secondman there were lots of drivers that would roll a fag whilst driving, but these chaps were real railwaymen not some idiot that has come to the industry becouse it now pays decent money. You could trust these old boys 100% and I learned my trade from them. You don't find a boil in the bag as post 88 men are known in the industry , controlling a heavy class 9 (unbraked freight) down a hill or running at line speed in thick fog . When I joined the railway at 16 I knew the pay was crap but I wanted to be a driver and a railwayman There is no such thing as a railwayman today, it's run by fools That is a very sad and condescending attitude towards people who are quite possibly as dedicated, if not more so in their job, as you say you are. I certainly remember being with drivers in the 70's who's attitude towards passenger safety or the job was not paramount in their mind. Sticks for the dead mans handle, ignoring speed restrictions, failing locomotives to p*ss off "Management". They weren't the glory days of railwaymen, but times that are best left in the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2017 They should show boil in the bag sending a text! Regrettably the availability of mobile 'phones but more particularly things like txting and other online activities has become a rising factor among 'distraction' SPADs - in my view the thing should be banned from being carried in driving cabs or at the very least Drivers should be told not to get them out of their bags while in the cab. I have mixed views about the way so seemingly simplistic things can be presented in documentaries and alas things can all too easily be misrepresented as part of the process of trying to make them attractive to viewers in a way which longer served railwaymen can find irritating - but in reality there's not much we can do about it. And Dave ('Chris P Bacon') makes a good point that there were some 'right ones' about in the days before 'boil in the bag' Drivers (and a number of other grades of similar inexperience) - one of my Drivers simply bailed out and left his Secondman in charge of an engine part way through their turn and he was no way a 'boil in the bag' merchant having a 1960s date, similarly another one spent most of his time moaning about just about anything including spotting wagons on a weighbridge with a 350 (08 for younger readers) until I got so fed up with him I showed him how to do it - which definitely shut him up. So good & bad in days gone by - no doubt of that although i do agree that many coming into the industry now have little or no chance to be given basic and wide experience before being thrown in at the deep end (and that's not just Drivers) and there at times when that lack of experience shows all too plainly. But we also have to face the simple fact that the industry has changed greatly and while I have considerable misgivings about the standard of route knowledge assessment and control on the part of some operators we also mustn't forget that some of the way trains used to have to be worked are now history and no longer relevant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I too find the dismissal of new and therefore inexperienced staff as 'boil in the bags' condescending in the extreme. Every one of us who work or worked on the railway (and there are many here on RMWeb) started out with no experience and probably little knowledge of the job, gaining both as our careers progressed. No doubt I was a 'boil in the bag' booking clerk when I joined BR in 1978, and then a 'boil in the bag' Controller when my career path changed in 1984, but I was treated correctly by my older and far more knowledgeable colleagues and through them I learned the job, just as they themselves had. As a result, when I myself became a more senior member of staff I regarded it as my duty to assist the newer railwaymen and women, not to dismiss and mock them. And the comment about 'There is no such thing as a railwayman today, it's run by fools' does not in any way, shape or form describe the people I worked with on the railway until I retired last year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Ah, the standard traincrew response to everything. "Good morning driver." "What's f-ing good about it ?" Your early boil in the bags now have 30 years experience. Do you think they might have got the hang of it by now ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Merely that "the general public" may not really have a real appreciation that trains don't have to be steered, but they might have the opinion that someone conducting a train full of customers at a fair lick ought to be paying attention to whats going on outside the cab. If he was rolling a ciggie, that was my concern, not that he was going to consume a cancer stick in or out of the cab. I was just wondering if I had misinterpreted the brief scene. After all, he might have had a biro/pencil/whatever between his fingers. I suspect that most of the general public who get upset at someone rolling a fag in the cab, may be those who think nothing of talking on their mobiles while driving their cars. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rab Posted March 1, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 1, 2017 Could this be some sort of record. The programme referred to in the OP hasn't even been shown yet and we're up to 20 posts already Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2017 Ah, the standard traincrew response to everything."Good morning driver.""What's f-ing good about it ?"Your early boil in the bags now have 30 years experience. Do you think they might have got the hang of it by now ? Some of them might have! I hadn't thought of that until you mentioned it. But yes September 1988 ,the traincrew concept and the end of MP12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Western Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Well when I was a secondman there were lots of drivers that would roll a fag whilst driving, but these chaps were real railwaymen not some idiot that has come to the industry becouse it now pays decent money. You could trust these old boys 100% and I learned my trade from them. You don't find a boil in the bag as post 88 men are known in the industry , controlling a heavy class 9 (unbraked freight) down a hill or running at line speed in thick fog . When I joined the railway at 16 I knew the pay was crap but I wanted to be a driver and a railwayman There is no such thing as a railwayman today, it's run by fools Thanks for casting us all to the side like rubbish on the bottom of your shoe ! I'm a fourth generation railwaymen, I love my job and when I started at the tender age of 20 the money was crap, but hard work has now seen my salary rise to a very comfortable level for someone with the entry level education I have. All this rubbish dribble about post 88 people not being railwaymen is quite frankly disrespect poo. You make yourself sound like a bitter and twisted fool, I totally agree with you that we have many people (especially in the driving grade) who are solely in it for the money, and wouldn't have touched the job back when my old man started (pre 88, we'll pre 70 really). I've learnt a huge amount from the senior blokes over the years, however the likes of you it seems wouldn't piss on us post 88 men if we were in fire, let alone pass on your experiences. God forbid we eve became better than you, maybe that's why your so anti 88? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Well when I was a secondman there were lots of drivers that would roll a fag whilst driving... Starting as a secondman in 1984, I soon learnt the two most important aspects to the job. "Make the tea, lad" and "Empty the ashtray". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2017 I didn't say post 88 men aren't railwaymen, far from it. What I meant was that the railways now are not run by railwaymen. There was never any bad feelings to post 88 men it wasn't their fault the line of promotion changed and the term boil in the bag was just friendly P taking at the time. Your absolutely right about when we started the money was crap but like me you wanted to do the job. The downside of the decent pay is that it's attracted all sorts of people to the job and it's these that are not railwaymen. You'll have come across them the type that deliberately refuse to use railway terms and consider us something off their shoes because we joined a company they hate. There are still people joining the industry that are fine railwaymen some of my best friends fall into this category I'm sorry if my posting was misleading and caused offence Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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